fuel starting issue

Have just completed a total rebuild of my cylinder head, valves, guides, seals and lifters. Have the engine assembled, timed and the serp belt on, new coolant and now having issues trying to start. Had all the fuel lines from the pump to the cylinder head removed so they where dry at re assembly. Having the wife crank the engine while I break the fuel lines at each injector waiting for fuel then tightening the nut. Did notice that I didn't have much pressure/ fuel when I did this. So my question is how long will it take for the engine to fire after this is done? I have cranked it quite a few times and still no fire. How long should this take for the engine to fire.?

It can tank forever if the IP is full of air. Assuming this is the 2001. Suction on the return line from the pump, then crack the injectors.

Well I broke all the fuel lines loose at the injectors one at a time while the wife cranked the engine. Cylinder one and two had many bubbles then fuel. No fuel at lines to cylinder thee and four???? so broke loose the nuts at the pump for those two cylinders and no fuel.
So do I have a fuel/ air lock or???
What am I missing?

Sounds like air, have you pulled vacuum on the return side of the pump?

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yes, no results so will break the fuel lines again for air then repeat. good grief this sure takes a lot time.

Well did have some air trapped In the fuel lines but got that taken care of this morning, did the break loose fittings at the injectors and have much fuel squirting out. cranked her over five times for about a 15 count but still no fire. good grief how long will it take to get fuel into the cylinders and get fire?

If the pump was completely drained, it could take some time. Did one on a NB once, took almost an hour of on and off cranking. You're better off trying to apply vacuum to the return line to help it feed. Or gravity feed a bottle to the pump inlet.

Den said:

Well did have some air trapped In the fuel lines but got that taken care of this morning, did the break loose fittings at the injectors and have much fuel squirting out. cranked her over five times for about a 15 count but still no fire. good grief how long will it take to get fuel into the cylinders and get fire?

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If you listen to solutions that people suggest and decide not to follow them, it'll take much longer...

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WildChild80 said:

Sounds like air, have you pulled vacuum on the return side of the pump?

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Fuel filter full, pull vacuum (I just suck on a clear hose) on the return plumbing from the IP until you get fuel, then do the injectors.

I came here so I could repeat what everyone else said a few times. Ya know, just to be sure...

Yes, we can only try to help..........
Dan's gonna get it fixed

Now i'm wondering, when I did the t belt, had valve cover off, #1 cylinder cam lobes up, and cam locked, had # 1 cylinder at tdc, crank locked, inj pump was at top and pinned, now I think I have pulled all the air out of the system, plenty of fuel at the injector fuel lines, no fire. so could I have been 180 out and had everything locked like I thought it should have been? Will it fire if i'm one tooth off on the timing belt?

WildChild80 said:

Sounds like air, have you pulled vacuum on the return side of the pump?

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yes now have plenty of fuel at all four injectors. no fire.

Advance the pump just a hair

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^^ you should have enough room in the slots on the ip gear to adjust the timing to get it to fire. A little movement makes a lot of difference.

Den said:

Now i'm wondering, when I did the t belt, had valve cover off, #1 cylinder cam lobes up, and cam locked, had # 1 cylinder at tdc, crank lockedDid you verify the crank didn't move after torquing the cam? I've read where some crank locks are less than positive., inj pump was at top and pinnedAny chance you missed the correct hole?, now I think I have pulled all the air out of the system, plenty of fuel at the injector fuel lines, no fire. so could I have been 180 outDepending on your cam tool it could be but since the slot is off center you'd have to work at it to install it wrong. and had everything locked like I thought it should have been? Will it fire if i'm one tooth off on the timing belt?

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Might fire if a tooth off on the pump, might not. Easy enough to check by setting the crank at TDC and seeing if you can install the pin.

Ok, tore everything off that needed and rechecked everything, took number 0ne glow plug out , rolled engine to the timing mark on the bell housing and flywheel, as close as I could get it, like right spot on piston was at TDC
Cam lock went right in, ip pin went right in. had valve cover off, number one cylinder cam lobes up as pictured in manual. Everything checked out. at this point can something still be off? Did a repeat of purging fuel at injector fittings, plenty of fuel. NO FIRE
So I checked the shut off valve, don't know why I have fuel, so relay 109 is working, have glow plug light and all dash lites work.
NO FIRE. Next week I will advance the ip to see if it will fire then, if not maybe lay her to the rest.
Ran the Vag Com test with ignition on and it showed no fault codes, so????
At this pint i'm stumped as to why I get no fire.
Could there be an issue with the re built cylinder head like valves not completely closing or ????? As stated previously the head had new valves, and where match seated, new valve guides, seals and lifters, was told to use the same single hole head gasket as they only removed .005 off the combustion face.
WHAT AM I MISSING?

