PD-TDI (2004+) Oil Info & Analyses (Post #1 = FAQ)

No clue

Its a PD Passat...that's all I know...so I'm guessing 2.0? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Results of oil sample, November 27, 2005. 4550 miles, Castrol 505.01. 97219 total miles.
The short turn around on the oil was due to the first OA of 230ppm of Iron. This sample was taken using oil sample pump.


Aluminum 6
Calcium 3169
Chromium 1
Copper 3
Iron 47
Lead 1
Magnesium 42
Molybdenum 2
Nickel 1
Phosphorus 862
Potassium 2
Silicon 3
Sodium 2
Tin 0
Vanadium 0
Zinc 1099

Water, Antifreeze, and Fuel all negitive. V100 is 13.0

Oil installed during this sample/oil change was Elf 507.

I have about 2.5k miles left before I have 10k on my 507.00 oil. As soon as I hit 10k on the oil, i'll pull a sample to send to the lab.

thermographer said:

Results of oil sample, November 27, 2005. 4550 miles, Castrol 505.01. 97219 total miles.
The short turn around on the oil was due to the first OA of 230ppm of Iron. This sample was taken using oil sample pump.


Aluminum 6
Calcium 3169
Chromium 1
Copper 3
Iron 47
Lead 1
Magnesium 42
Molybdenum 2
Nickel 1
Phosphorus 862
Potassium 2
Silicon 3
Sodium 2
Tin 0
Vanadium 0
Zinc 1099

Water, Antifreeze, and Fuel all negitive. V100 is 13.0

Oil installed during this sample/oil change was Elf 507.

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This is kinda what I was looking for the Castrol 505.01. However, not sure what all these numbers mean. Does it look like this stuff will hold up for 10K miles? (BTW, didn't feel like sifting through the other 20 pages....and you wouldn't either.)

dhdenny, one thing to note is that I have 99K on the engine, so my wear metals may be different then what others are seeing.

If you look on page 17 of this thread, post #247, you'll see what my first OA gave me, trouble sleeping.
At the time, Sunrg predicted that I was going to have 42ppm of iron as inherited contaminants on this OA. (Post #249). Good job on that prediction.

I would suggest not waiting till 90K miles to do the oil analysis, IMHO. Sunrg's post on page 1 of this thread provides links as to the breakdown of the numbers that you see on the OA's.

Thanks for the reply. I only have about 5800 miles on my car total so my wear metals would naturally be much higher. I just wanted to make sure that the Castrol could hang on for the 10K interval once I get the next change at 10K miles. I am considering switching to Bardahl XTC 5w40. It's VW 505.01 compliant and says it's 100% synthetic. I can save over $0.50 a liter if I count the tax I would pay at the dealership.

dhdenney said:

Thanks for the reply. I only have about 5800 miles on my car total so my wear metals would naturally be much higher. I just wanted to make sure that the Castrol could hang on for the 10K interval once I get the next change at 10K miles. I am considering switching to Bardahl XTC 5w40. It's VW 505.01 compliant and says it's 100% synthetic. I can save over $0.50 a liter if I count the tax I would pay at the dealership.

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dhdenney - don't do it. at least not during the warranty period, because Bardahl is not VW 505.01 approved.

thermographer - your UOA looks great. actually, my 42ppm prediction was for your potential inherited or starting Fe content. if 42 was actually tour starting Fe, then you had only 5ppm of Fe wear over 4550 miles, which would be amazingly low. it's more likely that either your inherited Fe was less than 42ppm or your previous Fe report of 230ppm was somewhat higher than the oil's actual Fe content. (or both - i.e. inherited was lower than 42ppm because actual Fe content from prior OCI was lower than 230ppm).

47ppm is still a higher Fe content than you would want from a 4.5k oil sample, but you are headed in the right direction. let's see how the Elf 507.00 does at your next 5k OCI. ideally, we really want to get your Fe down below 40ppm for 10k OCIs, but it may take a couple of 5k OCIs to bring the initial Fe content down enough to achieve this.

Some numbers are very high

I just got my analysis back from Oil Analyzers aka Amzoil.

The container was clean so I didn't throw out the first or second sample. The Iron, Copper and Aluminum are high. I sent the first pulled sample so it could have been bad.

Oil change was at 5200 miles and it was the first one. THe car has 9800 on it now and I'll change it this week end. I'll throw out the first 2 samples and send the third.

Below is the first analysis.

