Gas prices going up - what effect if any on diesel pricing?

Had my TDI close to two months now.

We've beeN paying a premium for diesel since I bought the car. Over the holidays gas was cheap so I drove the Alltrack since my wife bad a broken foot anyway.

Now I hear gas will be going up again. Will we see it go last diesel before summer?


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diesel is 1.30$ CAD per liter here...


comes out to about 3.80-4$ USD per gallon. it sucks.



between diesel being more expensive, and the maintenance on the TDIs (vws in general) it really makes a guy wonder if its worth the extra 10% increase in mileage over the average car.

Currently In Atlanta gas is $2 gal and diesel is $3 gal
A full 50% more expensive

However the prices are always going up and down a lot and will continue to do so

I never pay much attention to it, although in my area fuel is generally pretty inexpensive as compared to other areas. Right now diesel is more expensive though... about 70 cents/gal more, but it is still only about $2.50 or so. My TDI Golf gets nearly twice the fuel mileage of the gas version (51 vs. 27... I know for sure, I've owned many of both kinds). My TDI Passat has less of a spread over my gas Passat, about 38 vs 23, but still is enough to offset the fuel price difference.

I've been driving and enjoying VAG diesels as daily drivers basically since I have been driving, and have always felt that if a dollar bump one way or the other in fuel prices puts you in some sort of panic mode, you are using too much fuel to begin with*. Even with me driving 100 miles a day, my fuel costs are still a pretty small portion of my overall lifetime operating costs.

*those that drive for a living, and have to incorporate fuel costs into their business operational costs, will certainly feel the sting of this more than those of us that do not. However, a properly operating business knows how to adjust for this, and pass this necessary cost on to their customers as appropriate, so it really shouldn't cut too deeply into income. And it also may cause some businesses to look closer at ways to lessen fuel costs by smarter vehicle choices as well as better management of their fuel consuming assets. For instance, one of our fleets recently decided that they would no longer be allowing their field techs to drive their service vans home for the evening unless there was a job on the books scheduled the next day that took advantage of that employee's geographical location. Because a lot of their employees were driving some 50+ miles every day in a company vehicle on the company's fuel just to go to and from their house that was out of the way of much of their normal operational area. And given they are driving fairly loaded E250 vans (all of which are saddled with a 5.4L V8 getting ab out 12 MPG) it adds up quickly.

I think diesel will continue to increase at a higher percentage rate than gasoline because of demand globally. Heavy equipment, ships, aircraft, freight trucks, etc it's all diesel. New ships are having to meet air quality standards and are being forced to move from heavy fuels to diesel. Commercial air traffic use of diesel fuel is huge and doesn't appear to be slowing down.
Gas and diesel prices are currently locally lower than they have been for a few years but the price spread between RUG ($2.24) and diesel ($2.89 and up) is still in excess of $.60/gal, making the percentage spread larger than when both were $1/gal higher.
Expect to pay more one way or the other. MN currently is contemplating raising the "gas tax" since prices are "low" and may meet with less resistance (and it was a priority with the newly elected governor) and is "only" in the median level of state's nation wide.

We recently voted down an increase in fuel tax. I knew it would not pass here, it really had no chance. But hey, if you have a giant redneck 12 MPG beast pickup, who cares if the roads are full of pot holes?

Around here a few months ago the gap between diesel and RUG was over $0.70. Now it's more like $0.40. The beginning of heating season in the Northeast usually causes diesel prices to spike.

Overall, however, fuel is relatively cheap. Consumers have repeatedly demonstrated extremely short memories when it comes to fuel prices. The number of large SUVs and trucks in operation just continue to grow, and no one seems to mind buying fuel for them. That doesn't bode well for diesels, unfortunately. However, it also is going to, I predict, keep people away from electric vehicles. No incentive to experiment.

Almost zero chance diesel will be cheaper than RUG before this summer, imo. I guess I can't complain about cheap gas- my new to me golf 2.5l only does about 30 mpg compared to my tdi's 40-45 mpg, but it isn't costing me any more at the pump.

Actually it probably is, but with prices where they are it's not a big deal, especially when you consider the other costs of owning a car.

RUG is $1.85 on I-75 at Pilot........... their Diesel is $2.95. That spread has been consistent since before last summer.

