if you were gonna buy a diesel truck?

which one would you get and why? I am proposing a new family vehicle for my parents for travelling back and forth from austin texas to colorado. There are a few passes involved. I don't know jack about disel trucks but I wanted to ask here (and sorry if this is a bit of topic) but I figured that the desireable aspects of a diesel regarding drivablilty and gass mileage were of more import than the towing or off road capablilties. Thus I wanted to ask people who desire those qualities in their cars what they would get. Are these trucks easily modified by a "oem" ish mod like a chip. My dad currently has a heavily modified rx-7 twin turbo. He is almost 60 and is thinking about "just getting a big truck." I think I modded turbo diesel would do the whole family good. It's the closest thing I could get, anytime soon, to a tdi.

Hayden
2g eclipse rs

They're like diesel cars, but bigger with more cylinders.

I got a used '96 Dodge Ram 2500, 4x4, full size bed. It's BIG. My neighbors know when I start it.

Dodge's have a reputation for bad handeling. Mine is no exception and when it gets warm out, I'll try a new track bar.

Ford's have a good reputation for handeling, but their engine has had some prblems.

Chevy's Duarmax, well, it's a Chevy.
http://www.turbodieselregister.com



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Gregor Switca
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1999.5 Jetta GL
1996 Dodge 2500 Cummins 4x4

Torque is a beautiful thing.

I agree with 'pup and Turbosteve.

I'd say the Duramax is the most advanced diesel light truck engine you can buy right now.

The Powerstrokes are advanced, but I've heard of alot of reliability problems with them.

From what I understand, the Cummins engine in the Dodge Ram has the best record reliability wise. It may not be the most advanced, but they are built rugged as hell. It's the only one out of the whole bunch that it is used in medium-duty applications in the same form. They are built to last 400k +

If I was buying a used diesel truck I would almost certainly get a Dodge Cummins powered unit. If I was buying new, I might test drive a few of the others. As far as handling goes, that is not at the top of my list of attributes that I am looking for in a full-size truck. It is important, but for me, the most important features would be durability of the motor and transmission and quality and strength of construction, as far as the chassis goes. That stuff is key. I don't know enough about any of the big three to tell you which one shines there. I do know the Cummins engine by reputation and through 2 friends who have owned them. I have a friend with a powerstroke diesel van he bought new and it has been nothing but trouble. Personally after seeing the boneheaded engineering that went into my parents Ford Explorer, I don't think I could bring myself to buy a Ford anything

Put me down for a V6 direct-injected Toyota Tundra 4x4 turbodiesel, please! I have no use for a full size diesel pickup, as much as I dig 'em.

If I had such a use, I'm not sure what I'd do. My dad has a '99 PowerStroke that has seen more than its fair share of engine control and injector problems. The Dodge uses the fantastic Cummins engine, but...it's a DODGE. I can't bring myself to buy a Chrysler product. The Duramax is the best engine of the three on paper, but it's too soon to tell whether they'll be reliable or not. Plus, I have always been even less impressed by the quality of GM pickups than by their Ford and Dodge competition. The Ford and GM have the toughest drivetrains and suspensions, in my opinion. The basic Dodge vehicle will fall apart pretty quickly.

-mickey

p.s. I want an old Mercedes G-Wagen turbodiesel! These are available if you look around.

thanks for the replies. It's too bad there is not a clear choice though. My parents are sold on ford so I think waiting to see what the new engine looks like is a good idea. BTW, I just go back from driving a tdi for the first time. The dealer took me to a hill and the damn thing went right up in from a stop in third gear. I stalled it twice but once I got it up there and let it all out, it went like the hill wasn't even there. Passing power was almost as good as my eclipse (non-turbo.) I was impressed.. too bad the handling is blah in stock form. I did squeak the tires twice while accelerating out of a 90 degree turn. So the upsolute chip makes it THAT much better? Where is the maximum power made before and after tuning?

hayden
95 eclipse rs

There are all kinds of runors about what Dodge and Cummins are going to do in the next few years. There is talk of a Mercedes engine being used, a new Cummins or a whole new supplier. No one is 100% sure.

One thing is true. Whatever BIG truck your father gets, it wont handel like a heavily modified rx-7 twin turbo.

My next truck will be a chevy or GMC 2500 4X4 with the new Duramaxx diesel. I have finally driven one and it is IMPRESSIVE!!!! It totally puts Ford in the backseat so far as comfort, acceleration, sound noise and LOOKS!!! If I can't get my hands on one, then I would settle for a Dodge Cummins. I could say more but I will leave it at this. I have owned fords before but none have ever held up.

This:
http://www.mercedes-benz.com/e/cars/g-class/g400_CDI_stationlg.htm
http://www.mercedes-benz.com/e/cars/g-class/aussen_rel.htm

or this:
http://www.unimogusa.com/products.html

Hey, I can dream can't I

Hayden:
I would look at the Cummins. Local truck lease/ sales yard has a number of these on lease to various industrial customers. Most of them are currently at or near 900,000 to 1,000,000 kms and still going strong. Remember they have to be reliable, and the guy that owns the business is quite pleased.

