Early signs of slipping clutch. What is recommended for stage 2 performance tuning?

ToddA1 said:

I’ll add this. Go to Harbor Freight and invest in an engine bar. This job will be near impossible if you’re just using a floor jack.

-Todd

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OH BIG TIME

i forgot to get one and i just ended up putting some long bolts on the open spaces on the fender where the hood stand is area, and cut a 4x4 of lumber i had laying around, some misc pieces of wood and some bolts here and there and 4 engines straps later!!!!! it works but was ghetto AF and i would NOT do it again if i was not pressed for time like i was.

defiantly get this tool! but you could just park it under a tree on wheel stands and strap the engine to the tree branch and risk your life like i have seen way to many times!

Gentlemen, thank you so much for the good recommendations.

I also decided to install .658 "taller" 5th gears while I have the transmission removed. Found a set in eBay-Europe cheap cheap cheap. I've read up on what is needed, and I've done this sort of thing before. I'm actually pretty excited about the swap!

0.658, 27/41 tooth 5th gears arrived!

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Your one step closer to 55mpg on average

mongler98 said:

your one step closer to 55mpg on average

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*squeeee*

A B4V will not pull 55mpg, even with taller gearing, unless your commute is downhill in both directions with a tailwind.

Mongler, do you pull these facts out of your a$$ or the dumpster next to your house?

I said closer, and it has been done

Windex said:

A B4V will not pull 55mpg, even with taller gearing, unless your commute is downhill in both directions with a tailwind.

Mongler, do you pull these facts out of your a$$ or the dumpster next to your house?

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https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=425856
What now?

I currently own this car:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=27764

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=211631

Mongler98 said:

https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=425856
What now?

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One five-year-old advertisement where the seller is claiming 55mpg.

Play poker?

I'll see your single advertisement (which I would consider biased right from the get-go) and raise you:

http://www.fuelly.com/car/volkswagen/passat/1996?engineconfig_id=291&bodytype_id=&submodel_id=

There you will see statistically valid mileages for many diesel B4V's

Showing a weighted average of:

Based on data from 51 vehicles, 2,691 fuel-ups and 1,790,784 miles of driving, the 1996 Volkswagen Passat gets a combined Avg MPG of 42.67 with a 0.22 MPG margin of error.

Your claimed 55 mpg is an extreme outlier.

How many passat B4Vs have you owned and for how many miles? How many of those with a taller than stock 5th (or 6th) gear?

I ran mine with a taller than stock 6th (eurotuning kit) for 200k miles. I could have driven 55 with a tailwind everywhere, but that would defeat the tall 5th (6th in my car's case) as the engine would be lugging pretty bad at those speeds.

WINDEX
well, the gear its self is not going to do that DURRR.
are you going to call out inddigobluewagon? Or can you pick apart the many threads about the mods it takes to get here? What have you done to yours? seems like not much so im sure its not getting past 43~???
why are you so jumpy?
there are plenty of cases where these cars can get up into the 50'smpg and past 55mpg I see threads and posts about the b4's getting into some crazy 70+ i have my skepticism about that, 55 is a (in my mind) easy number to creep up to and plenty of threads support this.
i dont own any, i read, A LOT, i mean dude, i spend hours every night just reading old threads, i have nothing better to do with my 4 hours of free time from 11pm to 3 or 4am, my son is on life support at night only and my wife and i take turns taking night shift so he wont die in his sleep. Look up CCHS, https://rarediseases.org/rare-diseases/congenital-central-hypoventilation-syndrome/
tell you what, so you dont have to, tonight ill try and look up a bunch of owners, PM them about the old threads about their cars, and see if anyone still has them, or you can take our word for it or you can just keep smearing crap all over me like always but you will do that regardless so i don't even know why i try!
i have however got 62 on average on cross country trips in my AHU (heavily modified), thats 75mph on cruise control for a full tank. if i take her to autocross or trackcross as i have many times, i get a measly 22mpg as when im on the track with her, she gets 8mpg yes 8. those 764's sure pump that fuel out there!
maybe im wrong, maybe everyone is BSing their numbers, i dont, i go off my scangaugeII fill up numbers and my excell sheet for my mileage.
man i wish she was still on the road.

