Timing belt alignment question

Timing belt alignment question/water pump

Howdy all, doing the TBelt on my 00 ALH along with a radiator replacement, and what i thought was going to be a vein cleaning but ended up being a turbo replacement, the veins were smooth but the shaft did not spin freely, anyway i got the new (used) turbo ready and the new radiator in so now im doing the Tbelt, everything has been going fairly smoothly ( with the exception of a stripped harmonic balancer pulley bolt).
I have the motor mount disconnected with a jack holding the motor currently and as i try to get everything at TDC is where there seems to be a problem. When the IP,cam lobes, and FW marks all seem to be ligned up the camshaft lock bar does not want to fit, the cam needs to move backwards a few degrees. Then if i rotate so the lock bar fits i cannot see the FW mark anymore, but the lobes and IP hole seem good.
I have the harmonic balancer off and i see the 'bump' on the crank but i do not see any corresponding alignment bumps on the cover to make sure it is aligned. Could the car have run pretty well with it off a tooth?
This is my frist TDI timing belt, but if done dozens of timing belts on VW 8v, 16v, audi 10v, audi 20v which are all pretty similar motors and things have always lined up well.

You line up the crank through a sight glass on the transmission to the flywheel, not the crank.

Also, when installing a new belt it doesn't matter where the cam, fuel pump, or crank line up during removal of old belt, only when installing the new belt. To. Properly set the timing belt you have to loosen the cam sprocket from the cam completely so it free spins.

Yep, line the mark up in the bellhousing hole, then adjust the cam and pump as necessary. Both the cam sprocket AND the pump sprocket are allowed to rotate slightly as the belt is tensioned. It is not at all like VAG gasoline inline engines ( but the V6s and V8s are similar).

Cam lobes up get you close, cam lock is exact.

Nero Morg said:

You line up the crank through a sight glass on the transmission to the flywheel, not the crank.
Also, when installing a new belt it doesn't matter where the cam, fuel pump, or crank line up during removal of old belt, only when installing the new belt. To. Properly set the timing belt you have to loosen the cam sprocket from the cam completely so it free spins.

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I have been using the sight through the transmission, i just have the crank pully off so i thought id try it, this is exactly the info i needed and it makes perfect sense TY

You're welcome, if you need more help you know where we all are

BTW I was still half asleep when I did the first reply. The injection pump sprocket does need to be loose during new belt install. Loosen the three 13mm bolts, not the big 22mm.

Here's hoping you have some good instruction, cause this ain't nothing like those other cars you listed.
http://pics3.tdiclub.com/articles/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf

I do have a couple printed out timing belt instructions but still find myself coming inside to the computer frequently to check.
I have loosened the 3 13mm bolts on the injection pump then i got the timing pin in and tightened them back up. I got the belt off now and the cam lock on as well as the crank lock ( although i dont think i really needed it honestly) the old belt looks amazing i probably could have taken it well over the 100k it is coming up on by the looks of it. now on to the WP and swapping all the rollers over, tomorrow after work


here is a photo of the new used turbo with the block off plate and new feed line

You don't tighten the injection pump bolts until the belt tensioner is set. Order is set and tighten tensioner, tighten fuel pump bolts, then tighten cam bolt. Doing it out of order will have mechanical timing issues.

Nero Morg said:

You don't tighten the injection pump bolts until the belt tensioner is set. Order is set and tighten tensioner, tighten fuel pump bolts, then tighten cam bolt. Doing it out of order will have mechanical timing issues.

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I ran my first timing belt that I changed somewhere out of time...had lethargic low end, aid range that would slip a South bend S2E clutch and back to lethargic before 4k...when I found my timing discrepancy it makes very linear power in relation to pedal input.

My first TDI belt was a learning experience, figured out that when I tightened up things in order, my timing was spot on and I think my first cam lock was defective.

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I hope that i am able to get this right, i am taking my time (working a bit everyday after work) and doing research trying to learn from others. Im super thankful that TDIClub is around

Tip: Make sure the three bolts are about the center of the slots on Injection Pump Cog. That will have the timing extremely close to TDC which makes for an easy first start. Remember, you will need VCDS to properly set the timing.