Off the Interstate in an adjacent county, this past weeked, I saw RUG $1.94 and Diesel was $2.60. All the other local stations had RUG at the same price but Diesel was $2.79 and higher.

Since most of my fleet is Diesel (84 Jetta, 84 Vanagon, 92 RV, 98 Dodge, 03 Jetta and a Yanmar excavator), I'll hang on to them. But, I'll not replace any one of them with a diesel.

Like, Oilhammer, I enjoyed VW Diesels from 1980 until 2005 when Diesel Fuel was consistently cheaper that RUG. Based on my Excel Spreadsheet, in the fall of 2005, diesel fuel went above RUG here locally, and has never been cheaper...... that sucks!

@ $3.15 for diesel and $2.35 gas for gas. my break-even for @ 47mpg diesel in my golf (worst case) is 35 mpg gas. its not making much sense for me to continue with diesel after my 01 golf. I can save a a few bucks buying a hybrid for my next car. I know they wont be as fun but with my commute i will save in the long run. not to mention that they are more comfortable for long trips. I love my TDI but most likely i will not purchase another one to supplement my Golf and eventually replace it after it is driven into the ground.

I assume the trend line reversal in gas vs diesel cost doing a switch around 2005 has to do with the ULSD and the additional processing needed for that.
I am curious to know what other factors come into play, and why gas fluctuates so much, while diesel is more steady.

D2 is basically the same cut as Heating Fuel oil, and kerosene. o, every fall, you see D2 going up a bit until about now (in the areas I have lived).



D2 has gone down here some since October - might see it around $2.75 if you're lucky.


About the D2 / gas difference - to get a better handle, see if you can compare to "pure gas" as opposed to the E10 crap most places sell. Putting ethanol in gas has made a price impact.

Gasoline should be going up as soon as the ultra low sulfur specs come into play. To answer part of 200alhVW's question; gasoline produced here is traded worldwide while diesel is more typically used closer to home. Production can be adjusted to one side or the other of percentage of gasoline or diesel fuel out of the barrel. The higher profit product usually gets the slight production nudge. Diesel fuel usually spikes in the spring and fall with upticks in demand from farming, school busses, and heating oil.

2000alhVW said:

I assume the trend line reversal in gas vs diesel cost doing a switch around 2005 has to do with the ULSD and the additional processing needed for that.
I am curious to know what other factors come into play, and why gas fluctuates so much, while diesel is more steady.

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Gas is often used as a almost a price "loss leader" to get customers in the station/store and buy things/services that the business makes real money on. Price of gas is what's on all the consumers (and media) mind. All you ever hear about is "gas prices", not diesel price. And yet the cost of diesel and freight is what establishes the price of most goods and food products. So gas is fairly competitive, while diesel not so much, and causes some of the price fluctuation we see. Complaints about the cost of diesel go unheard. Most trucking and shipping companies don't care much what the fuel cost is. Every piece of freight that used to come to my retail store (no longer into the retail) was the base rate plus a variable rate "fuel surcharge" based on the current cost of fuel.

Around my area our locality always has higher priced gas than 30-100 miles away, often by $.20/gal or more, even at the same franchise station. Because they can, so they will. And even stranger, in the area north of here where it's further to ship it and it's still usually $.20 less for gas, their diesel prices will we higher than ours, often by more than $.40. Diesel fuel users are sort of subsidizing gasoline users in those areas, but you don't hear the typical driver/consumer complain about the price spread, even though they pay for it through higher product costs.

The prices being quoted on this thread are not going to generate much sympathy from anyone in the UK or in Europe in general.

miningman said:

The prices being quoted on this thread are not going to generate much sympathy from anyone in the UK or in Europe in general.

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So we have heard .

Yes, our fuel here is super cheap, but a lot of folks are obsessed with the subject because a large portion is tax and fees. In most other parts of the world you're also paying for supposed environmental costs. We like to pass that on to the next generation.

We even have a great web site, gasbuddy.com, to help find prices in your area.
When I got my 1999 prices were close, recently diesel has been 50% higher. It's market controlled, diesel did jump when they switched to ULSD.

miningman said:

The prices being quoted on this thread are not going to generate much sympathy from anyone in the UK or in Europe in general.

