Crappy Winter Mileage

Engineers<3Diesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2012 VW Jetta TDI
Wow this one got out of hand real quick!

I don't think there is a clearly defined point which you could say all motors are broken in and you should get the best mileage. It is heavily dependant on how they are driven. I suggested in post 15 to report back at 20k miles (heck at 10K you may see significant improvements). That seems like a lot, but in my 2006 Cummins, I didn't see my best fuel mileage until around 60K miles so diesels do take a long time to break in.

Also as a few other folks have mentioned, you will not get the EPA rating in the winter due to a few factors. Winterized fuel has less energy and colder temperatures creating more drag are the main culprits. Just one of the realizations of winter that we have to live with. Just think though you get to break in during the winter and enjoy much better mileage by the summer.

As I've seen on our Jetta, even at 8K miles (just hit it last night) we're seeing a measured average of 39.18 mpg over the life of the car. This has seen a choppy and steady increase on each fuel up. This is higher than what you see, but living in the south, we've got much nicer temps as well as the fuel is a bit better due to not having to be as robust in guarding against gelling like the stuff found in Canada.

And lastly, welcome to the club!
 

quadrun1

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Location
Fairfield County, CT
TDI
past: 2013 Passat TDI SE 6M, 2010 Jetta TDI DSG
To the original poster:

If I were to drive exclusively short trips in Manhattan/NYC in the winter time, my car would undoubtedly return fuel economy in the low-to-mid 20's. Even in the summer time, I'd probably still be below 30 mpg in pure Manhattan driving. The TDI is not the right car for this type of driving, you'd want a Prius for this.

And say what you will about break-in, but with only about 2,000 miles on it, my car did give me a 45.8 mpg tank, this was in Oct 2010 (you can see my Fuelly log by clicking the banner below). Most of the time, my driving is a lot of highway, driving on interstates to work (50 miles each way)

You're right, the advantage of a 2.0 TDI over a well-implemented gasser is shrinking. Something like a Chevy Cruze "ECO" will obtain nearly the same fuel economy, but it has far less torque. And torque is fun. I love my Jetta.

Jason
 

FourCircle

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Location
Canada
TDI
2012 Audi A3 TDI Progressiv
This is my first TDI (2012 A3 2.0 TDI Common Rail with DSG). What I noticed is that our cold winter (Canada) have an enormous influence on fuel economy.

- I drive fast on the highway (130km/h - 80mph), which does not help my fuel economy;
- I drive mainly on highways (80%) and my trips are 40 to 50km (24-31 miles) on average (it's good for fuel economy);
- I plug in the blockheater when the temp is below -5 ° C (23F) since January;
- I had dirve through 12,000 km (7500miles) since October 2011.
- We are in winter. Temperatures range from 0°C (32F) to -35°C (-32F);

My best full: 6.6 l/100km (35.6 MPG) - Warm winter week (-10 to 0 ° C)
My average: 7.2 l/100km (32.6 MPG)
My worst full: 7.8 l/100km (30.1 MPG)

Like you, I find that my fuel comsumption is high. I look forward (summer) to see the difference. I hope to reach an average of 6l/100km (40mpg) in summer... I hope.

Before, I had a small 4x4 SUV (Ford Escape 2009). Average of 11.5 l/100 (20.45 MPG). I'm still satisfied. 40-45% saving $$$.

4circle
 
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gergg

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Location
Georgia
TDI
2012 Passat TDI 6M
This is my first TDI (2012 A3 2.0 TDI Common Rail with DSG). What I noticed is that our cold winter (Canada) have an enormous influence on fuel economy.

- I drive fast on the highway (130km/h - 80mph), which does not help my fuel economy;
- I drive mainly on highways (80%) and my trips are 40 to 50km (24-31 miles) on average (it's good for fuel economy);
- I plug in the blockheater when the temp is below -5 ° C (23F) since January;
- I had dirve through 12,000 km (7500miles) since October 2011.
- We are in winter. Temperatures range from 0°C (32F) to -35°C (-32F);

My best full: 6.6 l/100km (35.6 MPG) - Warm winter week (-10 to 0 ° C)
My average: 7.2 l/100km (32.6 MPG)
My worst full: 7.8 l/100km (30.1mpg)

Like you, I find that my fuel comsumption is high. I look forward (summer) to see the difference. I hope to reach an average of 6l/100km (40mpg) in summer... I hope.

