Dealer / VW Response to Fuel Filter Metal Contamination

GGK

Veteran Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Location
High Desert in NM
TDI
2009 Jetta Sedan
I don't think we will ever get a clear and full picture of the problem. Many TDI owners do not belong to this forum. Of those who knows how many just swallowed the cost or in some cases the matter was quietly handled by the dealer.....
 

dweisel

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Jul 28, 2006
Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
TDI
dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
res ipsa said:
That question occurred to me as well, but on a national basis, i.e. have any of the cars that have gone down been in Canada or just in the States?
So, far just the USA as far as I know. Not sure how many Canadian members there are to draw from as compared to US members?
 

dweisel

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Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
TDI
dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
GGK said:
I don't think we will ever get a clear and full picture of the problem. Many TDI owners do not belong to this forum. Of those who knows how many just swallowed the cost or in some cases the matter was quietly handled by the dealer.....
That is correct, as one woman I meet from Columbus,OH that had a HPFP failure and was covered under warranty without a fight thought it was no big deal and therefore not even worth talking about. So, those are just lost in the number count.

Dweisel
 

Dieselfitter

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Mar 1, 2009
Location
Edmonton Alberta
TDI
2009 JSW TDI with DSG
dweisel said:
So, far just the USA as far as I know. Not sure how many Canadian members there are to draw from as compared to US members?
This would be interesting. Due to extremes in weather and climate in Canada, you would think this country would be a good testing ground, and that we would have had some pump failures.

Some Provinces have a mandatory biodiesel blend. In Alberta,only D100 is available but that will change July 1 to B2 blend. I just inspected my fuel filter canister today and it was SPOTLESS. No corrosion or metal filings.
 

Plus 3 Golfer

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Location
ARIZONA
TDI
Und tschüss! 2009 Jetta 12/23/2012
UPDATE:

The dealer inspected my FF again at 30k miles for metal contamination. I also inspected it when I returned home.

The techs indicated the FF looked fine with no contamination like the last time. Upon my inspection I'd say that it certainly doesn't look anything like the first time but I could still see maybe 15-20 very tiny shiny metal specs on top of the FF. Also, if you look at the pic of my filter at 26k miles in my first post, the top is covered with all sizes of particles including very small dust-like particles giving the top of the FF a hazy appearance. Now, the top of my filter looks clear and pristine not hazy with dust-like particles.

I hope that the few tiny small particles seen now are remnants from the metal contamination that I and the dealer observed at 26k miles. The dealer only cleaned the FF housing and replaced the FF at 26k miles. I will continue to check the FF periodically for additional contamination - probably in mid-July and again in late August after a 5k mile road trip.

The longevity of my ownership of a TDI (and a VW) is waning rapidly to the extent that the TDI may not make the August trip.:D
 

Rod Bearing

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Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Location
Fort Worth
TDI
Several
Before I gave my daughter my 09 - to replace the one hit and totaled while parked - I found a smattering of small shiny specks of something on each and every filter at inspection or at change time. It never progressed, never affected performance and still, now with the car in Minnesota and just about to go past 87,000 miles (she drives the hell out of it in her business) it is still performing flawlessly. It uses no oil between changes, starts in cold or hot weather, runs like a scalded dog, and overall is a pleasure to drive.

I bet a vast vast majority of these new CR diesels are just like mine.

Knowing US fuel quality like I do, I also suspect and firmly believe that a small small number will fail due to said piss poor fuel that by natural odds of the system, happens to gassers as well.

I suggest prozac for those who are obsessively worrying, wringing their hands, and gnashing their teeth till sparks fly over what might happen, but likely wont. OCD is treatable. Life is more fun when you don't worry every freaking minute.:)
 

Plus 3 Golfer

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Location
ARIZONA
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Und tschüss! 2009 Jetta 12/23/2012
Before I gave my daughter my 09 - to replace the one hit and totaled while parked - I found a smattering of small shiny specks of something on each and every filter at inspection or at change time. It never progressed, never affected performance and still, now with the car in Minnesota and just about to go past 87,000 miles (she drives the hell out of it in her business) it is still performing flawlessly. It uses no oil between changes, starts in cold or hot weather, runs like a scalded dog, and overall is a pleasure to drive.

I bet a vast vast majority of these new CR diesels are just like mine.

Knowing US fuel quality like I do, I also suspect and firmly believe that a small small number will fail due to said piss poor fuel that by natural odds of the system, happens to gassers as well.

I suggest prozac for those who are obsessively worrying, wringing their hands, and gnashing their teeth till sparks fly over what might happen, but likely wont. OCD is treatable. Life is more fun when you don't worry every freaking minute.:)
Well, that's good news. That's the first time I've heard others seeing a small spattering of particles on multiple FF inspections and changes. I inspected my FF twice before the 26k miles (but not before my 20k dealer FF change) and both times the FF top was pristine.

