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Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal Discussion around the VW Dieselgate Emissions scandal. Details and news updates can be viewed here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=448336 This forum is a work in progress depending on requirements, usage, etc.

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Old December 7th, 2017, 17:39   #31
bird67
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Truly not trying to be antagonistic here. I get that calculating MPG by taking odometer reading and dividing by fuel burned is a more accurate determinant of MPG.

---

Again, not trolling for a fight. I just don't understand why comparing apples-to-apples is invalid.
Thanks for the responses. Honestly, a lot of what was said is syllogistic...MFI cannot be relied upon for an apples-to-apples, before-vs-after comparison because everyone knows MFI is not reliable.

But one explanation stands out - without knowing MFI methodology for determining MPG, you can't know whether the "fix" affects the post-"fix" MFI methodology. If it does, it would defeat the apples-to-applies premise and thus make it unrevealing to rely on MFI for firm conclusions about pre- vs. post-fix MPG.

That's good enough for me. I'm leaving convinced that plain old math (miles traveled/gallons of fuel used = MPG) is the proper yardstick.

FWIW, I called to make a dealer appointment for a 60k service on mine today. The SW did not ask me if I want to schedule my "fix." Curious, I asked why. She said no reason, when you want it, let us know. She also said that their customers are reporting general satisfaction with the "fix", which is costing them about 1 mpg.

I didn't ask how they calculated it...
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Last edited by bird67; December 7th, 2017 at 17:42.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 22:34   #32
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Does anyone else notice their engine warms up much faster than before?
Iím only a couple days post fix but....
1. Engine warms up to temp much quicker (20-35F ambient temps this week around here). Previously I could be 5-7 miles down the road before the temp gauge registered 1/2. Now itís within 1-2 miles.
2. Low to mid range torque feels diminished.
3. Go pedal seems like it needs to be depressed further for an equivalent throttle response. It doesnít feel linear, slightly annoying.
4. Not too concerned about fuel economy at the moment. $10k can buy a lot of diesel.
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Old December 8th, 2017, 04:59   #33
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Originally Posted by bioburner View Post
Iím only a couple days post fix but....
1. Engine warms up to temp much quicker (20-35F ambient temps this week around here). Previously I could be 5-7 miles down the road before the temp gauge registered 1/2. Now itís within 1-2 miles.
2. Low to mid range torque feels diminished.
3. Go pedal seems like it needs to be depressed further for an equivalent throttle response. It doesnít feel linear, slightly annoying.
4. Not too concerned about fuel economy at the moment. $10k can buy a lot of diesel.
2 and 3 are even worse than a gasser 3.0T. Pretty sad.
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Old December 8th, 2017, 06:46   #34
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2 and 3 are even worse than a gasser 3.0T. Pretty sad.
Have you been driving a Q7 or a Touareg? My Touareg feels slightly down on power but not by much. I'm curious if the Q7 was neutered worse than the Touaregs?
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Old December 8th, 2017, 08:29   #35
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Have you been driving a Q7 or a Touareg? My Touareg feels slightly down on power but not by much. I'm curious if the Q7 was neutered worse than the Touaregs?
I compared two fixed 2014 Q7s and a 2018 Q7 3.0T gasser side by side. I also drove a 2018 audi Q5 2.0T gasser as a loaner. Even the Q5 was more fun to drive.

I've heard good results from the Treg/cayenne fix, but not so much for the Q7.

Last edited by MBQ; December 8th, 2017 at 13:17.
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Old December 8th, 2017, 08:35   #36
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I'd bet the Audi and VW engine programming are the exact same. Transmission schedules might differ (Audi being the "sport" brand), but considering there is an S mode when we want it to be sporty I don't see why they'd bother making the Touareg and Q7 any different.


As to warmup, mine definitely hangs onto lower gears and waits to lockup the torque converter longer.
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Old December 8th, 2017, 09:19   #37
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The only real difference, other than the unknowns about the physical aftertreatment systems, is the weight difference between the Q7 and Touareg. Maybe the heavier Q7 had to be setup differently than the Touareg to get the same emissions results?

Last edited by bhuizer; December 8th, 2017 at 09:21.
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Old December 8th, 2017, 11:20   #38
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If they got different fixes the'd of been classified as different vehicles..

but if your down on power, it'll be more apparent in a heavier vehicle..
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Old December 10th, 2017, 21:16   #39
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I saw quite a few, me included, newly joined members complaining basically about loss of accecelation and lower MPG in Touareg and Q7. I am not a car guy and I don’t want to talk technical details. The point I want to make is I have no doubt that my 2014 Touareg is a much lesser car post fix. I drove it almost everyday for three years and the difference is significant enough to tell. I just want us drivers united as I believe this fraudulent fix is a much severe offense than the cheating software. I am a scientist who work on hard evidences, and I believe it will not be hard to prove VW cheated yet again. Maybe Those engineers at University of West Virginia can do their wonder again?

Last edited by Twohorses; December 10th, 2017 at 21:19. Reason: Typo
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Old December 10th, 2017, 21:45   #40
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I saw quite a few, me included, newly joined members complaining basically about loss of accecelation and lower MPG in Touareg and Q7. I am not a car guy and I don’t want to talk technical details. The point I want to make is I have no doubt that my 2014 Touareg is a much lesser car post fix. I drove it almost everyday for three years and the difference is significant enough to tell. I just want us drivers united as I believe this fraudulent fix is a much severe offense than the cheating software. I am a scientist who work on hard evidences, and I believe it will not be hard to prove VW cheated yet again. Maybe Those engineers at University of West Virginia can do their wonder again?

More like the definition of "performance" in the settlement is too loose than VW cheated again: peak horsepower and torque is nothing, the power output curve was not even mentioned. In the world of diesel engine, that's more important.

The fix made the car garbage. A "clean" garbage is still garbage.
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Old December 10th, 2017, 23:30   #41
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I'm curious to see how much of an improvement an aftermarket tune will make.. havent found any tuners for 8spd ZF, so post-fix transmission mapping will remain.. might be like driving around in sport mode all the time if the power is returned in spades.
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Old December 11th, 2017, 06:43   #42
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I just want us drivers united as I believe this fraudulent fix is a much severe offense than the cheating software.

1) How are drivers going to be united when many don’t agree with you that the fix has been a disaster?

2) Where is the fraud/conspiracy you are claiming? VW? EPA? Both??
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Old December 11th, 2017, 08:53   #43
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Anyone willing to put their TDI on a dyno before and after the fix?

Gonna need some hard data to prove they are now "garbage"
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Old December 11th, 2017, 09:47   #44
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Like somebody said before its not all about number which a dyno would show. A lot of it is driveability. Car may have peak power close to the same, but the area under the power curve is a lot smaller, or takes a LOT more throttle to get the same response.
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Old December 11th, 2017, 12:49   #45
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^^Well, you could use more throttle, lol. When I bought my Q5, the shifting was atrocious. It turned out the previous owner (whom I know), just didn’t teach the transmission to work dynamically at all. When I asked the dealer for a reset, they were willing, but didn’t have time that afternoon. They suggested I drive around in manual for a while. Guess what: it worked. I drove in manual for a few days, on and off; never did have to bring the car in, and it knows what to do now.
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