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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > TDI (Diesel) Emissions

TDI (Diesel) Emissions This is a discussion about emissions from TDI's. Pro's cons of Diesels (including biodiesel) effects on the environment and how they compare to Gasoline and other fuel sources for Internal combustion engines.

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Old September 14th, 2019, 16:41   #1
JazzBeBop
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Default Not Again! VW Caught Cheating With Its Diesel Emissions “Fix”

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/not-aga...emissions-fix/
VW is at it again...on the diesel "fix" and apparently, legally liable. So the question is: Are we (VW TDI owners) going to get mo' money? I hope so.
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Old September 14th, 2019, 19:07   #2
tadawson
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Likely not - the system in Europe is unrelated to that used in the US, as are the laws, judgements, fixes, etc..
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Old September 14th, 2019, 21:09   #3
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I like (not) how they faked up the picture of the exhaust for that "article". Even in the US they (car mfg) have done stuff like this for cold operations but it has to be disclosed and approved up front. When done properly and approved it isn't a cheat it is a "feature". Shame on you for being the greedy person you are. The cars are still some of the cleanest out there despite the cheat and lying about it. You are even driving one of the cars that doesn't have an approved fix IIRC and still wanting to profit from VW's error. Maybe they should just condemn your car and get it off the road. Sounds like you aren't so much worried about the environmental impact as how much money you can bilk out of VW.
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Old September 15th, 2019, 00:59   #4
turbobrick240
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The US and Canadian settlements are settled. It is disappointing that VW seems to be habitually up to dirty deeds. Old habits, I guess.
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Old September 22nd, 2019, 11:25   #5
JazzBeBop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightflyer1 View Post
I like (not) how they faked up the picture of the exhaust for that "article". Even in the US they (car mfg) have done stuff like this for cold operations but it has to be disclosed and approved up front. When done properly and approved it isn't a cheat it is a "feature". Shame on you for being the greedy person you are. The cars are still some of the cleanest out there despite the cheat and lying about it. You are even driving one of the cars that doesn't have an approved fix IIRC and still wanting to profit from VW's error. Maybe they should just condemn your car and get it off the road. Sounds like you aren't so much worried about the environmental impact as how much money you can bilk out of VW.
Shame on me? I'm greedy? Wow. If that is true, what word would you use to describe VW? Hmmm? Look, if VW screwed up, then that's their fault. IF they cheated ONCE, were held accountable, paid their dues, & I got paid ONCE, well then great. IF they cheated TWICE, are held accountable, pay their dues, and I get paid TWICE, that's VW's problem. By the way my car has already gotten "fixed" because it is a 2015 American NMS TDI SE. Yes, I absolutely agree with your statement and feel that these VW diesels are some of the are some of the cleanest vehicles on the road compared even to gas powered vehicles. Environment impact? I didn't design or make the car, nor do I own any oil or gas stocks. Yes, I could bite the bullet and choose to walk or ride a bike, or horse to work, but those means are not feasible: I live in Texas. We all know that the true alternative energy technology has been suppressed by those who have the most to lose: big oil & banks. What would change by "worrying" about the environment? Maybe my I would get more grey hair and shorten my lifespan. That dog don't hunt. So, now I'M milking VW? Poor "little VW". Here's their yearly profit in 2018 and previous: https://www.statista.com/statistics/...en-since-2006/

and here's 2019:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/volks...194600663.html

Yeah, I'M greedy. I should make a song titled "I feel greedy" and it should go something like this:

I feel greedy,
Oh, so greedy,
I feel greey and witty and bright!
And I pity
Anyone who isn't me tonight. I feel loaded,
Oh, so loaded
It's alarming how much money I feel!
And so greedy
That I hardly can believe VW's ordeal.
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Old September 22nd, 2019, 21:34   #6
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One word? Try "persecuted"! VW did far less than and got hit far harder tham othe US car companies, especially for a violation like this that exists on paper only . . .
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Old September 23rd, 2019, 01:00   #7
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I'd say "prosecuted" is more accurate. If you can't do the time, .... Our laws are more than mere suggestions.
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Old September 23rd, 2019, 06:35   #8
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There were plenty of arguments that the European fix wasn't enough and would really work at the time it announced. The problem is that the fix only had to be approved by one member of the EU board, and that member was Germany. Add to that, the European owners were not offered any settlement cash. So they have been a little bent out of shape for several years now.
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Old September 23rd, 2019, 20:35   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbobrick240 View Post
I'd say "prosecuted" is more accurate. If you can't do the time, .... Our laws are more than mere suggestions.
. . . and often the blatherings of unelected imbeciles . . . EPA regs are not laws, since they were not created by Congress, they are regulations . . .
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Old September 25th, 2019, 11:47   #10
Matt-98AHU
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzBeBop View Post
Shame on me? I'm greedy? Wow. If that is true, what word would you use to describe VW? Hmmm? Look, if VW screwed up, then that's their fault. IF they cheated ONCE, were held accountable, paid their dues, & I got paid ONCE, well then great. IF they cheated TWICE, are held accountable, pay their dues, and I get paid TWICE, that's VW's problem. By the way my car has already gotten "fixed" because it is a 2015 American NMS TDI SE. Yes, I absolutely agree with your statement and feel that these VW diesels are some of the are some of the cleanest vehicles on the road compared even to gas powered vehicles. Environment impact? I didn't design or make the car, nor do I own any oil or gas stocks. Yes, I could bite the bullet and choose to walk or ride a bike, or horse to work, but those means are not feasible: I live in Texas. We all know that the true alternative energy technology has been suppressed by those who have the most to lose: big oil & banks. What would change by "worrying" about the environment? Maybe my I would get more grey hair and shorten my lifespan. That dog don't hunt. So, now I'M milking VW? Poor "little VW". Here's their yearly profit in 2018 and previous: https://www.statista.com/statistics/...en-since-2006/
and here's 2019:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/volks...194600663.html
Yeah, I'M greedy. I should make a song titled "I feel greedy" and it should go something like this:
I feel greedy,
Oh, so greedy,
I feel greey and witty and bright!
And I pity
Anyone who isn't me tonight. I feel loaded,
Oh, so loaded
It's alarming how much money I feel!
And so greedy
That I hardly can believe VW's ordeal.
Lightflyer does have a point. The VW settlement in the U.S. is one of the most generous in history. Even wrongful death class actions in the past against large automakers didn't result in such a large pay out to consumers.

And in any result, the above argument is moot anyway. That article is in relation to the fix Europe got, and they got a lot more TDI variants than we did. They also got their "fix" long before the U.S. version was approved. Euro 5 rules under which most of the affected TDIs in discussion fall under (2009-2014) have more relaxed NOx targets than the U.S. tier 2 bin 5 rules that these were originally supposed to meet. And even the "relaxed" NOx targets in the court settlement are still stricter than Euro 5 regulations.

The U.S. fix was tested on roads in California with exhaust capturing and analyzing equipment in the vehicle, which makes it very difficult to cheat. Not to mention, the new "cheat" found in the Euro fix lists it as turning down emissions equipment effectiveness in above 32 C and below 10 C. I can promise you that some of the days in which the vehicles were being tested for approval for the fix on roads in Southern California, temperatures likely did at times exceed 32 C (just shy of 90 degrees F). It's a pretty frequent occurrence there. And, in California, the worst smog days tend to be the hottest and sunniest with the least wind. When it's cool out, especially in Southern California, it's generally because there's strong wind coming off the ocean, which also helps blow the pollution out of the local air, or it's raining, which the clearest days you'll see down there. Air pollution is generally not a problem on cool days there. But it absolutely is on hot days, and being that cars were tested on the road with mobile exhaust gas analyzers specifically in Southern California where above 32 C days are not uncommon, I would venture a guess and say the same exploit is NOT in the U.S. programming.

Not to mention, after the massive fines and restitution they had to pay in the U.S. specifically, do you really think they'd dare cheat some more here?

Let's also back up a little further to Europe's emissions laws. There actually IS a loophole that existed in their rules that allowed emissions equipment to be shut off if it meant the conditions under which they were operating would do "engine damage." Now, it's arguable that engine damage would not occur outside of that temperature window, but the fact remains a loophole in Europe's smog rules did exist to allow this. It's actually the same loophole Opel was found exploiting and I don't recall hearing much about them getting hit with fines and having to deploy fixes.

So, all that wordiness aside, no, I don't think there's going to be a second round of restitution and scandal for U.S. owners. So sorry.
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