IRON 99
CHROMINUM 5
LEAD 8
COPPER 34
TIN 0
AL 44 ABNORMAL
NICKEL 5
SILICON 15
BORON 2
SILVER 0
SODIUM 7
MAGNESIUM179
CALCIUM 2653
BARIUM 0
PHOSPHORUS 762
ZINC 1161
MOLY 1
TITANIUM 0
VANADIUM 0
POTASSIUM 0
FUEL <1
VIS @ 100 C 9.82
WATER 0
SOOT/SOLIDS 0.2
GLYCOL NEG
TBN 6.54
OXID 9.0
NITR 11.0
F-SOOT 0.20
CHANGE YES

2006 Jetta TDI PD

I'm calling them to ask about it but I wanted to know what someone here thought.

I really don't know why people are spending $$$ on sampling oil on a brand new engine....the values are likely to look zany.

dieseldorf said:

I really don't know why people are spending $$$ on sampling oil on a brand new engine....the values are likely to look zany.

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i think it's cool to start trending the numbers early because it's fun to see the wear metals drop hard during the first 5 or 6 OCIs.

quartermeter1999 - don't worry a bit about the UOA. those are normal numbers are for factory fill 506.01. yeah, i don't believe a factory fill 40 weight sheared to 9.82, i'm quite confident the factory fill is a 30 weight.

keep enjoying your new TDI - it's doing fine. your soot is actually very low (good) - do you have access to some good fuel?

oh yeah - if you could edit your post to include what model your car is that'd be great. we're working on updating the database and that's relavent.

below is my recommended "single dump" oil sampling procedure. multiple dumps are OK too

dieseldorf said:

I really don't know why people are spending $$$ on sampling oil on a brand new engine....the values are likely to look zany.

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Agree: All this does is check to see how well the shop cleaned the parts. As a machinist I can inform you the only units receiving an oil flush are hydraulic assemblies. That's why VW calls for a couple of short oil change intervals on the engines.

SUNRG said:

dhdenney - don't do it. at least not during the warranty period, because Bardahl is not VW 505.01 approved.

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Who says the Bardahl isn't 505.01 approved?

http://www.bardahl.ca/products/pmp/Performance_Assured.html

dhdenney said:

Who says the Bardahl isn't 505.01 approved?

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VW. this is the list of all oils that have been 505.01 approved by VW.
I'm not trying to be contrary, I'm just looking out for you and your PD.

SUNRG said:

VW. this is the list of all oils that have been 505.01 approved by VW.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/3005/309350501.pdf
​

I'm not trying to be contrary, I'm just looking out for you and your PD.

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I 100% agree that the Bardahl doesn't appear on this list. However, I don't think they would make a claim such as that if it were not compliant.

http://www.bardahl.ca/products/pmp/22610.html

It is engineered to surpass Ford M2C917, Mercedes-Benz 229.1, Volkswagen 500.00 / 501.00 / 502.00 / 505.00 and 505.01 specifications

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Bardahl guarantees that its XTC 5W-40 100% Synthetic Motor Oil is formulated to meet or exceed the manufacturers' vehicle motor oil specifications for most domestic and imported gasoline and diesel engines; API SJ/CF, ACEA A3/B3, BMW, M-B 229.3, Ford WSS-M2C917-A, Porsche, GM (SAAB/OPEL), VW 502.00/505.00/505.01. Therefore, Bardahl will pay for parts and labour deemed reasonably necessary to repair damage to engines if it can be demonstrated that the damage was caused solely and directly by a breach of this warranty.

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Maybe just lag between certifications being granted and the list being "published" (it's dated June 23, 2005).

I imagine that to be the case. I found a bulletin (though it had Audi on it), that had this oil under the 502.00 certification but it didn't have it on the 505.01 either.

dhdenney said:

I 100% agree that the Bardahl doesn't appear on this list. However, I don't think they would make a claim such as that if it were not compliant.

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there are no, zero, 100% fully synthetic 505.01 approved oils. in addition, 502.00/505.00/505.01 is not a VW approval sequence. no oil in the world is 502.00 and 505.01. the sequence is 500.00/505.00/505.01.

this very issue has been discussed many times...

if you use this oil, and anything oil related occurs:

1. VW will deny warranty coverage because you chose to use an oil they did not approve.
2. you will have the responsibility of demonstrating to Bardahl that their oil was soley and directly the reason the repair was needed.

Schaeffer's claims to have a 502.00/505.00/505.01 oil as well, but it is not VWAG 505.01 approved either. see this recent thread.

Maybe just lag between certifications being granted and the list being "published" (it's dated June 23, 2005).

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this issue is long since dead guys. i actually started this thread in September of 2004 regarding this exact oil and 505.01. please delete your "XTC is 505.01" posts from this thread so newbies scanning this thread do not mistakenly think it is 505.01 approved.

no less than 20 TDIclub members have emailed Bardahl and asked to see their VWAG 505.01 approval letter. they have never sent one to anyone because they do not have one. it looks just like this:



unless Bardahl sends you a copy of letter like this for XTC - do not continue posting to this thread that it is 505.01 compliant.