Duramax engines have been having some trouble locally with head leakage. Probably those stretch to yield fasteners, but I would stay away yet, I heard there was some redesigning to happen, but this might be bs.

Ford Powerstroke. Are incredibly powerful, and if you have hard work for these to do, go for it. If you don't, and just want a diesel truck to drive around, stay away. A few things like 10mpg might be distracting from the power and such over the long haul. Friends that have them are just bowled over by the lack of mileage. There seem to be a few here and there that get better, but by and large, they seem to get the worst mileage.

After a little more time, it would seem that the duramax would be the one to get, but I'd wait yet. The 12 valve cummins seem to have been the most reliable of the lot.

If I had an extra 40 grand laying around the house, I'd take a good long hard, look at the Chevrolet Silverago HD with the Duramax engine. GM's cab and chassis are better than Ford or Dodge, especially when it comes to handling and etc.... - atleast all of the major testing companies back me up in saying so.

My ideal truck would be a HD Tundra with a Toyota 6-cylinder diesel engine in it.

I have never heard anything bad about the Dodge Ram with Cummins engine, just bullet proof and very tunable. I think it gets the best economy of the bunch as well, being a six cylinder. It is easier to work on to, since it is an inline engine.
Greg

If you're buying it for the engine, get the Cummins. I don't have personal experience with it, but I know several guys that have marinized versions of these engines in their boats and could not be happier with them.
I also know a guy that has a late model Ford PU with the Powerstroke engine and says he wishes he had a Cummins.

Mel

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2000 Black on Black Golf GLS TDI
Five Speed, Heated Seats, Completely stock

Cummins and Powerstroke engines are both at the end of their life span.

Cummins is being discountinued this next year and Ford is releasing new version of Powerstoke.

The Isuzu diesel in the GMC-Chevy is lastest untested technology and the most powerful at the present time.

Ford will soon introduce a 6 cylinder Powerstroke in the light SUV vehicles and pickups. If milage is a concern and huge size not so important I`d wait to look into this one. If all had to happen now and $ was not an object I`d head for the Duramax in a Chevy or GMC.

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96 TDI Passat Wagon, PC Cone, Upsolutely Chipped and TB`d
89 Ford F250 Diesel
Biodiesel Powered

or perhaps



This'd be my choice....
Equipped with diesels of course.
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'94 Golf tdi 1Z
'56 Willys M38A1

[This message has been edited by feto (edited March 22, 2001).]

It sounds like your parents have their mind made up.It there money,choice so let them do it.But if you look at all of the big rigs on the road 90+% have straight sixs in them.Cummins is like Harley,been around a long time and still going.Check out Turbo Diesel Register web site.It's all about Dodges/Cummins.

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Larry Schultz 2000 Dodge/Cummins 4x4 Quad cab 5-spd/2001 NB 5spd Techno Blue AMSOIL dealer and user.

mileage in the powerstroke.

A friend of mine (also has a Green TDI GOLF now) uses his Powerstroke in Colorado to deliver Gensets adn battery arrays up and down the mountains.

He uses synthetic oil and gets 14 mpg regardless of load.

If there is ever an engine that can benefit from the 5W-30 series 3000 synthetic this is it.

Personally I would go with teh Chevy - only because the Truck platfrom is lightyears betterthan Dodge or Ford. The Duramax engine is intriguing - if I had to buy a truck right now - I would go with the 2500HD 4x4 with the Duramax, extended cab and a full length bed (don't know if a short bed is option but wouldn't get it). I'd also get a flat bed trailer to put the TDI on to take it to and from the GTGs (so I can really haul all the junk needed).

[This message has been edited by GeWilli (edited March 22, 2001).]

Just my opinion, but the Hummer is crude and too oversized to be useful for most civilians.

Dante is on the right path there. The G-wagen is the mack-daddy when it comes premium-quality diesel-powered off and on road transportation. Nothing else comes close in my opinion. The M-klasse is a joke. A minivan on roids.

The Toyota diesels are excellent from what I have seen in the islands. I wish they'd bring them here. I *love* my TDI, but I would trade it for a Aussie-spec diesel Landcruiser with basic options in 3 seconds.

As much as I hate GM the "Isuzu" Duramax is the best engine going. I would even pick it over the Cummins (not by much though). 90 degree V8, 2 stage injection (like a TDI), easy turbo access, overall great design.

But I am holding off on my next purchase until the Colorado shows up and I will be taking delivery of one should the V10-TDI come on over!! Now that will be the truck to own, I would not doubt that it will get the truck of the year nomination (for SUV's anyway).

