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General Automotive General automotive discussion. This is intended to be a discussion about other not VW and Diesel cars you may have or interested in.

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Old August 4th, 2015, 10:59   #1
beeeerock
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Default Made the Move to Tesla

After 15 years of driving diesel - 2 Jettas, a Passat, two A3's and a M-B E-Class - I packed it all in three months ago to try driving carbon-free. The list of reasons why I bought my Tesla is long, but it really boils down to one thing - doing the right thing for my kids. Yes, 'climate change'. Believe it or deny it as you will, the transition to renewable will have to come eventually. I've chosen to do it now.
Happily, the transition has been painless and in fact, enjoyable.
When I moved from gasoline to diesel, I realized I could never go back (and I didn't). The move to pure electric has been the same sort of revelation. I couldn't go back to the ICE now either. My Alfa is up for sale now too.
I'm not posting this to be a dick. If you're reading this, it's because you're a car person and can likely appreciate almost every car at one level or another. That's me as well. I'm posting, because as car people you all deserve to take a drive in a Tesla to see what is possible. I thought they were just for tree-huggers - turns out, they're pretty frickin' awesome too.
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Old August 4th, 2015, 11:12   #2
meerschm
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Enjoy the ride!
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Old August 4th, 2015, 11:52   #3
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Old August 4th, 2015, 12:07   #4
tongsli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeeerock View Post
After 15 years of driving diesel - 2 Jettas, a Passat, two A3's and a M-B E-Class - I packed it all in three months ago to try driving carbon-free. The list of reasons why I bought my Tesla is long, but it really boils down to one thing - doing the right thing for my kids. Yes, 'climate change'. Believe it or deny it as you will, the transition to renewable will have to come eventually. I've chosen to do it now.
Happily, the transition has been painless and in fact, enjoyable.
When I moved from gasoline to diesel, I realized I could never go back (and I didn't). The move to pure electric has been the same sort of revelation. I couldn't go back to the ICE now either. My Alfa is up for sale now too.
I'm not posting this to be a dick. If you're reading this, it's because you're a car person and can likely appreciate almost every car at one level or another. That's me as well. I'm posting, because as car people you all deserve to take a drive in a Tesla to see what is possible. I thought they were just for tree-huggers - turns out, they're pretty frickin' awesome too.
Congrats, I hope to drive electric vehicle before I die. It's on my bucket list. Wish I could afford a Tesla. Thanks for posting and sharing.
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Old August 4th, 2015, 12:59   #5
Gibby
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Congrats on a sweet ride, but carbon free. If you plug her on chances are some coal was burnt along the way.
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Old August 4th, 2015, 13:16   #6
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I think the Model S is one amazing car, but there's just no way in the world I could ever justify buying one.

Lease alone in Ontario, Canada (for the 70 kWh RWD base model only, not the P85D) is CAD $1,163/mth (48 mths and a limit of 20,000 km/yr, $8,500 tax incentive incl., includes charge for non-blah paint and required-for-Canada subzero weather package).

If you allow for a financing payment of $500/mth for a lesser car, it leaves a difference of $663 monthly for fuel and maintenance, which is pretty darn easy to beat. Hell, I pay ~$250/mth to fuel TWO cars, at the moment. Then add to it the fact that after 4 years, the cheaper car would be yours (loan paid) and the Tesla is simply no longer yours and you have to start over or buy it out.

In my case (and I can't be alone), I'd also have to have my buried hydro service from the street upgraded from 100 A to 200 A, replace the main load panel, and add a 240 V plug in the garage, and pay even more exorbitant hydro bills than I already do. Never. gonna. happen.
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Old August 4th, 2015, 13:27   #7
IndigoBlueWagon
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I think the Tesla is a beautiful car. It's just that it's about twice the car I'd like to own. And what do you do if you want to drive more than the car's range in a day? My son lives about 130 miles away, and I couldn't make a round trip to visit him in a day (which I frequently do), especially in winter. What I'd really like is half a Tesla for daily driving, and a nice diesel Mercedes for long trips.

And with all due respect, the environmental impact of building and generating power for your Tesla probably far outweighs the impact of continuing to drive what you have.
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Old August 4th, 2015, 13:47   #8
JSWTDI09
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How much of the electric power in BC comes from coal? I know in the US about half of all electricity is generated by burning coal (more in some areas). I know much electricity in eastern Canada comes from Hydro in Quebec. Does all that Hydro power make it to BC or are you powered by other sources? I really do not know.