Jumpy? Hardly. I just call out BS when I see it.

Those threads - did you even read them?

The prior owner is quoting short trips as one time events. That, and the car is not a wagon, has lower weight and better aerodynamics.

I could do 100mpg in my B4 when I wanted to - big deal - I would have to (like the threads you quote) selectively pull data from a short trip to mold the data to overstate the mileage.

Try if you want, you can't refute that the average B4V will get far lower than 55mpg on a regular basis.

I only call you out because you tend to spew more BS than most.

Mongler98, I'm sorry your son is in need of so much care.

I love all this banter. I am going to try hard to achieve a semi-consistant 55mpg. If I can figure out how to do that I will attempt to drive from Canada to Mexico on one tank of gas. That's my new dream. LOL.
My best tank of gas has been about 1075 miles on 24.3 gallons. That was with max AC running, going around 70ish, on rolling hills, but trying to be mindful of MPGs. I would need to get about 57mpg to go the 1,380 miles down Interstate 5 from Canadian Seattle to Tijuana.

Windex said:

Jumpy? Hardly. I just call out BS when I see it.

Those threads - did you even read them?

The prior owner is quoting short trips as one time events. That, and the car is not a wagon, has lower weight and better aerodynamics.

I could do 100mpg in my B4 when I wanted to - big deal - I would have to (like the threads you quote) selectively pull data from a short trip to mold the data to overstate the mileage.

Try if you want, you can't refute that the average B4V will get far lower than 55mpg on a regular basis.

I only call you out because you tend to spew more BS than most.

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Windex, did you look at the links I posted above? Jack (BRUSSELS) did get well over 55 MPG. And some of these were for full tanks. I would characterize his driving as akin to having a tail wind both ways, and it would not be my preference, but he did it.

I've found that his (former) car will easily top 50 MPG in normal driving with little effort. And it's rare to see a tank less than 45 MPG.

Fair enough, what I'm trying to get across is that those are the exceptions. The average B4V being heavier and with worse aerodynamics than the sedan will not consistently return 55mpg as some in this thread claim.

I hypermile once in while like the rest of them and have also returned some crazy mileages on a tankful - came within 4 miles of the 1000 mile club back when I had my Mk4, which on those cars is a challenge (not so much with the 26 gallon tank in the B4V).

I fell obligated however to provide counterpoint to those (unlike yourself) who only show a very slanted version of things.

For every 55mpg B4V, there is another out there only returning 35mpg. Depends on your commute, driving style and commitment to fuel savings.

****wave****

That’s me in the 35mpg club, in all 3 of my TDIs. Exactly what you mentioned.... my lack of commute (sub 7 miles) littered with traffic lights and traffic.

When I actually let the cars stretch their legs, I do see an improvement.

-Todd

Windex said:

Fair enough, what I'm trying to get across is that those are the exceptions. The average B4V being heavier and with worse aerodynamics than the sedan will not consistently return 55mpg as some in this thread claim.

I hypermile once in while like the rest of them and have also returned some crazy mileages on a tankful - came within 4 miles of the 1000 mile club back when I had my Mk4, which on those cars is a challenge (not so much with the 26 gallon tank in the B4V).

I fell obligated however to provide counterpoint to those (unlike yourself) who only show a very slanted version of things.

For every 55mpg B4V, there is another out there only returning 35mpg. Depends on your commute, driving style and commitment to fuel savings.

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I would agree with Windex on this, and what I find most disturbing from the links that others have provided is that we have people who actually went out and tried to see exactly how efficient their cars were or could be, which is the very definition of inefficiency since that was their entire purpose for being out there.

