ALH TDI engine transplant into '84 Vanagon

Andy, I would try to incorporate the stock diesel oil filler tube and dipstick that you access through the license plate. Some argue the diesel dipstick is useless. I have found it very convenient. When on a trip and stopping for fuel, I can quickly check the oil level, top up if necessary and the coolant level without opening the rear hatch. The area above the engine ends up being storage when we travel. It takes about 10 minutes to unpack and repack everything. I like the idea of a donor deck opening. Here is my original wood deck I made. That is a GoWesty rubber mat. I bought the entire set to save wear and tear. I have since had to move the wood deck up after adding the wbx transmission.

Yes, although my Vanagons are not Westys, I do understand living out of them while on the road. Each of the 7 trips to Alaska we were out and about for no less than 23 days. One trip was 28 days. One trip we had two large tents and an anti-mosquito screened tent for putting over picnic tables, as well as all the cloths, etc., and four people!......... got to have that usable space!

Over in the Samba, you can search the Photo Gallery and see a few photos I posted from various outings in the Vanagon...mostly the Alaska trips (AndyBees there too).

Why have a small Westy when you could take your very large Pusher Westy . I agree also about the oil fill/dipstick. It's nice to just open the plate and check the oil, especially when the back is full of luggage.

I too wish your Father the best, sounds like he's doing a bit better now.

Jon

You know, we purhased a rather nice Allergo Bay Diesel Pusher back in the fall of '07. I hate to say this, but here goes, we have never camped in it! Ouch!

Yes, I'll be doing the dipstick and oil filler tube at the license plate for sure!

That's funny Andy . It's probably so nice that even if you were up in the middle of nowhere it would still not be camping .

Rvs

jjordan11 said:

That's funny Andy . It's probably so nice that even if you were up in the middle of nowhere it would still not be camping .

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The Allegro Bay is a '92 model with the 5.9 Turbo charged Cummins! My intent was to tow my TDI Vanagon with the RV. Then, use the TDI Vanagon to do local touring wherever we camped!

Yep, it has about everything you can imagine....... two TVs, two heaters, two AC units, queen bed in rear with fold-out in front, shower & crapper, three power fridg, etc...... well, I'm sure you know the scoop on big RVs.

And, it loves diesel fuel............LOL

Update on project: I have been doing some work on the cluster modification and have lined-up another welder to "re-make" my oil pan! And, I have removed all the shields around the 1.9 gasser engine. I've also pressure washed the engine bay area, the tranny, the wheel wells, and the axle hole area going into the rear wheels.

Hi Andy,
I'm following your thread since several weeks. And ask myself.
Why don't you use the oil pan of the vanagon diesel to make your custom oil pan? In USA i've seen several custom oil pan like yours and thought it was because you havn't got original diesel vanagon pan.
Perhaps you have follow my project on "thesamba.com".
=>http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=404447&highlight=http://
Greets from France.
Stéphane.

Oil pan

Jabba said:

Hi Andy,
I'm following your thread since several weeks. And ask myself.
Why don't you use the oil pan of the vanagon diesel to make your custom oil pan? In USA i've seen several custom oil pan like yours and thought it was because you havn't got original diesel vanagon pan.
Perhaps you have follow my project on "thesamba.com".
=>http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=404447&highlight=http://
Greets from France.
Stéphane.

Click to expand...

Hi Jabba.... thanks for following my project.

The ALH TDI engine (99.5 thru 04) does not have the same block configuration where the oil pan bolts up as the earlier model TDIs and the "original diesel vanagon" oil pans.

In the first page of this Thread there are photos of the "original diesel vanagon" style oil pan mated up to the diesel bell housing. Notice that oil pan has an offset for the oil pump/vacuum pump, etc. That oil pan will not fit the ALH TDI engines as there are other differences also!

Thanks for your interest!

I see. You have not open my link above.

