To Keep or Not To Keep My 2013 JSW

I have a 2013 JSW (TDI, obviously, with a manual transmission and the sunroof/17" wheels package). I purchased it new in April 2013, and have driven it about 35K miles since then.

See below for lots of details and specific questions, but basically, the car has had many problems, and the warranty is running out. I'm not sure if I should cross my fingers and keep it, or trade it for something bulletproof like a Corolla. Hoping you can share your experiences so I can get a sense of what's to come, both good and bad...

Thanks!

DETAILS:

The 10K, 20K, and 30K services have been completed. 95% of time, I fill it with Shell diesel. I don't regularly use additives, but I've run a few bottles of Stanadyne through it. I always track my mileage, and my lifetime average (calculated, not from the OBC) is 37.6 MPG. I used to commute much further, but now I drive 14 miles (total) per day to work and back. I don't regularly interrupt regen cycles, but it has happened a few times in the past.

I love the car for a number of different reasons, but it, and the various dealers it has been to, have been quite problematic so far. Here's the service history:

- January 2014 - had the intercooler icing issue so had the kit installed to correct that
- January 2014 - dealer did a lousy job on the install of the intercooler kit and had to redo it
- June 2014 - left rear window mechanism broke
- June 2014 - dealer did a lousy job on the window fix and had to redo it
- January 2015 - EGT sensor failure
- June 2015 - check engine light on for DPF and exhaust flap; exhaust flap replaced and dealer said the DPF passed their test and is fine
- June 2015 - check engine light back on for DPF; not sure of resolution yet

The pattern seems to be a shop visit every six months. Other than annoying, this hasn't been a huge deal so far because the car is under warranty. However, I only have 1K miles to go before that's gone. I'm aware that there is a very basic emissions system warranty that covers me for 8 years/80K miles, but the sense I get is that once the bumper-to-bumper warranty runs out, these trips are going to become a fight with the dealer about what is/isn't included.

For what it's worth, I could get a VW 6 year/100K extended warranty for around $2500, but there is a deductible, and many things are not covered. On top of that, I also see this warranty as requiring a lot of fighting with the dealer.

Basically, I would love to keep the car, but won't be able to afford it with this "every six months" regimen once the warranty runs out, especially if it's pricey parts like the DPF that are breaking.

So...here are my questions...

1. Between the EGT sensor failure, exhaust flap failure, and apparent DPF problems, any ideas about the root cause of these gremlins? Is the car just not made for short-distance, stop-and-go driving?

2. What about getting a Ross-Tech VCDS and doing commanded regens to keep the DPF clean? Or fuel additives? Is there anything I should be doing given the type of driving I do and this apparent string of emissions system problems to keep the car happier?

3. Has anyone had similar problems at a similar frequency?

Thanks!

mculik5 said:

Basically, I would love to keep the car...

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Aside from the DPF issue, I would say, "keep it."

However, if the DPF issue isn't resolved well, then I could see you wanting to get rid of it.

If you get a new DPF under warranty, that should be a plus, because you're good for at least 150k miles after than until the DPF will wear out. (the manual says to make the first check at 120k, a few of us high-mileagers are getting 200k+ out of the first DPF)

The exhaust flap and intercooler icing are known issues, and mostly annoyances, not showstoppers. The window regulator is a strange one, because there haven't been many window regulator failures on Mk5.5's. (my Mk4 had issues with all 4, and VW learned a lesson and the engineering on them was a 'lessons learned'....they didn't want to repeat that mistake)

I had the exhaust flap replaced under extended voluntary warranty. I had my A/C condenser go out, and had the intake manifold replaced for a P2015 code. (before an aftermarket fix was available)

You've had 2 botched dealer jobs, which adds to frustration, but wasn't a root-cause failure.

Don't let 'oilhammer' see your post about Corollas. Toyotas have their share of problems, too. Toyota just sweeps many issues under the rug by taking care of issues for free, which is helpful, but skews the data that claims that Toyotas are more reliable. If you like your TDI, you're probably not going to enjoy a Corolla.

I also have a 2013 JSW bought new in Oct14 and just rolled over 54K km (33K miles) but with DSG.

I will be putting on 35K km per year for the foreseeable future, so I purchased the extended warranty from day 1 and negotiated for $2200 cdn, and plan to keep the car until it dies.

I've also done the recommended maintenance at the dealer (just to maintain warranty and not have to fight them if anything happens, knock on wood).

The only thing that I had to take mine in for is the rear wiper washer pump motor and a 'sticky' driver side wiper arm that doesn't keep tension enough.

Honestly speaking it's been a great car so far and I enjoy all the extra low end torque. However if I had a choice of a similar car, in options and price, I would not be driving a VW because of all their known electrical issues. My buddy who has a 2010 with 70K has been in the shop 4 times with glow plug light but they can't diagnosis the issue. Replaced the radio unit once. He always thanks the Gods that he also purchased the extended warranty.