Maybe my TDI will make the August trip after all.:D
 

ruking

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Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
It's interesting that the 2009-2010 Jetta TDI can't handle metal being pumped into the tank - all of these metal shavings that I've been pumping into my 2005.5 BRM TDI don't seem to affect my car one bit. I guess that's because my engine is used to all of the metal shavings from the camshaft wearing out :D

The way that VW is responding to these complaints actually resulted in me telling my wife today that we're not buying another VW TDI until there is some time-tested proof that this problem is gone. Thank god we bought one of the old TDIs.

Does VW understand that the internet exists, and that people talk on it?
Ah you forgot the premature wear materials from the ultra fast rear brake wear issue. :eek::p
 

Elfnmagik

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Location
Sherman's Ashtray
TDI
Currently De-Dub'd
I'm still betting that VW has by now coached the dealers on how to respond to "flashing glow plug, car lost power and won't restart/run".
 

truman

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Joined
May 18, 2000
Location
columbia,MO,usa
TDI
'05 Passat Variant, Still miss the 03JW
I'm still betting that VW has by now coached the dealers on how to respond to "flashing glow plug, car lost power and won't restart/run".
I suspect that it goes beyond coaching. The dealers are likely advised that if there is any evidence of fuel contamination, there won't be any warranty reimbursement. VW pushes back on the dealers and the dealers push back on the owners.
 

Plus 3 Golfer

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Oct 29, 2008
Location
ARIZONA
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Und tschüss! 2009 Jetta 12/23/2012
UPDATE: Specks at 40k mile FF Change

Update at 40k miles: I've inspected my FF several times since the dealer changed it at 30k miles. Each time the amount of visible specks and the "hazy" look (dust like particles) on top of the FF diminished. Today, I could only see a handfull of specks and no "dust" on the top of the FF.

I installed a new FF and cut a section of the old filter out (about 1 inch by about 6" or about 10 pleats) and examined it. In a few of the pleats I could visibly see a particle and found several others with a 6X magnifier. I took photos of a portion of a pleat as seen below. You can see a small white speck near the bottom center of the pleat in the first pic. The red circles on the second pic indicate the two specks found on this pleat.

To give persepective, the dimples are about 1 mm or 1000 microns in diameter. So, the larger speck is about 250 microns (clearly visible to the naked eye) and the smaller one is estimated at about 60-70 microns (visible once you know it's there). I could not find any other specks using a 6X magnifier on this pleat. Also, the particles do not appear to be attracted to a magnetic. Here's dweisel's take on where the non-magnetic specks may be coming from.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3165836&postcount=342

So, hopefully the specks are a one-off event. But, I will continue to examine my FF every 5k miles or so, splash mix to B2, and add about 4 ounces of Diesel Kleen per fillup.


 
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Plus 3 Golfer

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Und tschüss! 2009 Jetta 12/23/2012
Yes, I agree. My guess is that the specks are remnants of whatever happened between 22k miles and 26k miles.
 

Plus 3 Golfer

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Und tschüss! 2009 Jetta 12/23/2012
If that is the case then you should expect to see no specks at all the next time you inspect the new FF, correct?
Only if all the specks in the system are captured by the new filter. There were a few specks still visible on top of the old filter (i.e, the filter changed by dealer at 27k miles and the one I just replaced).
 
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jtelford

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Nov 24, 2010
Location
St. Louis
TDI
2010 JSW TDI, black, 6MT
Have you passed a magnet over the particles to see if they are iron?

For that matter, does the oil drain plug have a magnet in it? Seems like cheap insurance.

I'm pretty interested in these (paranoid?) discussions, because I am really thinking about buying JSW TDI.

Thanks for all the interesting info-
Jason
 

Plus 3 Golfer

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Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Location
ARIZONA
TDI
Und tschüss! 2009 Jetta 12/23/2012
Have you passed a magnet over the particles to see if they are iron?

For that matter, does the oil drain plug have a magnet in it? Seems like cheap insurance.

I'm pretty interested in these (paranoid?) discussions, because I am really thinking about buying JSW TDI.

Thanks for all the interesting info-
Jason
The specks are not attracted to a magnet. The engine oil drain plug is not magnetic but the HPFP is lubricated by diesel fuel not engine oil.
 

ymz

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Joined
May 12, 2003
Location
Between Toronto & Montreal
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2003 Jetta TDI Wagon, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon
Well, if magnets won't help, perhaps a Q-Ray bracelet placed somewhere in the engine compartment will fix the HPFP problems...

Yuri
 

jtelford

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Location
St. Louis
TDI
2010 JSW TDI, black, 6MT
The specks are not attracted to a magnet. The engine oil drain plug is not magnetic but the HPFP is lubricated by diesel fuel not engine oil.
Then my first thought would be that they are aluminum- probably part of the swarf from machining the engine cases. I can't imagine that the HPFP is aluminum...I would think steel, but hey- maybe chrome, which is not magnetic. Seriously, I don't know what metals are used nor where in the system. I'm just throwing a guess out.
 
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