Jabba, very nice job grafting the two different pans together. Problem is you only get one shot at doing it. I went the route that Andy is doing because I was concerned I could not get the aluminum clean enough to weld. The diesel oil and soot really soak into the aluminum making it difficult to get a clean weld. Doing it Andy's way, I was able to work with "clean" aluminum. I'd like to see a picture of the finished pan if you have one though. mark

Hi Rsxsr,
You're right. You need a very, very, very clean pan before weld, to avoid holes in aluminium. But you're quite sure to have the right "angle".
You can see pics of my pan finish on the 1st page on the link above (on thesamba). You can clik on the images to increase the size.
And on the 2nd page you can see my pan on the engine fill with oil since several weeks. (work still in progress).
Stéphane.

Andy, I like what Jabba has done. I don't have my original diesel pan where I could find it. Probably back on the original engine stashed in the back of the shop. If you have the patience to fit it up, which I believe you do, it could come out quite nice, my pan leaks a drop a day at one of the welds on the very bottom. Following Jabba's pictures, you could end up with a nice custom pan. mark

Wow! Awesome work Jabba! I do apologize, cause I did not check out your project via the link. I was sort of on break from a job and intended to do so later. Yes, that is a very unique way to address the oil pan modification.

Well, I have given that approach some thought. However, as Mark said, "just one shot at it." So, rather than risk "wasting" a good 1.6 Oil Pan, I wanted to go down the road of total fabrication off the ALH Oil Pan! (Also, I have plans for that 1.6 Oil Pan....another project.)

Right now, that aspect of my project has been on hold. I had three TDI Timing Belt Jobs lined up during recent weeks as well as dealing with my Dad's health issues (he's much better). So, today, I finished the last of the TB jobs. This last one also included exchanging the Intake Manifold, EGR mod, oil/filter change, fuel filter, change, repair of side skirts/belly pan, repair of the lower valance, etc. I also cleaned out the Head Ports....... made a rounded curved scraper from a piece of aluminum.......... worked great!

Anyway, I'm going to concentrate on the project now!

I do have some pieces parts on order that I needed....... Power Steering Pump banjo fitting and AC stub lines off the compressor. Also, I got the clutch and brake switches a couple of weeks ago. The wiring components are now all ready for installing when the time comes.

Okay, just a quick update! Nothing really new! I'm still working on a few issues. I hope to have the oil pan finished in about two weeks.

I'm in the process of "improving" the fuel tank! Photos will be posted!

Improving, that sounds interesting. You'll have to expound on that a little when you get a chance (looking forward to the pictures). I was almost in your neck of the woods the past few days. I had some classes in Ohio for a couple days, too bad I had to fly out there, would have been a good road trip.

Well, maybe improving was a poor choice of words. However, since the tank has a tiny hole in it, anything I do to correct the problem will be an improvement.....LOL.Actually, the tank was something I picked up with a number of other items at a recycler 'find' last year (cheap). The tank had already been removed which is a requirement prior to crushing a vehicle. It had a VW paper sticker on it indicating it must have been a replacement. It really looks nice on the outside and thru the holes inside. Well, the hole is at the lowest point in the tank.....rust! So, my plan is to cut out the bottom center section of the tank (huge round hole). This will not be a major endeavor, I don't think. The plan is to inspect the rest of the tank, repair with special epoxy then coat the tank inside. I did the inside coat on my '83 Vanagon back in 1993. That was a big challenge!...... but, it works til this day!...no more interal rust issues!

Since I live about 3 miles due north of the Tennessee state line, Ohio is about 225 mile north from here. I use to live in Cincinnati (Norwood) many moons ago. Also, my brother use to live in Columbus. I have relatives that live near Dayton and a long time co-worker's family live in Dayton. And, I do have several relatives that live in the Buckeye state!

*EDIT: In the summer of 2014, I replaced this tank with an eBay purchase. It did leak just enough to keep the bottom "damp." But, considering I go into Canada and back into the USA, I was afraid the border agents might look under and see the patch on the tank and end with a search. So, it was time to replace it.

Okay, although I've not posted much info lately, work on the project is slowly moving along.

Here are photos of the fuel tank salvage project. This tank is in fairly good shape on the outside, especially the outside top which typically has rust issues. However, as stated in the previous post, it does have a hole in the bottom due to internal rust.