Calm down now SUNRG... if you'd responded with those references initially, it would have saved some obvious aggravation. Since you didn't, we had no reason to believe it had been covered before.

I will not delete my post; if a moderator deems it necessary, so be it. I see nothing against the rules in my post.

fitzski said:

Calm down now SUNRG... if you'd responded with those references initially, it would have saved some obvious aggravation. Since you didn't, we had no reason to believe it had been covered before.

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you're kidding right? what about the search engine?

I will not delete my post; if a moderator deems it necessary, so be it. I see nothing against the rules in my post

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i'm not asking you to remove your posts because you've broken a rule. i'm asking out of consideration of newbies and others that may not read beyond it enough to discover it's incorrect information.

i'm sorry if i've offended you in any way. i'm just trying to help you and others.

No, SUNRG, you must be kidding... Why did you not make those references in your initial response, or at least suggest that a search would yield more info on the Bardahl "situation"? We are effectively in the middle of a "conversation" here, and I personally think it's a bit unreasonable for you to expect us to have turned to the search engine in such a situation. We were simply responding to your uncited, unreferenced statements.

Your off-the-cuff, take-my-word-as-gospel "don't do it" response was met with a legitimate post, and I'm surprised you took such exception to it.

Besides, if you wanted to keep the thread "clean", you shouldn't have made your initial response anyway - denney never asked you about it, you just took it upon yourself to respond quickly. You could have PMed him, or posted a link to further info.

I know you don't think I broke a rule - all the more reason that I can take exception to you suggesting that I, or anyone else, should delete a legitimate post.

That's all I'll say on it, in the interests of keeping the thread "clean"...

dhdenney said:

I 100% agree that the Bardahl doesn't appear on this list. However, I don't think they would make a claim such as that if it were not compliant.

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Bardahl saying it is compliant and VW saying it is compliant are worlds apart.

I can drink some beer and say the result is G-12 compliant, but that doesn't make it so.

If VW says that it isn't compliant, then they won't back-up the warranty if it is used.

I see that now. I didn't realize that buying a VW was a whole new ballgame like it is. I'm over 100 miles to the nearest dealer so I'm just gonna stick to Impex and TDIparts.com.

I'm just gonna stick to Impex and TDIparts.com

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excellent choices!

Latest (6th) oil sample at 53k

SUNRG check your PM - just received some bad news. Oil Sample at 53k tested positive for glycol. Can't upload onto photos section for some reason so I'll need to email it to you.
Will need to resample pretty quick - am driving 2400kms over xmas, will pull sample when I get back. Just went and checked the coolant reservoir and guess what...? It's down, not my much (at lowest notch).

FYI: the latest sample is w/ Motul, car now running Elf.

spicy_red said:

SUNRG check your PM - just received some bad news. Oil Sample at 53k tested positive for glycol. Can't upload onto photos section for some reason so I'll need to email it to you.
Will need to resample pretty quick - am driving 2400kms over xmas, will pull sample when I get back. Just went and checked the coolant reservoir and guess what...? It's down, not my much (at lowest notch).

FYI: the latest sample is w/ Motul, car now running Elf.

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spicy - i really hope your dealer is cool, because this is a known issue. i'd call first thing in the morning. tell the dealer that your used oil lab analysis showes that glycol/antifreeze was present in the oil change interval that began at 45k and went to 53k? and, mention that this is a known issue and the EGR cooler is likely the cause.

just maybe, if the dealer is willing to look at this situation the right way, you can still get this covered under warranty.

edit: tell the dealer that you noticed the coolant loss somewhere between 45 and 47k, and have added a small quanitity since that time, but didn't think anything of it until this last UOA which indicated anti-freeze contamination in the oil. i realize this is stretching the truth, but this is an expensive repair that you should not have to pay for.

Spoke with my service manager this morning. Before I told him he said it's probably the EGR cooler. The car still is on warranty so all is good on that front.
My dillema now is whether we drive our planned 2400km trip over xmas or not. The car has not gobbled up much coolant and I could take it in as soon as we get back. I'd hate to take the powersmoke as it would probably be cheaper to fly .... but of course cheaper than engine repairs for our TDI....

I know antifreeze is very bad for oil, but if there is no milky color to the oil, and it only lost a very small amount over a couple thousand km's, I would just drive it. Perhaps somebody who knows better will step in, but that's what I would do. Did your service manager advise you against it?

I read on the board that the EGR cooler can go from ok to very bad very fast. I'm not saying I know better than you though.