Water Methanol injection on a TDI?

If you want the system to be budget friendly. I would not buy Boost Juice from Snow or methanol in cans. You can get it from HEET a water remover for fuel systems at local parts store. I grab 3 bottles and add it to my washer fluid reservoir. Which is what I use for my w/m tank. Cheap and last's awhile.

Methanol in the water is also extremely volatile and aids in cooling the intake charge as it evaporates. It is also an additional fuel source.

I have been told that water vapor in the combustion chamber, as a byproduct of combustion or otherwise, produces additional torque because it can soak up heat and expand a lot. Using heat that other wise may have been rejected to do useful work.

I have recently purchased and installed a stage3 mpg max kit from snow on my 1998 jetta which has an 11mm pump and k03/k04 and I notice a decent power increase. As for mileage... The jury is still out. You have to set the initial injection high enough to avoid quenching combustion and beginning misfiring. Snows manual suggests a 10psi threshold and I have to agree. Much lower than that and it has had problems for me. So it is only used for acceleration and prob won't affect mileage much but who knows?

IMO it is an reasonably easy to install mod that yields noticeable power gains with affair margin of safety as long as it is set up properly.

I realize this thread is quite old, however...I see everybody is injecting, post intercooler...why wouldn't you inject pre-intercooler? Or maybe both?

Thanks,

Tom

Thomas83 said:

I realize this thread is quite old, however...I see everybody is injecting, post intercooler...why wouldn't you inject pre-intercooler? Or maybe both?
Thanks,
Tom

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Because spraying before the IC would amount to cooling the IC. It also increases the change of fall-out, the mix coming out of the air and puddling in the IC.

I'm still active and ready for questions.


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aronhk_md said:

But my experience in meth/water injection is with my 1973 Trans Am, nicknamed The Beast. She makes approx. 1200 hp @ 15 psi on pump gas,

Cant say I noticed any improvement in mileage 13 mpg on the highway is IT.

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Wow - you're getting roughly double my fuel economy, and you have more than twice my horsepower under the hood. What's the Beast's towing capacity?

This site might help
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems....-Methanol-Injection-Nozzles/article_info.html

What Injector size are you planning to Install?

I running the 250cc nozzle from coolmist but I am running it more for keeping the engine clean than for more hp
When I first installed and ran the water injection, the exhaust did have a different smell then normal.
Could be from the windshield wiper fluid or just cleaning the build up

Water Methanol injection

I'm running Snow Preformance MPG-MAX
Duel stage kit
100ml/min nozzle coming on@ 8psi at 100%
375ml/min @20psi at 100%
Running 75/25 water to methanol. Need the cooling more than power.
I can see 40-100*C reduction in temps at full throttle was 800*C + on long hard pull . Now 680-770*C
And a separate system on 50/50 mix Isopropyl alcohol and methanol @ 225ml/min nozzle just for power.
Car is 09 Jetta TDI with CR170, Malone tune(3.5 customized) and Darkside S3 intercooler and hard piping kit. Full 2.5 exhaust.
Doing more testing to find the limit of EGT cooling without flame out.
I have come up with a power blend using methanol, Isopropyl alcohol, Each alcohol has a different molecular make up to aid in combustion. Plus the isopropyl alcohol already has 30% water in it.

Have you ever thought about putting some hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) in the mix?
I been thinking about it but have not tried it yet.
I picked up some wiper fluid today maybe I will add some fort or rows run

Water Methanol injection

I have researched that... They warn to stay away from strong oxidizers. They will cause/Promote pre mature failure of metal parts due to corrosion of the parts if it sits in system over long term.
I do know someone who tried the high concentration 35% peroxide on a 12v Cummins and said it was crazy power adder and visibility less smoke on WOT . But at $50-60 a gallon for 35% peroxide, No2 is a better/cheaper choice.

Thanks for the tip.
Guess I would have to save that idea for if I ever build a drag car

I'm using some WMI parts from previous projects to put together a system with a 200 psi pump, a .3mm (M0.8) jet pre-turbo, coaxially located at the compressor inlet, and another .4mm (M1.9) jet pre-ASV, coaxially mounted inside of the end of the coupler before the ASV.

I'll test and measure the jet flow rates later and do before and after dyno testing, eventually with different jets to tune in the system. I'll be using either -25* rated washer fluid (33% methanol) or 50/50 when the local race shop stocks methanol in season.

I expect a cleaner intake tract and EGT reductions. I would like to see a little power and MPG increase, but we'll see.