The plan is to cut out the center sump section for inspection and hopefully repair. The challenge will be to put it back with no leak results.

All views are from the bottom with the front of the tank at the top of the photos. The rust you can see where the holding straps are located on the bottom of the tank, is on the coating, not a problem.


Notice the the circle "marking" the cut line...also see the drilled hole for starting the jig-saw. The rust hole is just below and to the left.


Ready for the jig-saw ........... yes, it's safe....no gasoline fumes at all! The piece of wood only allows the jig-saw blade to go so deep. (I still cut the suction line....see if you can see it in one of the photos.


Here, the dremel was used to get past one of four baffles.


This photo depicts the cut almost completed. The X's mark the location of the four baffles. I changed jig-saw blades to finish those off.


This photo shows the sump out and facing up........ wow, lots of rust! Notice the hole to the left of the strainer. It has part of the other strainer broke off in it. You cannot see the pick-up hole for the big line on the left.


At the work bench, I heat and pry loose the two part sump. It is sealed with some sort of epoxy as well as four spot welds (dremel took care of those) You will be able to see the location of the spot welds in one of the photos below. See the white plastice piece to the left of the strainer. Well, that broke off the return strainer.


This photo shows the sump after I separated it into two pieces. Top right is the very bottom of the sump. You can see the four spot welds and some of the sealant. To the left is the top part of the sump with the intake strainer in the center. The hole to the left of the strainer is where the return strainer was located. The return strainer is still in the tank to the right there.


This photo is similar to the above, however the center section of the sump is flipped. In the flipped position, you can see the center hole where fuel enters the bottom of the sump after going thru the strainer. The hole to the left is for the pick-up line that takes fuel to the engine and the hole on the right is where the return fuel strainer is connected (remember, I broke it).


I plan to eliminate one or both of the strainers.......... if they ever get "plugged" with black algae, the tank will have to be removed and cleaned. (Remember, this tank will be holding diesel fuel.)

So, I may try to come up with a means to bolt (screws) the sump back on!......scratching head right now! Ideas welcome. I've considered using JB Weld. JB Weld is resistant to diesel fuel.....not sure about Biodiesel! I believe a round piece of aluminum can be temporarily put over the hole while treating the tank. Then, that cover can be modified and attached to the refurbushed sump. At that point, I will attach (screws with sealant or JB Weld) sump to the tank..... presto!

As for the rust, that will be addressed with etching acid, rinse with water, rinse with acetone to remove the water and then coated.

Andy, I have only looked in side my stock diesel tank. It was different from what you have posted. My tank had a removable fine mesh screen on the suction side. There is a plastic assembly attached to the inside of the tank that the mesh filter installs into. The original diesel rabbits had a similar setup. VW came out with a service bulletin that had us remove the in tank filter. It would become clogged with algae and was not easily servicable. VW must have felt the stock diesel filter would be adequate to catch any accumulation of algae.

I have had to drain my tank three times so far for removing it. For some reason, the tank actually drains better out of the return line than the supply line. Not sure why except the diesel return must be short and unrestricted. The supply side still has the gizmo that held the intank filter. I am not using any sort of external or internal supply pump for the injection pump. The injection pump seems to keep up with the gravity supply even when the tank level is low. It is a pain to bleed, but after the system is bled seems fine. I have considered adding an electric supply pump for that time when I need to bleed the system, but hate to have a pump running all the time and if I put it on a switch, would the additional pump add a restriction to the injection pump supply? Plenty of other things to concentrate on.

Last, you need to consider the location of the fuel pickup in the tank. It does need some sort of baffle arrangement. Otherwise on a low tank, fuel could move away from the pickup causing the injection pump to gulp air. My guess is the stock "gas" tank they needed to be more concerned about keeping the contamination out of the electric fuel pump, which might account for the setup you have. Also, the return on the gas engine would be a much higher volume than what was returned by the diesel. I would do all of my filtering externally. I am using the stock rabbit/vanagon diesel fuel filter on mine. It is sized to work with the injection pump by VW and does utilize a drain.

