32MPG need some help

Looking for some help with my 03 Golf. I currently get about 31-32 mpg city driving and 34 mpg hwy and i cannot figure out what is causing it. I have read many posts discussing fuel economy issues and cannot seem to pinpoint my issue. This car does haze under just about any boost and smokes black pretty good before boost comes on if i mash it. I do drive fairly spirited to keep the engine cleaned out and vanes moving.

Vehicle details:
- 320,000 miles
- Original Injection Pump - seems kinda loud and do get smoke at startup
- VNT17
- 1019 nozzles that were hot swapped so should be balanced (60K miles on these)
- Malone stage 4 tune
- Deleted EGR
- 2.5" mandrel downpipe w/o CAT
- Timing Belt was done about 20K miles ago
- Intake cleaned 20K miles ago
- Fuel Filter - new <1500 miles
- Air Filter - new <1500 miles
- No boost leaks
- Brakes are not dragging
- New wheel bearings
- Snow Screen is clean
- MAF - NEW and VCDS confirms its working
- Coolant temp sensor confirmed working with VCDS
- Pump Timing - just above blue line at 47 and 130 fuel temp
- IQ is set at 5.2
- IQ Idle Stabilization (block 13) @idle
- Cyl 1 0.00 mg/str
- Cyl 2 -0.24 mg/str
- Cyl 3 -0.02 mg/str
- Cyl 4 0.26mg/str



I did email Malone inquiring about my concern and after i showed them boost logs and IQ setting they did not make any recommendations.


Thoughts on what i can check from here?

Is my injection pump going out? it does seem pretty loud

thanks

Is that mpg consistent if you get fuel at different stations?

I take a 4-5mpg hit if I fill up at the local mobile station vs the Kwik Trip that sells BD5.

-Rick

Yes, it is fairly consistent with fuel around chicagoland. I typically purchase fuel at Speedway or Shell.

I have a much harsher tune and build and 32 is about my driving habit norm
Go get a scangauge2 and learn to stay off the pedal. I can and have gone cross country and got at best 62mpg. If I drive normally like my grandma would, I can get about 53 to 55.
Am I to assume that this is a new mpg issue or was it like this soon as you finished the upgrades?
Toss a bot more boost at it, see if you can get a few psi lower down.

Seems like your fuel eco is similar to mine, with very similar hardware. I did the hotswap as well, and had a steady decline from 38mpg to 28. I currently have my injectors out being tested to see if they are the culprit after doing so many repairs, including having my injection pump rebuilt.

I'd suggested giving this particular post a read, see if your injector balance is all haywire on the second injection stage.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=5532969&postcount=55

boostinprine said:

Yes, it is fairly consistent with fuel around chicagoland. I typically purchase fuel at Speedway or Shell.

Click to expand...

I usually use BP Diesel. I filled up with Speedway and I'm seeing a 3-4 MPG loss. I'm in the Dayton Ohio area

I've never seen a difference in stations, I use 3 or 4. No B products available, I'd like to try B5 or B20. I do see a small mpg hit in winter and once after a big hurricane.

I have done a few tanks being easy on the car and it doesn't change much. Oddly if i hammer on it constantly or drive it like a grandma it gets roughly the same miles/tank.

When i bought the car it was stock with 215K and i only saw around 38mpg, it always smoked a lot so i thought the nozzles were shot so i did the 1019s, which after that never got more than 34mpg. After seeing what others seem to be getting i have always been frustrated with this car and assumed it was needing a tune to get the mpg back up since it was smoking heavily. So then i did everything else and still no better, if anything got a little worse.

I will try to get the second injection stage numbers again, last night i couldn't figure out how to increase idle to 1500. using the throttle to get to 1500 the numbers did not chance all that much from idle.

I assume this is a manual transmission car. If so, then your FE is at least 10 MPG lower than it should be, even with spirited driving in a suburban/urban area.

I think there's something wrong with the way your car is set up. Boost not meeting request, injectors not set up properly, mechanical timing off, tune delivering too much fuel, IP worn...could be any number of things, or all of these things to a small degree, adding up to a big FE hit.

yes it is manual, it actually has a 6-speed swap.

I agree with you that something is off, which is why i identified all of the specs in my original post to see if anything else can be checked.

- actual boost is meeting requested boost
- injectors were hot swapped and were supposed to have been balanced 60K ago, how do you recommend i verify they are still good?
- mechanical timing is as i mentioned just above the blue line 47 @130 fuel temp. If you are referring to cam timing it is not off, i have done the timing belt twice since owning this car.
- tune delivering too much fuel - how can i check this?
- Injection Pump - how can i verify if this is good? i am a bit confused on how it is checked. it is original with decent miles on it and i think its noisier than most other TDI's i see.

thanks

First, look at timing in measuring blocks and in basic settings in VCDS. If the numbers are different, then the mechanical (pump, crank, cam) setting are off.

Also in VCDS, look at injector balance. Ross-Tech provides info on what is an acceptable level of deviation between injectors. Make sure you're in range.

Run a log of actual versus requested fuel delivered. If the pump isn't meeting request at WOT it indicates a tired pump.