With all that said if you don't have any issues with emissions testing where you are you can do a tune with DPF delete if you're into tuning. But if you're not and don't want the headaches, like the above poster said, I can see you dumping the car as well.

GL and all the best.

If cheap, reliable transportation is what you're after, sell it and get a Honda. Nothing at all wrong with that.

Our TDI's have newer technology and known issues with each model. I own a couple, a 2006 Jetta with thousand$ in component replacements, and a '14 Passat I purchased with a 7 year 100,000 warranty.

The risk is worth it to me, and is mitigated with good maintenance, scan gauge, etc. I enjoy getting in the car and driving. If you're a parent, having a car you really enjoy driving can sweeten the ride. Or a long commute.

I think my cars have a better performance than the equivalent Honda hundai, Toyota. Braking and handling. That little BRM in particular is perfect for the narrow streets in our city, has a heavy frame, great braking, and is glued to the road. It's a great car for my wife, who seems to also enjoy having a nice manual car to drive. Those cars are before they started 'Decontenting' (taking features out), and the seats are very nice, with real leather, and more adjustability than my 14 Passat.

If a thousand bucks here and eighteen hundred there sounds like too much risk, then consider an accord or similar. If it's money worth spending because you really enjoy it, then keep it. It's been pointed out that the other brands break down, but they are way cheaper to repair in my experience. Now if you're a mechanic, or have a great TDI mechanic outside the dealership, it may not be that big of a deal. But what do the major components in your JSW cost? An exhaust repair out of warranty could be, um, demoralizing.

So, you have to set your priorities. Assume appropriate risk. Good luck!


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mculik5 said:

Is the car just not made for short-distance, stop-and-go driving?

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Just my opinion, but I know it is shared by others, I think the new TDI is not made for short-distance, stop-and-go driving. For one thing, the value simply isn't there if you're not racking up miles on the highway. More importantly, I think the engine needs to be run for longer periods to maintain efficiency and be happy.

My car has been great for ~115,000 miles, but I drive for about an hour each way on my commute, mostly on the PA Turnpike at speed. I think my situation is ideal for the TDI. If my situation changes, which it will when I retire, I'm getting a gasser. I'll probably get a GTI so I can get a loaded car with a manual transmission.

Maybe you should look at trading for a new Golf Sportwagen with the 1.8T. They're pretty darn nice, although maybe not as trouble-free as a Honda or Toyota. You could also try a used JSW with the 2.5 motor, but I think you'd miss the TDI in that car. The new 1.8T in the new GSW might be just fine.

What dealer in NJ are you using?

I bought my 2010 JSW about 2 months ago from the original owners. They owned it for 5 years and 100k miles. The only issue they had with it was the exhaust flap that was replaced under warranty and a leaking fuel filter canister. Aside from that it was trouble free and only in for the normal 10k services.

Mine is a 6M with the pano roof. My drive to work is about a 15 min ride so not nearly enough to justify the need for a TDI but I like them, I like how these cars drive and I like the torque and just simply enjoy the fact that it is a diesel!

I have noticed my car doing regens fairly often and with 108k on the odo I'm sure I will eventually have issues with the DPF. When that day comes I will do a DPF delete and Malone tune. I tend to stay loyal to a car if I like it, Knock on wood and hope it stays reliable.

.....same vehicle (w/o sunroof), purchased 4/2013 (25,000 miles).........

Like you, I love the car. Like you, the repairs issues are of concern........

I agree the TDI would prefer the highway. Still at 65% highway, no real problems.

It's a crapshoot. Earlier, a Honda was mentioned. In my experience, that's a good option.

ez

Thanks for all the responses.

Definitely seems like my current commute situation is the primary cause of my issues.

The car is getting a new DPF (under warranty) as I type this.

I love the car for many of the reasons you guys mentioned, and really don't want to give it up. There's no doubt Hondas and Toyotas are great cars, but I have a strong preference for German cars because of the way they drive, their ergonomics, their thoughtful engineering (e.g., oil filter on top of engine instead of underneath requiring you to drain oil onto the CV boots and A-arms like my wife's old Civic...), etc. But, like you guys also said, there's no doubt that German cars have more problems and are more expensive to fix. To me, that's generally a fair price to pay for everything that's better about them, but with where I'm at in my life right now, a multi-$K trip to the dealer once a year or so is going to be tough to deal with.

At this point, I think I'm going to get a Ross-Tech so that I can monitor the soot buildup and command regens when needed. I may also start using fuel additives regularly. If, over the next few months, I start to see that the regens aren't cleaning the DPF, I'll probably get rid of the car.