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Nope, but they can get back at us by gloating about all the cool diesel powered stuff they can buy and we can't.

jettawreck said:

Gas is often used as a almost a price "loss leader" to get customers in the station/store and buy things/services that the business makes real money on...

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That's what killed the local service stations. My best friend back in my single days owned 2 Texaco's and charged a premium for full service while also having self service. He did lots of brake work and light mechanic work just to keep his doors open, while the convenience stores were able to sell gasoline much cheaper because of the profit from their inside stuff. He eventually closed both stations in the mid 90's because people were less and less willing to pay for full service fuel.

Oilhammer's earlier comment about fuel prices and business costs is true. What is difficult for employees of larger corporations that use a separate vehicle reimbursement company to help screw us is the mileage reimbursement is based on the price of RUG. For instance, a person gets a base amount monthly then say 17 cents per mile to cover operating costs. The base amount is figured by how many miles you drive per year and the variable amount is based strictly on gasoline prices.

So for me, any time there is a large gap between diesel and RUG I get hosed a bit more driving for business. And to top it off, thanks to the new federal tax plan that disallows tax deductions for unreimbursed business expenses, I can no longer write off the difference between the federal mileage figures and what my company actually paid me to drive, so my tax burden goes from getting some back to paying in. And that difference will be in the thousands.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Actually it probably is, but with prices where they are it's not a big deal, especially when you consider the other costs of owning a car.

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Yep
I usually don’t worry about the mpg of any of my vehicles

Most are V-8 4WD

I just find a screaming deal on a large comfy safe vehicle that I can use to haul home improvement stuff and get to my weekend getaway cabin , which has a 1/2 mile road that’s been scraped and graveled twice since 1993 so ground clearance and 4wd is required if it’s rained recently

Most people worry a lot about mpg and never realize the depreciation is what is their biggest expense

I have never and will never buy a brand new car so depreciation is not an issue for me

I gets cars for almost nothing by telling friends that if they are shopping for a new car I might want to buy their old one
But only if when they are shopping they tell the sales weasel that they are giving their current vehicle to their son daughter etc and not trading it in
Then after the final price on the new car is settled tell the sales weasel you might want to trade it in after all and ask what they will give ,
It’s usually peanuts , after they have settled on the price of the new car and can’t inflate the trade in allowance by jacking up the price of the new car

So when the dealer offers them $3000 for a car that’s worth $12k I drop what I’m doing and meet em at the stealership with $3000 cash

New roundhouse loves her five speed tdi beetle

Couldn’t find a gasser with a manual trans , and she test drove a tdi and liked it

She went to a stealership and asked to see the cheapest used five speed beetle they had

Salesman said “we got a cheap one that’s a five speed , bad news is , it’s a diesel “


I bought my first tdi when The company I was working for had me traveling 200-400 miles a day and paid .57 cents a mile

My 5 speed 01 golf got 44 so I usually pocketed 50 cents a mile
I paid $3500 for it , cleared $5000 in mileage after fuel and sold it for couple hundred more than I paid
After the company required me to start driving a company truck
But they did let me pick out a new truck , “pick out whatever you want just keep the payment under $700”

So they bought a new crew max tundra and told me I could take it home nights and weekends

I've never really thought about the price differences, but I have notice that the prices for each will spike at different times. For instance, around memorial day, labor day and thanksgiving, gas spikes up in price while I think diesel spikes right at the start of winter when heating oil, and large shipments of stuff get to the stores before Christmas. After the new year, I think the price of diesel depends largely on the temperature and whether there is a demand for heating oil.

I'm not a chemist, but the way the different fuels are produced has a large say in what the price for each will be. As I recall from my last trip to a refinery, it all starts in the same place called a cracker, a giant tank that is used to make fuel. Different fuel types get siphoned off at different times depending on a bunch of parameters that need to be met for each type of fuel. I don't think it actually cost more to produce diesel, but the additives are more expensive.

The cracker is actually the second step. The first step is a basic distillery. Boil the crude and collect the fractions over different temperature gradients. Then you decide where the profit lies and send the heavier or higher boiling fractions through the cracker to break the compounds into smaller and more profitable products.

There's a new cracker being built across the state from you in the Pittsburgh region. It's supposed to be one of the largest on the east coast.