Electric cars are cool, but they are not necessarily green. The lithium mining and the battery production is far from green and in many places in the world an electric car is really a coal powered car. It is easy to be fooled by the advertising hype and to neglect the facts.

Eco-friendly (like many other things in life) is a continuum and where along that continuum any given car fits is widely open to debate. It could be argued that a Tesla is "greener" that a clean diesel, but it could just as easily be argued that the opposite is true. It all depends on which facts you choose to focus on.

I hope you enjoy your Tesla as much (or more) than you enjoyed your TDIs.

Have Fun!

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Old August 4th, 2015, 14:06   #9
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Participating in the transition to renewable energy is a wonderful thing.

and it sounds like a great drive.

I share a commute route with at least one Tesla owner, and he seems to enjoy the ride quite a bit, even in what can be annoying traffic.

over the life of any new BEV, the energy used will only get cleaner. and as production continues, the materials source and manufacturing process will improve as well.

the opposite is true of a new Diesel, which emit more as systems malfunction, and as some fraction are illegally modified to disable the emissions controls.

there is also a heck of a lot less to go wrong with a BEV, (of course a few new ones are there) and the efficiency is much higher than with any fossil fuel vehicle. EPA estimate for the latest Tesla is around 90 mpge and they whine about how unfair the estimate is.
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Old August 4th, 2015, 14:20   #10
tongsli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
I think the Tesla is a beautiful car. It's just that it's about twice the car I'd like to own. And what do you do if you want to drive more than the car's range in a day? My son lives about 130 miles away, and I couldn't make a round trip to visit him in a day (which I frequently do), especially in winter. What I'd really like is half a Tesla for daily driving, and a nice diesel Mercedes for long trips.

And with all due respect, the environmental impact of building and generating power for your Tesla probably far outweighs the impact of continuing to drive what you have.
Everybody says this but nobody talks about the impact and consequence of producing/extracting/importing petroleum as if there is none and only electric made from coal is an issue or problem.

The only form of electricity generation with the lowest environmental impact is wind and solar. So that represents the only "viable" future alternative to fossil fuels.
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Old August 4th, 2015, 14:25   #11
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I agree that producing diesel is far from environmentally neutral. The only hope I have is that oil prices drop enough to stop fracking long enough to allow regulatory agencies time to notice the impact of that technology and do something about it. I'm probably dreaming on that one.

But people also tend to ignore the resources and energy required to build a car. And the environmental impact of disposing of one. Not nothing.
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Old August 4th, 2015, 14:32   #12
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Is anyone aware of a good academic report which compares the two, cradle to grave?
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Old August 4th, 2015, 14:34   #13
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It isnt really an "academic report" but this article from pop-sci is decent. Basically, to save the environment is probably not the right reason to buy a Tesla, but its definitely a step in the right direction.

One argument I didn't see in this article is that even if effective emissions from EVs and ICE powered vehicles were equal, the pollution from an EV is usually produced somewhere further away from where humans reside than an ICE powered vehicle, which is definitely a good thing, but you're still not solving global warming or anything.

http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2...llute-more-suv
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Old August 4th, 2015, 16:20   #14
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In today's balance of electricity generation, an EV might not be "greener" or emit less CO2 than a decent combustion-engine vehicle, BUT, it opens the possibility for using "greener" electricity sources in the future without having to change how we distribute that electricity. If you want to (and can afford it), you can put up solar panels etc and be free of coal-powered electricity generation today.

Canada has made significant moves to get away from coal-fired electricity generation. http://www.eia.gov/beta/internationa...generation.png It's not shown on this chart, but the "fossil" is about evenly split between coal and natural gas. This is from 2012 and I would assume that the wind/solar portion has increased since then.

Now if only the NIMBY folks who oppose every wind turbine could be dealt with in some way ...

The Tesla is the one EV available today that I consider to be a decent car ... and it is really good. Yes, it is a high-end vehicle. I still see more Teslas on the road than any other EV. Congrats on the purchase.
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Old August 4th, 2015, 16:37   #15
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Tesla is a fantastic car, and congrats on going carbon free as best as you can. My dad has solar and an electric Ford Fiesta (I wouldn't have chosen that, but he got suckered at the dealership).

I'm considering dumping the Jeep Liberty CRD for an eGolf lease for our city driving. And here in LA, there is lots of that.
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