5 Engine codes. Speculators welcome

Picked up a cheap parts 03 TDI ALH Jetta today. Starts great, then smokes like a bugger. Seller said it started after hitting a snow drift. I haven't begun diagnostics yet.

Has these 5 codes, I think it's IP.

What do you think the failure is? Place your bets!

I guess it sucked in melted snow and is burning water.

Forgot to include important point. Happened 2yrs ago...

Check the harness for the injection pump, looks like a loose wire or wires.

The smoking can be caused by a loose or damaged charge pipe or I/C itself.
It is located in front of the passenger front wheel and is vulnerable to crash damage.
Try to find a real VCDS to read the codes, too. It will save you from guessing.

Did you find any carnage when got under it? If it in fact started after hitting a snow drift I'd suspect something got knock loose.

Car just got delivered. Had quick look. Intercooler hose was off. Unsure if this was due to previous owner snow drift hit, or if disconnected during previous owner diagnostics.

Doubt disconnected IC hose would cause all of this, but it certainly don't help. Too bloody cold to reconnect frozen rubber up here right now. If it was off that long some crud probably got sucked into intake and pooched the internals.

Will log the adventure here, this should be fun.

While you wait for warmer weather try to find a local VCDS and recheck after
reconnecting the charge hose. The engine may have inhaled some road dirt but that
probably won't throw any codes. The turbo stayed clean but could have oversped.

flee said:

While you wait for warmer weather try to find a local VCDS and recheck after

Click to expand...

X2. Or if this is a long term project, spend the $200 and get the VCDS entheusiast package/cable. Gives you access to use VCDS on up to 3 VINs.
It'll pay for itself the second you need a new key matched to the car.


For the speculators welcome part:
What temps? Cold weather could actually cause the misfire(sends code) but immediately settles itself out.

Also, I dont recognize that as 5 codes. Maybe i over think this, but code 3 is the basic way of expressing the following two codes(4 and 5)
Or simply, 4 and 5 are explaining what code 3 is, specifically. (Not exactly helpful statement, but may ease your mind from thinking a thousand things are wrong)

Did you say the car sat for 2 years? Could be old fuel, or summer fuel with no anti gel agents? Thus, cold temps cause problems.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

Got the pipe on, cleared the codes.

Running quite a bit better after I let it run a bit, but still smoking like Popeye. Codes haven't come back yet and missing is less. Need to run timing chart.

Agree with you guys 2 or 1 issue from codes. Causation/effect. Either fuel issue, or issue parallel to fuel. Actually noticed injector 1 is leaking.

Motor mount on tranny side is toast also, so maybe took a whallop.

Weirdly enough it was doing opposite of most diesels. Starts like a champ and runs great 5-10sec, then starts choking harder after that.

Lots of smoke too, at -25C I had to shutter down to make sure neighbors didn't call the fire dept. ��

Just ordered VCDS, keep ya'll posted with the fun train.

Got the pipe on, cleared the codes.

Running quite a bit better after I let it run a bit, but still smoking like Popeye. Codes haven't come back yet and missing is less. Need to run timing chart.

Agree with you guys 2 or 1 issue from codes. Causation/effect. Either fuel issue, or issue parallel to fuel. Actually noticed injector 1 is leaking.

Motor mount on tranny side is toast also, so maybe took a whallop.

Weirdly enough it was doing opposite of most diesels. Starts like a champ and runs great 5-10sec, then starts choking harder after that.

Lots of smoke too, at -25C I had to shutter down to make sure neighbors didn't call the fire dept. ?

Just ordered VCDS, keep ya'll posted with the fun train.

Compression test is probably a good idea. Good luck!

VCDS arrived so I scanned it. Clearly fuel side. Keep in mind it's -32C without the wind during this test so I let coolant get up to about 55C.

Results:
INJECTION QUANTITY: (Erratic behaviour bouncing between following values)
RPM: 820-970..... IQ: 6-13mg/str..... Piston Disp: 1.58-1.92V

INJECTOR DEVIATION: (Very steady, no bouncing)
Cyl1: -1.86mg/str..... Cyl2: 1.81mg/str..... Cyl3: -1.86mg/str..... Cyl4: 1.88mg/str

Timing is 100% bang on the blue line.

Turbo appears to react excellent by the numbers.

MAF has some variation (500 even when pedal blipped) but it was still cold so don't want to give 100% reliability to that result.

CONCLUSION: Very likely a fuel side issue. Erratic IP voltage certainly points to a wire/shorting issue as many of you first suggested. And it seems to be pumping a ton of fuel (IQ) even for being cold, no? When I first started it, IQ was over 20mg/str, but again Canadian cold. She sounds better the more it runs, just pumps smoke like a bugger.

Leaky injector 1 and injector variation are not helping, will replace those for sure.

Luckily I picked up injectors (full body) and an IP last night so should be able to rule out the fuel hunch completely via swap-nostics. If that doesn't fix it, something pooched inside.

1st task: Warm up
2nd task: Trace IP wiring and connectors.
3rd task: Change injectors.
4th task: Re-test.
5th task if not fixed: Swap IP.
If not fixed then and all looks good, likely swap engine.