DB

FYI - the Harley analogy is not a compliment for Cummins. Just because something has been around for years does not make it good. H-D use an antiquated design (except for the new TwinCam) that is notorious for leaking oil. I work with H-D, they are extremely slow to adapt new technology and reluctanct to make improvements that get them out of 1940s technology. Cummins may be a fine product, but H-D is not a model of reliability. H-D has a great image and tradition, great motor? NO.

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Joel
2001 GOlf GL TDI 5-speed silver/black:
Nokia Hakka 1 on A3 GTI VR6 alloys - winter

a six cylinder powerstroke is something to get excited about! That would at least make the SUV market more environmentally sound and would also bring the turbo diesel into the spotlight which would in turn most definetely improve the chances of us getting more tdis from Europe. I think that diesel is getting ready to take off in america.. I can feel it. That engine would be ideal although a truck is still more appealing. We do have a ranch in south texas as well but we have a truck dedicated for that purpose. I say get something that makes everyone happy and is useful in all situations. Are these truck quiet on the highway like a tdi?

-hayden

Get the Chevy. We just received over 30 of them here at MIS and a few are diesels. Super quiet, super powerful. (Free to us, but at the end of the race season, a truck may have a few thousand miles on it and we can usually get them for a song and a dance) Well, still about $35K, but it's still cheaper and you still get the full factory warranty... I'll believe I'll take two!

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In an effort to reduce the cost of production Chysler has publicly stated that any vendor who refuses to a 5% cut will be terminated as the vehicles are redesigned.

Don't know if Cummins has agreed to the price cut yet.

Skypup, stick to VW's. I own both a Cummins Dodge and a new TDI, and both perform extremely well for their intended duties. The I-6 design is THE configuration of choice for heavily turbocharged truck engines. The Powerstroke (while a nice engine) was a response to the Cummins I-6 directly injected engine. The duramax revs like a gasser and will last almost as long. Show me a combo that can consistently turn 21mg (all around driving) and that has the ability to tow beyond 15,000lbs, plus a payload of 4,000-5,000. I know because I take mine to the gravel pit on a regular basis and weigh in and out. And here's one for ya: try to rebuild a Powerstroke. The cylinderhead can't be milled, because without custom machine work on the pistons, there are no gaskets to fit. Cummins stocks three different ones by the way. Also, ask any diesel mechanic that you know about the lower rod bearings on the Stroke or the duramax. Do you think that the 30%> bearing area on the Cummins ISB would help in the long run? Or how about the 15% longer stroke? Can you say, more torque? Oh, and a $1,000 investment yields about 650-700ftlbs of torque, up from the stock 505. These engines can safely be pushed to 350hp / 800lbft. Not bad for a has-been design that resides under the hood of virtually every single over-the-road / class 8 rig out there. Only they're putting out 1200-1600lbft @ 10-14 liters.

dave

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Dodge Cummins / TDI

You've had a lot of info, but I'll put in my 2 cents' worth.

I drive a tdi and a 96 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 extended cab, longbed with manual transmission. I have over 100,000 miles on it now, and it consistently gets 20+ mpg. Towing a flatbed trailer with a small car from Georgia to New Mexico it got 17 mpg. Towing a travel trailer (light but a little boxy) it got about 13-14 mpg. It has been reliable - period. I bought the truck for the engine. Isuzu makes good diesel engines. If the new GM/Isuzu engine turns out to be more Isuzu and less GM, it might be a good choice. But like other posters here, I would be more comfortable waiting a while to see. The truck itself is almost certainly the most comfortable. The Ford ... well, it won't get the milage but it will probably do the job. The newest revision of the Dodge might be something to look at.

As to whether Dodge will continue with the Cummins - good question. I wouldn't buy one without the Cummins.

I'd buy a Dodge Ram with a Mercedes diesel in it. Wouldn't you?

No.

The reason has less to do with the engine than with the fact that when DB bought Chrysler both parties lied about it. "A merger of equals," they called it. Now a German company is considering kicking out an American supplier. I have a problem rewarding that kind of behavior.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RC:
Ford will soon introduce a 6 cylinder Powerstroke in the light SUV vehicles <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

RC,

Do you have specifics about this engine? When is it due on the market, is it V6 or I6 and what displacement?

International is building a baby V-6 Powerstroke using the current design of the 7.3L V-8 for Ford, who hopes to offer this engine in their F-150 and Expeditions, which share similar platforms.

Rumor has it that there is a good chance a diesel will also be offered for the 2003 Explorer.

Thrwngstns,
I saw this somewhere, I believe it was here
http://forums.ford-diesel.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi

There also is a Navistar site that may tell you something but I don`t have that site info anymore. Good luck.

I also think this will be good for the general diesel market here in the States.



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96 TDI Passat Wagon, PC Cone, Upsolutely Chipped and TB`d
89 Ford F250 Diesel
Biodiesel Powered