VNT 17/26. Anyone had experience?

newguy2tdi · Dec 2, 2014

Hey guys I'm new to the game and am getting a 2003 Jetta Tdi 5 spd soon. I'm doing research in advance for modding it as i would love to have 200hp and get 50mpg with it (who wouldn't lol)

I was looking at the VNT 17/22 hybrid turbo and reviews on it when I came across the 17/26. According to Kerma, the 17/26 has a smoother power band than the 17/22 as well as no more surge issue.

Anyone have any experience or advice about the 17/26?

3turboz · Dec 2, 2014

Looks interesting, and good to see products still being developed. Although I thought this was amusing ..."Turbo Surge issue is gone (with our tuning),".......(emphasis added)

You might call Kerma to chat about it, but I think this is a very recent addition to the lineup. Might not be many out there yet, but you can always be a pioneer!

newguy2tdi · Dec 2, 2014

True...that's a little pricey to be an experiment gone wrong. I thought about calling them. It's always nice to get advice or results from people who have already tried out and worked out kinks in these newer things

BuzzKen · Dec 2, 2014

Why is reading this giving me a funny feeling?

And in regards to the turbo, I hope something was done with the exhaust side, or this thing will probably be one hell of an egt machine.........

777 · Dec 2, 2014

At what point with that small exhaust side and much larger intake side does cly pressure start to be an issue. I'm wondering if this turbo would be a head gasket piston melting machine

LNXGUY · Dec 2, 2014

lol @ the warranty requirements.

tyson · Dec 2, 2014

Yes welcome to the party Kerma haters. Although I guess trolls never leave. I am interested to see the results of this myself. Although anything posted on here no matter how positive isn't enough for some people.

777 · Dec 2, 2014

Not kerma hating just asking questions fact is there is no good info other than what kerma claims

BuzzKen · Dec 2, 2014

I am interested in a newbie that comes on promoting a new kerma product and has no other posts and oddly words himself like someone familiar. No offence to the OP if I am wrong, but I don't think I am. I'm gonna beat Bill to the punch on this one: Stay Classy.

tyson · Dec 2, 2014

Mainly referring to LNXGUY. Every positive thread or rather inquisitive thread regarding anything to do with that company has his negativity. I'm sick of it. I've never had anything but the best service and products from their company and as long as it stays that way you can call me a fanboy because they've treated me well and that's my experience. Show me whatever thread you want, it won't influence my experience because its first hand

Fix_Until_Broke · Dec 2, 2014

Blah, blah, blah - Show me some data

newguy2tdi · Dec 2, 2014

BuzzKen said:
I am interested in a newbie that comes on promoting a new kerma product and has no other posts and oddly words himself like someone familiar. No offence to the OP if I am wrong, but I don't think I am. I'm gonna beat Bill to the punch on this one: Stay Classy.

I'm actually a cadet at the Air Force Academy and am getting my car loan soon that I have waited 2 years for.

I'm just doing a ton of ahead of time research because I have a very limited time during my summer leave to put most of the mods on my compiled list onto the car. I too am skeptical of the turbo hence the question

newguy2tdi · Dec 2, 2014

So let me rephrase the question

Is the VNT 17/22 pretty tried and true? I was just looking for a good hybrid. Obviously haven't experimented with the s7 or any other turbos so I was looking for some results and data as well as if anyone just had general information on the 17/26

LNXGUY · Dec 2, 2014

tyson said:
Mainly referring to LNXGUY. Every positive thread or rather inquisitive thread regarding anything to do with that company has his negativity. I'm sick of it. I've never had anything but the best service and products from their company and as long as it stays that way you can call me a fanboy because they've treated me well and that's my experience. Show me whatever thread you want, it won't influence my experience because its first hand

You call it negativity, I call it reality. Either way, don't get your panties in such a twist. If you don't like my opinion, you can simply ignore it. BTW, my only real sticking point that's got anything to do with Kerma is the S7...errr I mean BV43. You know what I'm sick of? Sheep.

clamb · Dec 3, 2014

To the OP.. What other mods are you looking to install? My experience after owning two ALH is to keep the IQ at a level that doesn't generate excessive soot. I've had a beetle with .216 nozzles, stock turbo and kerma tune as well as my current jetta which has a vnt 17 amongst other mods and Malone tuned. Both cars were quick and both suffered from sticky turbo vanes when I got little carried away on the IQ side. Is recommend going either vnt 17 or vnt 17/22.. My car is hardly slow with the 17

Abacus · Dec 3, 2014

newguy2tdi said:
I'm actually a cadet at the Air Force Academy and am getting my car loan soon that I have waited 2 years for.

I'm just doing a ton of ahead of time research because I have a very limited time during my summer leave to put most of the mods on my compiled list onto the car. I too am skeptical of the turbo hence the question

I'll bet you do have limited time, the Service Academies don't let people just sit around doing nothing. So you're going to be a senior, good for you!