Since when has driving down a full tank of fuel become efficient? I am slack-jawed to read about people doing this. Is this the only thing people have to do out there? **** I wish I had that kind of free time!

I drive my car when I need to and I don't much pay attention to the mpg until I fill it and it's typically within a certain bandwidth and right at or slightly above 50. I am fine there with how I drive and I'd rather not spend a lot of time fussing over why I got 1/10th less mpg this trip over the last, nor am I willing to see if I can nurse it up much further, that typically involves slowing down and I'm not going to do that, it's boring enough where I live driving on the highways as it is.

In closing I will say that 2-3 cars that happen to get into the 60's is an outlier in statistics, and that is pretty much borne out by the data shown in fuelly. And as IBW said the one guy seemed to have a perpetual tail wind...which is inconsistent with randomness so either he's lying or he's lucky.

Steve

You guys sound a little envious. I am confident that Jack wasn't lying, he wouldn't have any reason to. And I remember him telling me about the trip to FL: He had to go there for his work in the military, he wasn't wasting his time to just drive through a tank of fuel, as some have written here.

I've owned a lot of TDIs, and I've learned that some get better FE than others, no matter how well they're set up. Jack's (now my) B4 is one that gets good FE. My Fuelly average in the time I've owned it is 47.7 MPG. And it's been my spare car, for kids and visitors mostly. So it's hardly been driven for efficiency, and it still does well.

IBW also does well: my average over the last 180K miles is 46.4 MPG. A lot of those miles were with a 17/22 turbo, Rocketchip Stage 6, and PP502 nozzles. Still did well. And now that it's dialed back a bit I often see 50 MPG on a tank. I try to drive smoothly and efficiently, but if traffic is going 80 or 90, so will I. That car just does well.

I owned a '97 Jetta that was the opposite. Almost impossible to get tanks above 45 MPG. Not sure why. So these cars vary. And so do drivers. Some (Lug_Nut for one) have gotten amazing FE with a B4V. So may the OP.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

You guys sound a little envious. I am confident that Jack wasn't lying, he wouldn't have any reason to. And I remember him telling me about the trip to FL: He had to go there for his work in the military, he wasn't wasting his time to just drive through a tank of fuel, as some have written here.

I've owned a lot of TDIs, and I've learned that some get better FE than others, no matter how well they're set up. Jack's (now my) B4 is one that gets good FE. My Fuelly average in the time I've owned it is 47.7 MPG. And it's been my spare car, for kids and visitors mostly. So it's hardly been driven for efficiency, and it still does well.

IBW also does well: my average over the last 180K miles is 46.4 MPG. A lot of those miles were with a 17/22 turbo, Rocketchip Stage 6, and PP502 nozzles. Still did well. And now that it's dialed back a bit I often see 50 MPG on a tank. I try to drive smoothly and efficiently, but if traffic is going 80 or 90, so will I. That car just does well.

I owned a '97 Jetta that was the opposite. Almost impossible to get tanks above 45 MPG. Not sure why. So these cars vary. And so do drivers. Some (Lug_Nut for one) have gotten amazing FE with a B4V. So may the OP.

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Not envious at all, I just don't care, my results are what they are for my driving style and setup. I don't hypermile at all, it's annoying to try and do it let alone how it impacts others on the road, it's just too much work.

As for not wasting time just to drive here's the snippet from the thread:

Valid point, "Lug Nut." That's why I am seriously considering another all out fuel economy run this summer. The target is the absolute record of 1400 miles, that I believe was set by a B4 wagen. To do so, I'll have to get 74 miles per gallon! Let the quest begin!

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Now that sounds to me like driving just to be driving. And bear in mind the use of the word "another" which clearly means he's been at it before.

Again, there are outliers but they are very few, the fuelly results are pretty clear about what the bulk of these cars are getting for MPG.

Steve

I have a feeling many are envious of my sub 7 mile commute, although it still takes roughly 20 minutes...