Pull the glow plugs out and crank. That will help the engine to turn faster and you won't be fighting the compression. When you see fuel coming out of all 4 glow plug holes, put the glow plugs back in.

Don't confuse stray fuel spilled at the base of the injectors as coming from the cylinders. Any spilled fuel will become airborn.

There is no point to compressing the air until you see fuel mist coming from the glow plug holes. Charge up the battery so you can really spin the motor.

Might be a silly question... How much fuel is in your tank?

Den, don't give up...it's worth it to keep it and figure it out.

I'll bet a few degrees of advance on the IP will get it going.

What cam lock tool did you use? If it was an 8mile lake, I've had a bad one and also had a good one. Bad one was a few degrees off

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note sure what's going on, but I am going to tear it all down again and re install and double check everything. I have have advanced and retarted the ip and still no fire. What bugs me is when I role it over and get the flywheel timing mark lined up perfect, the ip pin goes right in and the cam lock does also. ???

Well it certainly sounds like everything is right. Have you checked the ASV is not stuck closed or some big air pipes are loose?

One other thing to verify, do you have a good connection at the fuel shut-off valve wire/solenoid? Wire off, a good running engine will not fire. I freaked myself out one time after I had removed it for some reason.

Den said:

note sure what's going on, but I am going to tear it all down again and re install and double check everything. I have have advanced and retarted the ip and still no fire. What bugs me is when I role it over and get the flywheel timing mark lined up perfect, the ip pin goes right in and the cam lock does also. ???

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I wonder if you hit the dummy hole in the injection pump, not the correct one.
I had that with my 2nd timing belt.
Wouldn't start, had -minor- white smoke out the tail pipe.

When I got it correct the pump lock went in almost all the way.

Well after multiple check and adjustment still no fire, advanced the ip no fire, retarded the ip no fire. Today I ran a compression check on all four cylinders. They all read 240 psi. New spec is 363 - 450.
SO will this engine fire with that low compression? I think i'm in for a battle.

Minimum spec is 275psi, sounds like you'll need to do some investigating on why it's so low.

Had to go back and read the OP. So the head is all new, perhaps the lower end needs refreshed or the head gasket is not proper. 275 is not low, it's very low.
In the olden times, they would squirt a tablespoon or so of oil into each cylinder to see if compression comes up, indicating worn out rings. Don't know if that's a proper procedure for a VE engine.

I don't see why the oil trick wouldn't work. Did that on my motorcycle once upon a time and it showed valve adjustment was off. Curious, who built your head? Someone local?

Problem is getting the oil on the cylinder wall rather than in the piston bowl where it won't have the desired effect.

In another thread the OP asked questions about reworking the head; resurfacing, sinking the valves the same amount but not machining the valve stems, if I followed his description correctly. I wonder if the valves are being held open. He mentioned .005" but that doesn't seem like it would be enough to cause it.

Like I suggested in that thread, time for a blowdown test.

nero morg said:

i don't see why the oil trick wouldn't work. Did that on my motorcycle once upon a time and it showed valve adjustment was off. Curious, who built your head? Someone local?

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i had a very reputable shop rebuild the head, new valves, valve guides, seals and lifters. They took .005 in. Off the combustion face and told me to use the same hole type head gasket. They have been building engines for years, stock and hi performance, the tech that did my head was thier diesel guy. I had alot of confidence in them but now i think something went off course, 240 psi for compression is simply not right. Tomorro i will disconect the ip so i get no fuel. Crank the heck out of it to get good oil into the rings, then re connect the ip and see if i can get fire. If not the next step will be a leak down test and if that faild they better come up with a good answer and some cash because i will need another complete head repair kit with all gaskets and new head bolts, and they better make it right. Sorry for the rambling but this is just not right.