I have not heard of the 17/26 until recently and would want to see data on it as well. The 17/22 is tried and true and is a good performer. In your state of affairs I would stick with the known and get the 17/22. You won't have the time to sort out issues later and need something reliable. There is PLENTY of power to be had from the 17/22 and supporting mods, so I'd stick with them.

Good luck in your last year, even if you are a flyboy

Mark (USMA '92)

newguy2tdi · Dec 3, 2014

clamb said:
To the OP.. What other mods are you looking to install? My experience after owning two ALH is to keep the IQ at a level that doesn't generate excessive soot. I've had a beetle with .216 nozzles, stock turbo and kerma tune as well as my current jetta which has a vnt 17 amongst other mods and Malone tuned. Both cars were quick and both suffered from sticky turbo vanes when I got little carried away on the IQ side. Is recommend going either vnt 17 or vnt 17/22.. My car is hardly slow with the 17

I'm looking to put in a straight piped/free flowing exhaust, skid plate with skirts, injectors (.205 or .216 nozzles not sure of yet) a chip (again not decided yet), a better intercooler and the newer turbo either 17/22 or 17/26. Also the CCV filter that GeWilli describes and getting a tune. Should i also go stage 3 clutch and EGR delete?

mk2_carat · Dec 3, 2014

OP, I can't comment on the turbo you are asking about but I am from Colorado Springs and currently stationed at Holloman AFB. Welcome.

3turboz · Dec 3, 2014

First off, welcome to the club/forum. Lots of great info here and helpful people. I spent months searching and reading before I bought my TDI, so you are doing well to educate yourself at this point.

Before you go wild on the mods, make sure the maintenance is up to snuff. Besides the timing belt and everything it touches, don't neglect the suspension and brakes. And yes, upgrade the clutch if you are going to be wanting big power.

If you are going to stay in the colder climes, the EGR will help the engine get up to temp. You might want to look into dynamic EGR in the tune as that lets the EGR work until it is up to temp, then it turns off.

200 hp and 50 MPG might be a stretch, you might have to pick which is more important, or compromise a bit.

Lastly, if you are going to do all those mods you might consider a Darkside turbo kit http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/darkside-gtb-turbo-kit-for-1-9-8v-tdi-engines.html particularly if you think the HP number is the priority. (Although in full disclosure I would choose the hybrid for driving ease, but I am not looking for 200 HP)

A5INKY · Dec 3, 2014

newguy2tdi said:
I'm looking to put in a straight piped/free flowing exhaust, skid plate with skirts, injectors (.205 or .216 nozzles not sure of yet) a chip (again not decided yet), a better intercooler and the newer turbo either 17/22 or 17/26. Also the CCV filter that GeWilli describes and getting a tune. Should i also go stage 3 clutch and EGR delete?

Seems you may have read some of the FAQ/stickies, good for you. There is some seriously dated material in there though. For instance those nozzles you mention are way too small for the turbo or goals you state.

I strongly suggest you choose an ECU tuner first and work with their recommendations on the hardware upgrades. Hardware and software mods must work together. Most tuners (with one notable exception) will not try to scare you into only dealing with them on every aspect, tune and hardware.

newguy2tdi · Dec 3, 2014

A5INKY said:
Seems you may have read some of the FAQ/stickies, good for you. There is some seriously dated material in there though. For instance those nozzles you mention are way too small for the turbo or goals you state.

I strongly suggest you choose an ECU tuner first and work with their recommendations on the hardware upgrades. Hardware and software mods must work together. Most tuners (with one notable exception) will not try to scare you into only dealing with them on every aspect, tune and hardware.

Thanks for the advice. If did some research and chose a tuner should i call the maker or a performance shop and ask for their recomendations on what to stick on coupled with the tuner? Trying to put all of it on and straightened out/tuned in about a 2 week timeframe

newguy2tdi · Dec 3, 2014

3turboz said:
First off, welcome to the club/forum. Lots of great info here and helpful people. I spent months searching and reading before I bought my TDI, so you are doing well to educate yourself at this point.

Before you go wild on the mods, make sure the maintenance is up to snuff. Besides the timing belt and everything it touches, don't neglect the suspension and brakes. And yes, upgrade the clutch if you are going to be wanting big power.

If you are going to stay in the colder climes, the EGR will help the engine get up to temp. You might want to look into dynamic EGR in the tune as that lets the EGR work until it is up to temp, then it turns off.

200 hp and 50 MPG might be a stretch, you might have to pick which is more important, or compromise a bit.