-Todd

Going in this morning. I intend to replace the clutch, replace the 5th gears, and rebuild both of the axle's inner and outer boots.

Supper nice.
Best part of auto repair is buying parts and admiring them before you never see them again!

Supper is nice, but breakfast may be my favorite meal...

FYI, that Teflon rear main seal gets installed dry and you’re supposed to let it sit, for at least a few hours, prior to starting the engine. I’d wait 24 hours if possible.

Since you’re replacing the CV boots, you may want to swap the joints from one shaft to the other. It’ll give a new wear area.

-Todd

Thanks for the good thoughts!
It took about an hour and a half and the transmission came right out! ...And then I got a surprise call from work. I have part-time gig as an ambulance driver, and was offered some extra hours if I could get there quick. So I cleaned everything up, put away my tools, made a couple sandwiches, and dashed off to the station. We're expecting some big rains, but fortunately everything is all put away and patiently waiting for me to get back in 2 days. Funny how things like that work out, but I am thankful for the extra Cha-Ching Moolaa! (Too bad I couldn't install that seal before I left!)

ToddA1 said:

Supper is nice, but breakfast may be my favorite meal...

FYI, that Teflon rear main seal gets installed dry and you’re supposed to let it sit, for at least a few hours, prior to starting the engine. I’d wait 24 hours if possible.

Since you’re replacing the CV boots, you may want to swap the joints from one shaft to the other. It’ll give a new wear area.

-Todd

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Ditto on both of Todd's suggestions, be sure to thoroughly clean the crank end with brake clean or alcohol (on a rag) before installing the seal. Then wait the requisite time before moving anything.

I swapped CV joints from one axle to the other when I rebooted my axles back in 2016.

Looks like a good start.

Steve

Got home this morning and finished everything but the Axles today. Not too shabby after a 48 hour shift at work.

ToddA1 said:

I have a feeling many are envious of my sub 7 mile commute, although it still takes roughly 20 minutes...

-Todd

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That could be Todd!

Last time I had a sub 7 mile commute was back in 1990 when I could come out the back door of the apartment and cross two parking lots and walk into the back door of the biz I worked for, now that's a nice short commute!

Steve

Phi1osopher said:

Got home this morning and finished everything but the Axles today. Not too shabby after a 48 hour shift at work.

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YAY! All done. Car runs great. 5th gear makes the RPMs lower. The fresh CV axles (swapped left-to-right and new boots) are, um, rotating at a constant velocity.

This job ended up being a bit more work than I remembered, but now that I'm done I am so glad I did it!

I had to look up this thread to remember some info, and I thought I'd bump it back up with a short update.
It's been about 4 months and about 8,000 miles since I did the work, and I basically forgot about it! I am 100% happy with the clutch. Sometimes I drive the car as hard as it will go, and the clutch is perfect. Also, the supposedly noisy VR6 clutch never made any noise.

Yes, 120% - buy a harbor freight "engine bar" to do this job! Would be almost impossible for a solo dude to do this in his driveway without one!!

The upgraded/taller 5th gear mod was easy to do, and I don't even think about it anymore. Or in other words, when installed in a basically bone stock 1996 B4V tdi wagon, the taller 0.658, 27/41 tooth 5th gears do not noticably impact daily driving. Before I installed the gears I was pretty nervous about how this one might negatively impact daily driving. I was worried it might make the car bog or feel slow, but it basically feels the same as before, except I now get a bit better MPGs.

*Shrugs. I guess no news is good news, which is great! It's nice to fix something and do some upgrades and have everything go so well that I just kinda forget about them!

ToddA1 said:

I have a feeling many are envious of my sub 7 mile commute, although it still takes roughly 20 minutes...

-Todd

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I have a sub-7-mine commute and it will take me roughly 40 minutes. Welcome to Los Angeles.

For what it’s worth I have Malone Stage 2, DLC 1019 injectors and the Sachs quiet clutch kit on my TDI and it holds fine.