Before, I had a small 4x4. Average of 11.5 l/100 (20.45 MPG). I'm still satisfied. 40-45% saving
I have found temps below 30F really do knock down the mpg's but, I bet you could get very close to the 40mpg mark if you would slow down to 70mph.....if you have that in ya:D
 

FourCircle

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Location
Canada
TDI
2012 Audi A3 TDI Progressiv
30F is very hot here in winter season. Minus 32°F is cold. Ya, I think I should reduce my speed, but I am often hurry... ;-)
 

gergg

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Location
Georgia
TDI
2012 Passat TDI 6M
30F is very hot here in winter season. Minus 32°F is cold. Ya, I think I should reduce my speed, but I am often hurry... ;-)
Well then accept the mpg's you're getting, you know the reason why.
 

quadrun1

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Location
Fairfield County, CT
TDI
past: 2013 Passat TDI SE 6M, 2010 Jetta TDI DSG
It's 45 degrees here today and I went to a doctor's appt in Manhattan this morning, which is just over the bridge from me (I'm in Queens, one of the outer boroughs of NYC)

Just to emphasize the "cost" of city driving, let me point this out:

The round trip was 13 miles, fuel economy for the trip was only 25.9 mpg.

The previous 317 miles were mostly commuting to/from work, almost all highway. Despite this trip to/from Manhattan, the tank average so far is still 43 mpg. I should have remembered to look at the tank average before my trip this morning, must have been above 44 mpg...

This car can easily exceed the EPA highway rating (42 mpg), but if your city driving environment is as bad as mine, you can easily get well under the EPA city rating (30 mpg).

This is completely normal...

Jason
 

Blinkinbanana

Active member
Joined
Aug 8, 2011
Location
Long Pond, PA
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI
It's 45 degrees here today and I went to a doctor's appt in Manhattan this morning, which is just over the bridge from me (I'm in Queens, one of the outer boroughs of NYC)

Just to emphasize the "cost" of city driving, let me point this out:

The round trip was 13 miles, fuel economy for the trip was only 25.9 mpg.

The previous 317 miles were mostly commuting to/from work, almost all highway. Despite this trip to/from Manhattan, the tank average so far is still 43 mpg. I should have remembered to look at the tank average before my trip this morning, must have been above 44 mpg...

This car can easily exceed the EPA highway rating (42 mpg), but if your city driving environment is as bad as mine, you can easily get well under the EPA city rating (30 mpg).

This is completely normal...

Jason
Queensboro bridge? I work right nears queens mid town but try to save the $6.50 toll both ways. Driving home from greenpoint to the bridge then back down town kills my mpgs plus it's almost an hour commute, and less than 10 miles.
 

quadrun1

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Location
Fairfield County, CT
TDI
past: 2013 Passat TDI SE 6M, 2010 Jetta TDI DSG
Yep, Queensboro bridge. If you live in downtown Manhattan have you considered one of the other bridges? (BMW - Brooklyn, Manhattan, or Williamsburg)
 

Blinkinbanana

Active member
Joined
Aug 8, 2011
Location
Long Pond, PA
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI
Yep, Queensboro bridge. If you live in downtown Manhattan have you considered one of the other bridges? (BMW - Brooklyn, Manhattan, or Williamsburg)
I've been taking the Manhattan bridge to the navy yard. Easy commute. I think I might start taking that route home or williamsburg. Fridays I take the midtown to Lincoln tunnel. I just hate the bqe. My apartment is on 30th. I try not to spend weekends in the city.

Semi on topic, since your commute is similar to mine do you do anything special to warm up your car? My car seems to just be hot as I'm about to park.
 

FormerGasser

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
Location
Colorado
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SE 6M
Also as a few other folks have mentioned, you will not get the EPA rating in the winter due to a few factors. Winterized fuel has less energy and colder temperatures creating more drag are the main culprits. Just one of the realizations of winter that we have to live with. Just think though you get to break in during the winter and enjoy much better mileage by the summer.
I beg to differ on that......bought my TDI in the middle of November (I believe Denver runs winter blend from October through April). Life to date mileage is 43-44 with a best of 47mpg on a tank (mostly highway). My daily driving consists of 46 miles round trip. 80/20 highway/city.
 

lilspoon

Active member
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Location
Louisville, KY
TDI
2004 jetta
The new engine with dpf system do not necessarily hurt milage. Our Detroits at work with dpf get better milage than the older non dpf engines. Has alot to do with idle time and driving technique.

Good luck with the better milage. I hope mine will go up soon aswell. I only do 20 mile trips a day and all city driving. Can not be more happy with my Jetta.
 

Vekke

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Location
Finland
TDI
Audi A8 with 1.2 TDI VW Lupo 3L --> 2L (retired)
So When temperature changes one celsius you fuel consumption gets 0.0264 l/100km better or worse in percentages that is 0.646 % per celsius so ten celsius degrees is almost 7% difference.
 

HRC-E.B.