I would also be considering making a new tank from aluminum. The stock tank has some wasted space that could be redesigned to give you better range. The only hard part would be the filler neck, but you could have a flange and use a peice of hose to connect the filler neck to the tank. You could also come up with a better design for the tank vents that have the grommets that eventually fail and cause the tank to leak. There is nothing special about the stock tank that I think is worth trying to save other than the stock appearance. You could also design a baffel for the suction side that had the return into the suction baffle area. That would insure there was always fuel around the pickup regardless of the level and g forces. mark

Nice pictures of the tank. To be honest when you said modifications I was thinking more capacity . I like Marks idea of making an aluminum tank with baffles. Mine is leaking out of the breather lines, so maybe soon I'll be taking it out and trying to make a new one. Probably just pipe dreams for me right now due to time restraints.

There was a German company that produced a larger capacity T3 2wd fuel tank. Claer maybe? I remember seeing them in the past.

I pressure washed the inside of the tank today. Most of the "rust" come right off. So, doing the etching, rinsing and coating shouldn't be a tough job. Coming up with a method to re-install the sump will be the challenge!

Also, not visible in the photos is/was a small dent in the bottom of the tank. The dent was along the left bottom brace at the front of the tank. It was sort of long and deeper near the front bottom edge of the tank. I used a body shop small jack and piece of wood to smooth out the dent which probably gave me back at least a half gallon of space! It was a very tight fit to get the jack/wedge in there! Worked though!

Now thats a cool project!!!!

How's the electrolysis going?

Electrolysis........... well, the piece I cut out and the center baffle section are both rust free.

I have the tank almost ready to fill with water. I'll take some photos Monday or Tuesday night and post them.

I'm impressed with the Electrolysis process. When removing the metal that's being cleaned of rust from the "baking soda stew" (my term) it has to be rinsed with water immediately and then sprayed with Acetone! The Acetone absorbs the water quickly and gives you time to blow it all off with compressed air before a fine layer of rust begins to form.

Now, dealing with the inside of the tank may be tricky. However, according to Red-Kote, flaking off the larger rust scales is all that's necessary as far as rust removal. So, I feel pretty good about the electrolysis procedure. Not only will the rust scales be gone so will all the minor rust (the pressure wash made a big difference).

I've been using a 12 volt battery with a charger set on 2 amps. I used two pieces of rebar for the cathodes. The more cathodes in the water the faster and more thorough the electrolysis process is. The water becomes extremely "rust red" and looks to be a mess. However, the solution can be used over and over, occasionally adding water................the two gases are highly explosive (oxygen and hydrogen).

I'll document my procedures to "re-install" the hole that I cut out. I'm sure many have been scratching their heads.

*EDIT: In the summer of 2014, I replaced this tank with an eBay purchase. It did leak just enough to keep the bottom "damp." But, considering I go into Canada and back into the USA, I was afraid the border agents might look under and see the patch on the tank and end with a search. So, it was time to replace it.


Here are a few photos of the tank. You are looking at the bottom with the top of the photo being the front.

This photo shows the hole size and you can see it is much cleaner now after a nice pressure wash (see previous photos for comparison).


This photo gives a better look inside after the pressure wash.


This photo shows a piece of galvanized metal covering the hole. The blue marks identify the location of the baffles (remember, you are looking at the bottom of the tank).


This photo shows the metal cover in place with screws and RTV sealer.


The metal cover is only temporary for the Electrolysis process (dissolving the rust). When that procedure is finished, the metal piece and RTV will be removed. Then four sections will be installed inside the hole around the perimeter permanently to attach the sump and center baffle section with screws and JB Weld. Photos will follow as the fuel tank project progresses.

Looking good, I have heard that this electrolisis process is very thourough and it's good to see it in action here on your tank.

I had the chance to finally do an alignment on my Van last night and I was amazed at the adjustability of the angles. It was actually my first Vanagon alignment. It was feathering the insides of the front tires, but it's all good now.

Electrolysis and Vanagon alignment

jjordan11 said:

Looking good, I have heard that this electrolisis process is very thourough and it's good to see it in action here on your tank.