Missing anything? Care to opine?

Last time I saw numbers like that was on my dad's car. The electromagnet had metal all over it. Ended up taking the pump to DFIS and having it overhauled. Been absolutely perfect since then. I'd try checking the electromagnet, see if it looks all fuzzy.

Interesting Nero. Sorry not familiar with IP internals. There's a magnet in it? Is that how they operate? Can you explain a bit more?

I'm likely going to opt for the brute force method and just swap the whole pump, but still interested to learn the fine print on these things.

Hey where about are you located? I'm just north of Winnipeg. Nice to know someone else diagnosing a TDI - and has VCDS - I just bought a cheap knock off cable and am using the free version right now. What did you order out of curiosity?

I have a few extra sensors and a good Bosch MAF should you need anything to help diagnosis the car....oh and also a glow plug extractor kit lol.

Hey bud I'm in St James. Definitely good to know some other locals. Not a lot of VCDS up here it seems. I got from Rossland Tech, (Canadian shipping not from US).

Verdict is still out about whether it's worth it or not. All it really does above my $5 ebay scanner is Timing and Fuel numbers (IQ/Injector dev). Other than timing I didn't need VCDS to infer this stuff. Can't even program a key without the pin from Vag Tacho as far as I know. The adaptations are ok I guess. Not sure if $300 OK. Maybe $100-150CAD OK.

Maybe I'm not well versed enough yet. Connector was even bugging but they were really quick to respond to support. Verdict still out IMO, further discussion better for another thread or PM.

Inside the fuel pump there's a "cam plate" that changes the amount the plungers displace fuel in order to Rev up the engine. On our ALH engines it's drive by wire, so there's an electomagnet inside the pump that controls the throttle. If the injection quantity is fluctuating a lot (more than 0.2mg/s) at idle at operating temperature, it's usually caused by metal all over the electromagnet causing the magnetic fields to collapse, thus the ecm tries to compensate by adjusting the voltage to the pump.

This is an incredibly helpful share Nero. Really appreciate that, had no idea. Will run a few of these swapnostics when it warms up.

Swapped injectors (used replacement). Car running much better now. Still some smoke, but less now. Less misfires. But still not quite right.

Here's the interesting part:

Injector deviation is still 1.88 across the board, which tells me the issue HAS to be now coming from injector pump. Pump voltage is still jumping around a lot. Issue is likely either inside IP (magnet, other issue), or the wiring (likely where the driver side engine mount is broke. Many core wires running there.

Oddly I noticed a yellow residue in the snow under the exhaust melt. Pretty bright. Unburned diesel? Never seen it before. Ideas?

Yellow would be diesel. Power steering on these cars is green, coolant is pink. Unless it's brake fluid, but it'd mostly look clear

AceTdi said:

Swapped injectors (used replacement). Car running much better now. Still some smoke, but less now. Less misfires. But still not quite right.
Here's the interesting part:
Injector deviation is still 1.88 across the board, which tells me the issue HAS to be now coming from injector pump. Pump voltage is still jumping around a lot. Issue is likely either inside IP (magnet, other issue), or the wiring (likely where the driver side engine mount is broke. Many core wires running there.
Oddly I noticed a yellow residue in the snow under the exhaust melt. Pretty bright. Unburned diesel? Never seen it before. Ideas?

Click to expand...

Pump voltage jumping around could be compensating lack of power on some cylinders. Compression test it. Warm and cold engine.

Thanks pdtdiarl. It has been compression tested OK by previous owner so I've pushed a confirmation of this result back on a reasonable assumption the test is correct.

AceTdi said:

Thanks pdtdiarl. It has been compression tested OK by previous owner so I've pushed a confirmation of this result back on a reasonable assumption the test is correct.

Click to expand...

What values did you get on that compression test?

AceTdi said:

Verdict is still out about whether it's worth it or not. All it really does above my $5 ebay scanner is Timing and Fuel numbers (IQ/Injector dev). Other than timing I didn't need VCDS to infer this stuff. Can't even program a key without the pin from Vag Tacho as far as I know. The adaptations are ok I guess. Not sure if $300 OK. Maybe $100-150CAD OK.

Click to expand...

VCDS does more then timing & fuel numbers.
You can check all the engine electronics with it and record them while running down the road.

One of the first screens where you select the engine blocks should show you the other modules it can check.
I used it to find my ABS code so I did not have to guess at what tripped a code.

Check the Rosstech site for what it will do all around.

Anyone know what these 2 orange/brown wires are the ground for? This is under battery tray. Pretty rusty.

In addition to IP voltage jumping, starter won't engage intermittently. Solenoid doesn't click.

Thinking both are being caused by the broken driver side motor mount (or bushing) right in this area.

So naturally I'm hoping these 2 wires are the ground for the starter solenoid and the IP. lol

VW is famous for redundant grounds. Hard to say where those 2 go, wiring diagram or just follow them back. Clean them up, check the ground on the block as well.

Bob the ground on the block you're talking the main ground from the negative battery terminal? Driver side of block under/near vacuum pump area?

Yes, it's actually on the transmission case, can't miss it.

Both ground wires are for the ABS