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Location
Montreal, Canada
TDI
2012 Golf TDI, 6MT
It does seem like slightly warmer temperatures help somewhat, because of faster warm-up times. I may have gained about .5L/100km already.
 

quadrun1

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Location
Fairfield County, CT
TDI
past: 2013 Passat TDI SE 6M, 2010 Jetta TDI DSG
I've been taking the Manhattan bridge to the navy yard. Easy commute. I think I might start taking that route home or williamsburg. Fridays I take the midtown to Lincoln tunnel. I just hate the bqe. My apartment is on 30th. I try not to spend weekends in the city.

Semi on topic, since your commute is similar to mine do you do anything special to warm up your car? My car seems to just be hot as I'm about to park.
Actually my commute is very different, I go over the Whitestone Bridge to/from Westchester, so it is mainly highway.

I used to live in the city on 29th st. near 3rd ave., and back then I commuted to Nassau County. Always took the Midtown tunnel, it is expensive but saved a lot of time and aggravation.

As for warm up I just start driving right away, gently until it comes up to temperature. Takes about 15 minutes in winter.

Jason
 

Baba O'Riley

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Location
Erin, Ontario
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 6-sp
I took delivery of a 2012 Golf TDI 6sp on Sat, March 10.
The dealer filled the tank and I drove 995km.
My fuel light came on and I drove approx 30km with the light on.
I then filled up and spent a minute-or-so topping up; but could only see foam!
I think about 53 litres went into the tank.
I will strive to update Fuelly as my ownership continues.
I should average around 1000km per week.
Andy
 

HRC-E.B.

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Location
Montreal, Canada
TDI
2012 Golf TDI, 6MT
I took delivery of a 2012 Golf TDI 6sp on Sat, March 10.
The dealer filled the tank and I drove 995km.
My fuel light came on and I drove approx 30km with the light on.
I then filled up and spent a minute-or-so topping up; but could only see foam!
I think about 53 litres went into the tank.
I will strive to update Fuelly as my ownership continues.
I should average around 1000km per week.
Andy
Wow! 5.3l/100 average on your first tank? I am assuming this was a single 1000km trip, all highway?

What speed to you drive on the highway?
 

Rudolph Rajendra

New member
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Location
Lindsay
TDI
New Beetle
With 140,000km on the odometer, I've found that lowering speed doesn't necessarily increase fuel economy.

If you accelerate gently, keeping rpm between 1000 and 2000, and use the cruise control often, you'll get the best fuel economy, even with winter diesel. At highway speeds, and slightly higher, with the turbo at full charge, using cruise control, you'll experience the best fuel economy - even better than driving the same distance at lower speeds. It's not just the starts and stops, although that's important, its also about using the engineering features like turbo, and spending less time in travel, and therefore burning less fuel per kilometre travelled.
 

Baba O'Riley

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Location
Erin, Ontario
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 6-sp
Wow! 5.3l/100 average on your first tank? I am assuming this was a single 1000km trip, all highway?

What speed to you drive on the highway?

No single highway journey. My daily roundtrip to work is 170km. Sometimes I do a little extra mileage during the day; over the last 10 years I've averaged 48,000km per year.
On the 407 I drive into work at around 110; and from work around 125!

I have noticed that the speedo is not accurate on the TDI. I've done the same journey for the last 10 years and was immediately suspicious that the TDI was overestimating my speed. GPS confirmed it. When TDI says 130, GPS says 121.

I'll be filling up tomorrow Friday and will update Fuelly and put up a quick post.
 

MikeMars

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Location
UK
TDI
Vento 1.9 TDi (retired), A4 1.9 TDi (rear end collision), VW Passat 1.9 TDi (retired), Audi A2 1.4 TDi
>I have noticed that the speedo is not accurate on the TDI.

This is for legal reasons. They are forced to always overestimate the speed in order to never underestimate it due to the size of wheels which the driver uses.
 

Blinkinbanana

Active member
Joined
Aug 8, 2011
Location
Long Pond, PA
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI
>I have noticed that the speedo is not accurate on the TDI.

This is for legal reasons. They are forced to always overestimate the speed in order to never underestimate it due to the size of wheels which the driver uses.
Interesting as my car reads 70, on the needle and w/ cruise set, and my gps will read 72-73. Which is the exact opposite, car travels faster than posted vs slower than posted.
 

MikeMars

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Location
UK
TDI
Vento 1.9 TDi (retired), A4 1.9 TDi (rear end collision), VW Passat 1.9 TDi (retired), Audi A2 1.4 TDi
Interesting as my car reads 70, on the needle and w/ cruise set, and my gps will read 72-73. Which is the exact opposite, car travels faster than posted vs slower than posted.
Certainly shouldn't do that. Perhaps someone has calibrated it via VDCS to the wrong wheel circumference, or alternatively the tyre has a larger circumference than expected.
 
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