I had the chance to finally do an alignment on my Van last night and I was amazed at the adjustability of the angles. It was actually my first Vanagon alignment. It was feathering the insides of the front tires, but it's all good now.

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I visited a long time friend today that I had not seen in years and have not do anything to my tank. So, tonight I'll be flipping that tank over and filling it with water/baking soda to start the electrolysis. As Paul mentioned, I have to make sure the cathodes do not touch any metal on the tank. This is going to be challenging. Also, I'll take some photos of the sump and center section of the baffling. Hopefully the photos will reflect the electrolysis results on those two pieces.

Vanagon Alignment. My Van needs all new "stuff" in the front-end. The ball joints squeek, the torsion bar pops due to bad bushings, etc. The only reason this is worth mentioning is the fact that the new Michelin radials I purchased three years ago do not show any odd wear pattern. They have a little over 7k miles on them. So, apparently all those things that have worn out are still in align.....LOL I do have all the pieces-parts for a complete front-end overhaul!... just finding the time to do it!

Well, here is more on the tank salvage project...

This view is of the Stainless Steel twisted wire used for a Cathode (positive connection)


This is a view of the Cathode installed in one of the vent holes


This is a view of both Cathodes in vent holes


This is a view of the bottom of the tank after electrolysis (only about 12 hours). Notice the RTV being removed with the drill/brush. If you will notice, there is still some rust stains. The electrolysis seems to work better on the really pitted rust. It turns it black (bonding back the metal as I understand). However, the powdery surface rust tends to take longer. Anyway, I did use steel wool to knock loose anything that was left. In fact, I spent a little over an hour. Also, using Acetone and paper towels, I cleaned all surface areas inside the tank. According to Red-Kote instructions, only the larger flakes of rust need to be removed........... well, I guess of spent too much time, but I feel better about it anyway.


This is a view of the sump that was cleaned by electrolysis in a rather large plastic container


This is a view of the baffle section that sits on the sump. A very light coat of rust is still visible


View of tank after coating with Red-Kote..............Results may varying.....LOL


Another view after some clean-up around the hole


This is a view thru the fuel level sensor hole


This is a view of the fuel fill hole.



After curing for at least 24 hours, I'll commence the process of securing the baffle and sump into the big hole. I have coated them and they are also curing....just no photos.

Side note: According to Red-Kote instructions, the one quart will do a 12 gallon tank. Well, after almost an hour of rotating the tank, I poured out the residual................just about a half quart (that would be a pint). That amount can be thinned with Acetone and used for a second coat! Should I do a second coat?

That looks good Andy. You should never have to worry about rust in the tank.

Do the instructions of the red-coat say it's ok to do a second coat? I'd sure hate it to peel or flake off (if it's possible). I'm not familiar with that product to be able to answer if you should do a second coat or not.

Second coat

jjordan11 said:

That looks good Andy. You should never have to worry about rust in the tank.

Do the instructions of the red-coat say it's ok to do a second coat? I'd sure hate it to peel or flake off (if it's possible). I'm not familiar with that product to be able to answer if you should do a second coat or not.

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Yes, in fact, the instructions say that a second coat may be necessary. I was really amazed at how much was left over. If I had let the tank sit for a good while draining to the "drain" hole before removing the tape (plug), I feel certain there would have been two or three more ounces come out. The "excess" that was not poured out began to gell when the air hit it. It got fairly thick and stringy in a matter of minutes.

So, I guess the best approach is to allow the tank to drain (internally) for a long time before removing the tape (plug) from the hole you expect to drain from.

I used Golf Tees to plug the two vent holes on the rear of the tank. I did that internally. Well, one of the Tees did not fit well and allowed some of the coating to drain into it. Actually, the coating ran out the hole. When I went back to the garage late last night to check on things was when I found it. So, I immediately reached into the tank and pulled the two Tees out. Then with compressed air, I shot a little in. The vents are both open............ wow, that was luck!

Oh............... if anyone does the coating.....make sure you have plenty of ventilation! Yes, I did get a little light headed, even though I had garage door open and ceiling vent open!