As I said above, it's usually not one thing that causes low FE, it's the accumulation of a lot of little things.

I can tell you that my '02 Wagon with stock turbo, RC3+, PP357s, 11mm pump, PD150 breathing mods and a 2.5" exhaust averages 46 MPG according to Fuelly. Last few tanks were right around 50 MPG. I sit in some traffic, do a lot of suburban driving, and typically run at 75-80 on the highway. So you should be doing better.

well i think i might have found something last night, my MAF appears to be way off now.

Boost comparison

Injected quantity comparison

If the ECU sees air, it delivers fuel. Fuel makes boost, boost makes power. If the MAF is off, everything else will be, too.

I'm running a stage 4 tune and everything is spot on just like you. I get 28-32 in city and 36-42 on the highway. With three of us getting the same FE with the same setup, maybe this is just normal FE.

My MAF is a 3.0 bar sensor, do you have the same?

Maybe the tune could be revised for better FE. I've run Rocketchip 3, 4, 5, and 6 on my Wagon, and none of them delivered less than 40 MPG, except on the race track.

Just some notes.
That level tune may be affecting the MAF readings, check with Malone (again).
Air is a big part of fuel. If the ECU sees too much or too little air, it will affect the amount of diesel used.
I don't interweb guess it's your injectors, but here are some notes from Frank-
Block 13 may show deviation between injectors... maybe not... but block 15, liter per hr usage, will show how much fuel you engine is burning. An idle fuel usage number for an ALH should be around .4 lph, and at 2,000rpm, it should be around 2.2, but can be as low as 1.8lph. The problem remains, if you don't have injectors popping at an optimal pressure, it's harder to determine which is bad or if the set is bad.

Has anyone seen a MAF fail where actual is higher than specified? everyone that i have seen fail has been lower then specified. I did replace this MAF with the latest Bosch design about 2 years ago, kinda disappointed that it appears to be bad already...

Thanks for the comparisons, Its possible that its the Malone tune, but i want to rule out any hardware issues before going to that point.

I refuse to believe that "this is just our fuel economy." Frank told me that the 1019s were actually designed to be a fuel economy nozzle, not a power nozzle. And there's lots of other people out there getting much better fuel eco than us with similar or more aggressive hardware/tunes. Somethings wrong, we just haven't figured it out yet.

Maf reading higher than specified is OK to an extent. What are your readings?

My MAF readings are in Post #12, the biggest difference was specified is 850 and actual is 1270.

boostinprine said:

My MAF readings are in Post #12, the biggest difference was specified is 850 and actual is 1270.

Click to expand...

If you uploaded photos, they aren't showing on my end. Explains why I missed them. Under what conditions are these readings taken? Idle? Hard pull in 3rd? If it's a hard pull in 3rd those numbers look normal. Usually when a maf fails it won't read over 800.

Links in Post #12 are dead to me. Not knowing much about it, if the MAF requested just sits, it could be the tune.

I know with kerma, on EGR deleted engines the MAF request stays at 850 at all times. Unsure of Malone, but I'd imagine it's the same. As long as your actual is moving like it should, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

interesting, not sure why the images don't show up, the do for me.

Thats good to know about the MAF, i will email Malone to see what they have to say.

I just looked at block 15 and at idle it reads .6-.7lph and at 2K rpm it reads 2.2lph.

deviation between injectors is roughly .5 as the lowest is -0.24 and highest is +0.26.

all of the data is at WOT in 3rd and 4th gear.

Nero Morg said:

Frank told me that the 1019s were actually designed to be a fuel economy nozzle, not a power nozzle.

Click to expand...

I have no idea what this means.

If you have a VCDS (or equal) you should be able to identify the tune.
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You could have dirty injectors. Try Fuel Power additive, and double the dosage for a tankful or two, then standard dosage after that to maintain cleanliness. I used it for many vehicles over many years.

would any of you guys be willing to help me with my logs? I sent the logs to Malone and they told me numbers were good. I am still having lower FE each time I fill up, and 95% of my driving is city. I have the logs I took in 3rd gear pulls with a Stage 3 tune with the Firad 502 (0.216) injectors, stock turbo and IP. I still feel there may be something wrong but can't pinpoint it and I know you guys have more brainpower that I will ever have regarding my TDI. I appreciate your feedback.


https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1behTrGk0xafI0SSK0mhMGZpXk4_JbWkk?usp=sharinghttp://

I know this may be a little simple but here it goes. My MPG's kept going down little by little over the last 6 weeks. Did an oil change, oil, fuel and air filter and mine went down to 31 MPG's where is usually 38 MPG's over all driving 50/50 city and highway. Rotated my tires last weekend and and checked my air and 3 of my tires were in the low 20's. I run EL tires so the sidewalls didn't show how low they were. I can already tell the MPG's are up as I have almost 600 miles on this tank and still have short of 1/4 of a tank.

@320,000 miles cam wear?
Had mine replaced a few thou ago and getting 52+mpg, previous owner said ~46.

boostinprine said:

Has anyone seen a MAF fail where actual is higher than specified?

Click to expand...

I wonder if a boost leak could cause it.
Easier for air to escape, more air goes through.