Lastly, if you are going to do all those mods you might consider a Darkside turbo kit http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/darkside-gtb-turbo-kit-for-1-9-8v-tdi-engines.html particularly if you think the HP number is the priority. (Although in full disclosure I would choose the hybrid for driving ease, but I am not looking for 200 HP)

Wow. I had not seen those kits. Seems like theyre made to be alot easier to install. In the table below on the Darkside page where it has the listed turbos... The "max power" listed is the power that that particular turbo is meant to withstand. If I am looking for around 200hp should i go with a small margin of safety with a vnt 17/22 (210hp) or the next turbo up (GT2052V-220hp) to avoid running it close to its max? Didn't know how much that would matter

GiGGer · Dec 3, 2014

For an OEM configuration stick with the 17/22. For something better with your power goal, go with the gtb1756vk, quick spool, lots of power.

I wouldn't use the GT2052V, for having one in the past, it lags a lot and a GTB1756 would be much more enjoyable.

newguy2tdi · Dec 3, 2014

GiGGer said:
For an OEM configuration stick with the 17/22. For something better with your power goal, go with the gtb1756vk, quick spool, lots of power.

I wouldn't use the GT2052V, for having one in the past, it lags a lot and a GTB1756 would be much more enjoyable.

Cool thanks for the info. Good to know since i would not have thought that about the GTB 1756 without hearing it from experience

A5INKY · Dec 3, 2014

newguy2tdi said:
Thanks for the advice. If did some research and chose a tuner should i call the maker or a performance shop and ask for their recomendations on what to stick on coupled with the tuner? Trying to put all of it on and straightened out/tuned in about a 2 week timeframe

Depends on the tuner you choose. Malone (full disclosure of my bias, I'm a Malone dealer) has a dealer network and your best bet is to contact one of his many dealers. TD Tuning is developing a dealer network and if you have one near, that is a good option though you can contact him directly too. Rocketchip chooses not use any dealers and you either have to send him your ECU or find him at his shop in PA or one of the many get togethers he attends. I imagine you have already talked to Kerma.

All the tuners I listed will be happy to recommend a tune level and the hardware upgrades that work best for their offering to meet your goal.

newguy2tdi · Dec 3, 2014

A5INKY said:
Depends on the tuner you choose. Malone (full disclosure of my bias, I'm a Malone dealer) has a dealer network and your best bet is to contact one of his many dealers. TD Tuning is developing a dealer network and if you have one near, that is a good option though you can contact him directly too. Rocketchip chooses not use any dealers and you either have to send him your ECU or find him at his shop in PA or one of the many get togethers he attends. I imagine you have already talked to Kerma.

All the tuners I listed will be happy to recommend a tune level and the hardware upgrades that work best for their offering to meet your goal.

Thanks! I've actually been looking up Malone Dealers/shops in my area and have been leaning towards their tune. Mainly because there is a shop nearby that could do all of the performance work along with the tune. I'm thinking the flashzilla also since it really isn't too expensive. What are the pros and cons of it?

A5INKY · Dec 3, 2014

Flashzilla is just an end-user level tune loader. TD Tuning and Kerma also offer their versions. There is no benefit in terms of the tune itself, though if you anticipate the need for much fine tuning or future hardware upgrades that would require a tune update, then a Flashzilla will save you a trip to the Malone dealer. Flashzilla allows tunes to be emailed to you.

newguy2tdi · Dec 3, 2014

A5INKY said:
Flashzilla is just an end-user level tune loader. TD Tuning and Kerma also offer their versions. There is no benefit in terms of the tune itself, though if you anticipate the need for much fine tuning or future hardware upgrades that would require a tune update, then a Flashzilla will save you a trip to the Malone dealer. Flashzilla allows tunes to be emailed to you.

Oh okay. I knew that they performed that function. Do they not also provide the same type of real time gauging and meters etc like a bully dog or something like that on a diesel truck?

TDIMeister · Dec 3, 2014

Just so that I'm clear about something: I've never heard of a 17/26. Are you sure it's not 1756?

john.jackson9213 · Dec 3, 2014

TDIMeister said:
Just so that I'm clear about something: I've never heard of a 17/26. Are you sure it's not 1756?

Here it is from Kerma's site:

http://www.kermatdi.com/servlet/-st...7-fdsh-26,Turbocharger,for,ALH,and,BEW/Detail

"New Kerma 17/26 Upgraded Turbocharger for ALH and BEW. Our new KERMA designed turbo has a smoother power band than the 17/22 with an extended tip billet compressor wheel that makes it flow more like a 55mm compressor. The new 52mm aerodynamically engineered billet wheel helps dramaticlly increase compressor burst resistance and allows higher shaft speeds than the 17/22. -
What does this mean? Higher flow than the 17/22 more comparable to a 55mm wheel, Turbo surge issue is greatly reduced and in most instances the surge issue is not there (with our tuning), the 17/26 also creates more boost at lower engine speeds."

VNT 17/26. Anyone had experience?

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