I dont think they are quite in the center currently, i will do my best to get it all lined up before i put the belt back on thanks for all the help guys

today i wet to swap the WP and found this:




seems the shop in MA that did the belt @97k used some sort of a white glue, i cant seem to get it off. I wiggled it, pried it and it wont budge. If they used a metal impeller unit it could be ok for another 100k. I fear if i force it off i may be trying to scrape/pry off this white glue stuff for a while.

It doesn't look like your photo uploaded...

I personally would try to change it still, because the bearings in the pump may be getting tired. And a siezed water pump can cost you an engine... You may need to get a tiny heel bar in there to pop it loose. I know with just the regular o ring they can be a bit stuck on their own.

3baudios said:

today i wet to swap the WP and found this:

seems the shop in MA that did the belt @97k used some sort of a white glue, i cant seem to get it off. I wiggled it, pried it and it wont budge. If they used a metal impeller unit it could be ok for another 100k. I fear if i force it off i may be trying to scrape/pry off this white glue stuff for a while.

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Looks like they used silicon in there. Stupid and unnecessary. It's probably going to be harder than normal to get out. Here's what I do to loosen the water pump when I do a timing belt.

First, put the three bolts back in, but only about halfway. Then use them as a pivot point with a pry bar. You would be prying up on the waterpump sprocket evenly on each bolt head. It's important that you do it evenly as the pump is installed into a bore with an O-ring gasket (that's why there is no need for silicon or other sealant there). As the pump gets loosened you would need to turn out the bolts more to make room for the pump to be removed.

Similar prybar that I have except mine cost a lot because of the words SNAP ON. https://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-17-In...ocphy=9027781&hvtargid=pla-490536225086&psc=1

I can see the photo ok, used the same process as the previous photos....Yea, i would rather change it. I tried prying on it from above with a pry bar and it sounded like the plastic was going to break, dosent seem to have any good places to pry from

Well, I'm on hi-speed cable and I cannot see any of the photos.

At least someone can.... Definitely try to get that water pump out of there man.

3baudios said:

I can see the photo ok, used the same process as the previous photos....Yea, i would rather change it. I tried prying on it from above with a pry bar and it sounded like the plastic was going to break, dosent seem to have any good places to pry from

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You are posting photos from some site that no one else can see but you because we are not logged into that account. Post it in another photo hosting site or figure out how to share the photos publicly.

Did you even read the post I made about how to get the pump out? Maybe it wasn't clear to you.

3baudios said:

I can see the photo ok, used the same process as the previous photos....Yea, i would rather change it. I tried prying on it from above with a pry bar and it sounded like the plastic was going to break, dosent seem to have any good places to pry from

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Let's just say you don't change it...it will eventually fail or maybe it makes it another 100k...it has to come out at some point, under your hands or someone doing it after it leaves you stranded...and could possibly cause the meeting of valves and pistons, which gets far more expensive in the long run

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3baudios said:

I can see the photo ok, used the same process as the previous photos....Yea, i would rather change it. I tried prying on it from above with a pry bar and it sounded like the plastic was going to break, dosent seem to have any good places to pry from

Click to expand...

The photos are on Google's cloud, you must have a secret token to see them, some of us can, some can't. Not gonna do computer support unless asked

Can someone tell me what the heck that is I'm looking at? Looks like someone used some other material in lieu of bolts to hold the water pump and maybe the rear cover.
If you left it like that and you had a breakdown, say when your 1000 miles from home, you might expect the mechanic to tell you you need a new engine.

the images are on google, not sure how to make them visible to everyone though, when i try to 'share' and create a link it does not show up as a photo, but it seems to work as a URL.


got the water pump out finally, it was a LOT of work... this is a lot of silicone...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/o5AjLzALZGxajoX56

Oh thats nasty. Definitely make sure you get all of that out.. Don't need it plugging up the EGR cooler.. or worse...

Nero Morg said:

Oh thats nasty. Definitely make sure you get all of that out.. Don't need it plugging up the EGR cooler.. or worse...

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yea, i cleaned it out very well before i put the new one in...