I think you ought to sell it to me. Cheap. Depending on the color.
As the others said, the dealer sounds like 1/2 the problem.
You might want to shop around for a third-party maintenance insurance policy - VW does not have the only one on the market.

Forgot to post about the dealers.

The intercooler icing issue and window issues were fixed by Paul Miller VW in Bernardsville, NJ. The EGT sensor, exhaust flap, and DPF were fixed by Trend VW in Rockaway, NJ.

They both suck, but Trend is definitely the "better" of the two, at least for service (bought the car from Audi/VW of Newton, so can't comment on sales at either one). The "service advisors" at Paul Miller were generally dumb as rocks - basically glorified receptionists, with very little automotive knowledge. Trend is better in this regard, but I still get the sense that the primary functions of the service advisors are to sell you stuff and keep you from having to shake the greasy hand of the guy who actually did the work.

Speaking of the mechanics themselves, the number of double visits I've had to make speaks to the quality of their worksmanship... Seems like all they do is address the codes the computer spits out in the cheapest, fastest way possible, and don't give any thought to root cause, long-term fixes, etc. Hell, the only thing that separates me from a VW mechanic is that he works in a heated garage with the car on a lift, and I work in my driveway with the car on jackstands. Seems like our knowledge levels are the same...

Separate topic - any thoughts on how to get EGT as high as possible during non-highway driving to assist with passive regen? Will running a gear lower (higher RPM) help, or does it have to do with engine load? Do I need to just accelerate hard all the time?

Engine load will give a higher EGT. Most of my short drive involves rural roads so I try to get on the throttle a little extra but for the most part I drive pretty conservative. I also may have to get a Vag com so I can keep tabs on things.

mculik5 said:

Thanks for all the responses.

Definitely seems like my current commute situation is the primary cause of my issues.

Click to expand...

My commute is 5 to 7 miles, depending on which route I take. Only issue I've had in almost 80K miles on my 10 was a battery replacement early on. Now it might be that your low mile commute in New Jersey is harder than mine in North Carolina, but with VWs, it could just be that particular car.

Yeah, NJ traffic sucks. For my 7 mile commute, my average speed is typically somewhere between 15-20 MPH. Basically, it's 50% idling, 50% short sprints to 40ish MPH. I'm assuming this is nowhere near as good for the car as 15 or so minutes sustained driving at 40 MPH.

Regarding engine load and EGT, if I put the car into a higher gear and push the throttle down further to spool the turbo and not accelerate so fast that I have to lift almost immediately, will that help? I'm not talking about hardcore, 6th gear at 20 MPH lugging - just something reasonable that requires the engine to work a little harder to move the car. Would that be helpful to the DPF? Is it harmful to some other part of the car that makes it not worth it?

I'm probably going to end up selling mine since I'm soon going to only be living 2 miles away from where I work. Thinking of picking up a 2012 - 2014 C250 as its replacement.

I have a 13 dsg and have 66000 miles I've had the inter cooler icing and drilled hole fixed that then exhaust flap stuck fixed that with kroil but besides that it's been great but I drive 80 miles a day. I had the recall for emissions done and now the regens seem much more noticable and have had it buck really bad once so I dunno what the deal is with that I'm sure I'll find out soon enough. I also try to do wot runs every trip to keep it cleaned out. I know on the ford power jokes they like to be run hard the tdi's seem to be the same way

There is a very good TDI guru out your way, M&M auto near Sparta, I have used him, honest, good prices, knows his stuff.

mculik5 said:

Forgot to post about the dealers.
The intercooler icing issue and window issues were fixed by Paul Miller VW in Bernardsville, NJ. The EGT sensor, exhaust flap, and DPF were fixed by Trend VW in Rockaway, NJ.
They both suck, but Trend is definitely the "better" of the two, at least for service (bought the car from Audi/VW of Newton, so can't comment on sales at either one). The "service advisors" at Paul Miller were generally dumb as rocks - basically glorified receptionists, with very little automotive knowledge. Trend is better in this regard, but I still get the sense that the primary functions of the service advisors are to sell you stuff and keep you from having to shake the greasy hand of the guy who actually did the work.
Speaking of the mechanics themselves, the number of double visits I've had to make speaks to the quality of their worksmanship... Seems like all they do is address the codes the computer spits out in the cheapest, fastest way possible, and don't give any thought to root cause, long-term fixes, etc. Hell, the only thing that separates me from a VW mechanic is that he works in a heated garage with the car on a lift, and I work in my driveway with the car on jackstands. Seems like our knowledge levels are the same...
Separate topic - any thoughts on how to get EGT as high as possible during non-highway driving to assist with passive regen? Will running a gear lower (higher RPM) help, or does it have to do with engine load? Do I need to just accelerate hard all the time?

Click to expand...