To see a great EGT reduction (150°F + in 2.0 CR 200+hp) need to be flowing at least 400ml/min(6 gph) OF WATER.. So when using windshield washer fluid you need to flows 33% more fluid to account for water displaced By methanol.
Water= EGT cooling and cylinder pressure, torque
Methanol = intake cooling and hp power

I did run a 100 mL a minute nozzle pre-turbo for about six months. When I removed intercooler I did notice a lot of pooling of water in intercooler due to condensing. I decided to move it to post intercooler just at the outlet and now have three nozzles in the intake tracked from intercooler to intake.
Even with just putting about 20 gallons threw it in six months I did notice a lot of compressor wheel leading edge erosion.

Interesting and good to know. I'm surprised at the high flow rates required. These jets were for a tuned Mazdaspeed6 pre-turbo setup, which had a 5 gph nozzle in the intake plenum. This would have been adding 1 or 2 gph to that pre-turbo. Sounds like I'll need a larger nozzle in the pre-ASV location here.

How was your pre-turbo nozzle mounted before? I'm not a fan of the "hole in the intercooler" method to prevent de-icing some other users use, but I was planning on doing just that and plugging it with a silicone plug to allow me to check or drain the intercooler as needed. Hopefully it won't need it, or I may remove it, as you did. I'll check on compressor erosion at jet changes. Thanks for the input.

BTW, my CR140 is bone stock, not even tuned yet. I just had this stuff laying around and thought I'd play with it a little to see the effects.

Meth Injection CR140

Just wanted to start a little discussion about meth injection on these cars. I just ordered the Snow Performance Power-Max kit for my 2013 Jetta TDI 6MT with stage 2 Malone tune and rawtek exhaust. Kind of looking to see if anyone had any experiences with it on a tuned car and how they liked it or some things to look out for. Hopefully will be able to provide some insight to people looking to do the same.

Cool. I'm interested in adding water/meth injection to my car. My racepipe has a tap I could use, but I'm not sure if that is the best place to inject. I also have 4 - 5 gallon pails of methanol left over from when I was making bio. Keep us updated on how it works out.

Best place to inject meth is your arm not your TDI. Ive read alota mixed info on this. Not seeing it being favorable.

I run the exact same setup for awhile. It made all kinds of power with the stock turbo. The only problem I had was boost creep. I'd see 30 psi boost easily. Bearings finally gave up after after running that way for 40,000 miles.

Ive bought a progressive AEM kit for my ALH, I'm quite interested to see how it works when i put it in. I have some issues with EGT's with max duration fueling with R520's and 11MM. Im hoping to see them drop a few hundred degrees. I don't think in the diesel world water meth is really used for power as it is in the gas world. Gas= increase in boost and timing such as running race fuel. Diesel= lower EGT and possibly better MPG

Just my 2 cents but I'm interested to see what others think.

Drugs are bad.

I heard Crystal Meth has zero side affects.

UFO (under fueled oiler) said:

I run the exact same setup for awhile. It made all kinds of power with the stock turbo. The only problem I had was boost creep. I'd see 30 psi boost easily. Bearings finally gave up after after running that way for 40,000 miles.

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Well that makes me a little nervous... Although I do have the catalytic converter and resonator on my exhaust, so hopefully that will give some added back pressure and turbo protection

Ya that would help. I had a 3 inch turbo back straight pipe. Also I read somewhere the stock turbo max boost shouldn't exceed 23 psi boost. If you keep the boost under 25 psi I don't think you'll have a problem of the turbo going out because of overboosting it. You'll just have to watch for boost creep.

Water/Methanol injection

Yes it is a Performance add on but it also is for decreased emissions- increased combustion efficiency which means less particulate matter and NOX, along with cooler EGT's.
So is also for both performance and Emissions.

The meth kit just came in last night. Doesn't look like too difficult of an install, hopefully it will all go smooth. Anyone know/think the tune should be adjusted after doing this? Or maybe at least logged to make sure everything is running right?

Why start this thread when another one already exists?
https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=456394

I think you would be hard to get this kind of gain with a water injection.

I use a CNG computer controlled injection system that dyno test is just a 20% added from 2000 RPM to 4000 RPM

Bob - How is that relevant to this thread?

CNGVW said:

I think you would be hard to get this kind of gain with a water injection.

I use a CNG computer controlled injection system that dyno test is just a 20% added from 2000 RPM to 4000 RPM

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He was asking about water meth, not quite sure what you're trying to say here?