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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old December 16th, 2018, 13:07   #3496
TornadoRed
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Just trying to figure out how to post results how are you uploading?
The easiest way is to save or convert the image to a JPEG. Then click on "Photos" in the forum menu bar and log in to http://pics.tdiclub.com; you have to log in again with your forum password. Upload your file there, then link to that photo/file when you want to share it. (Sharing a PDF file doesn't work very well.)

For a guy who's been a TDI Club member for over 18 years, member #2388, you should have been able to figure this out. But it looks like you've owned many TDIs and perhaps they were mostly trouble-free, so you didn't have reasons to come here very often?
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'03 Golf with 745k miles: Bosio DLC 764, GT1749VB, PP 2.5" downpipe, Malone tuning, VR6/G60 clutch/flywheel, Bilstein HDs, Recaros, Akebono pads/Brembo rotors, Cat filter with Nicktane head, DG Panzer w/FMJ, Blizzaks, TDT or Delvac1
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Old December 16th, 2018, 13:47   #3497
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Default TDI Used Oil Lab Analyses Results & Discussions

Lol I don’t think I have ever posted a pic here. uploaded pic in photos in forum can not fiquire how to link it back to show up in forum why is this so painfull have never seen a sight so hard to put a pic up must be old school needs updated not user friendly


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Old December 16th, 2018, 18:07   #3498
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My latest oil analysis. Looks pretty good.
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Old December 16th, 2018, 18:11   #3499
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Lol I donít think I have ever posted a pic here. uploaded pic in photos in forum cannot figure how to link it back to show up in forum why is this so painful have never seen a sight so hard to put a pic up must be old school needs updated not user friendly
Almost any photo-hosting site will work; TDI Club's photo-hosting is not the simplest but it eventually works.
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Old December 16th, 2018, 21:33   #3500
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Old December 29th, 2018, 14:07   #3501
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First oil analysis on this TDI. 30,000 miles.
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Old February 10th, 2019, 10:22   #3502
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Default 03 ALH: Elevated Chrome, Iron, and Viscosity, Why?

Hello all,
Enclosed is my oil report for my 03 TDI wagon, 168,000 miles and the car was serviced by the dealer for the first 100,000 miles. Since my purchase of the car at 100,000 miles it has been religiously serviced on time, using Mann filters, Shell Rotella T6 for the past 68,000 miles, Lubro Moly diesel purge done every 20,000 miles. Intake cleaned at 100,000 miles then again at 156,000 due to being clogged again (why is this? I thought the ULSD eliminated this issue).
The person I purchased the car from ordered it new and stated it had gotten progressively worse fuel mileage, started at 50 mpg when new and ending at around 43. I have averaged 43 over the past 68,000 miles. Car runs great, consumes 1/2 quart of oil per 10,000 miles, and has no driveability issues.
As you can see via the report my chrome, iron, and viscosity numbers are too high.
After reading the entire thread I am confused and could use some help. My primary concern is fixing the issue that is causing these elevated numbers. In fixing those issues I hope to fix my fuel economy issue.
Thank you for any help you can provide,
Peter
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Old February 10th, 2019, 11:10   #3503
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Hello all,
Enclosed is my oil report for my 03 TDI wagon, 168,000 miles and the car was serviced by the dealer for the first 100,000 miles. Since my purchase of the car at 100,000 miles it has been religiously serviced on time, using Mann filters, Shell Rotella T6 for the past 68,000 miles, Lubro Moly diesel purge done every 20,000 miles. Intake cleaned at 100,000 miles then again at 156,000 due to being clogged again (why is this? I thought the ULSD eliminated this issue).
The person I purchased the car from ordered it new and stated it had gotten progressively worse fuel mileage, started at 50 mpg when new and ending at around 43. I have averaged 43 over the past 68,000 miles. Car runs great, consumes 1/2 quart of oil per 10,000 miles, and has no driveability issues.
As you can see via the report my chrome, iron, and viscosity numbers are too high.
After reading the entire thread I am confused and could use some help. My primary concern is fixing the issue that is causing these elevated numbers. In fixing those issues I hope to fix my fuel economy issue.
Thank you for any help you can provide,
Peter
Blackstone doesnít measure soot, all you get from them is a value for insoluables which is quite low @ 0.3%. I donít see how they can say with any confidence that itís ďsootyĒ ?

There is excessive wear, including soft metal wear from the bearings. Excessive viscosity can contribute to high wear but not may be the sole cause of it.

The oil has thickened to a 50 wt. Oil Thickening in diesels is usually caused by high soot and oil oxidation due to aging. Blackstone doesnít measure oxidation and TBN wasnít done so age related thickening canít be ruled out. Thickening can also be caused by coolant contamination, however blackstone didnít find any evidence of antifreeze.

It sounds like you may have a combustion issue based on having the intake cleaned so frequently. This needs to be resolved to rule out soot related thickening.

You may want to try the following:

Check EGR valve function. Make sure itís not stuck open.
Check injector balance.

If those ^^^ above pass then consider doing the following:

Reduce EGR flow to minimum using adaptation in VCDS.
Try using higher quality fuel and adding a combustion improver/catalyst that raises cetane to 50.
Injector replacement. OEM or upgrade to PP357 or DLC 520 w/ balancing.

Try using a different oil. M1 TDT gives better results than T6 and similarly priced. You can also try one of the Amsoil diesel oils which are also excellent. There are also quality oils from Renewable Lubricants, Ravenol, Kendall and Schaeffer.

Use a different oil analysis company that provides Soot, Oxidation, and TBN values. I recommend Oil Analyzers prepaid kit which is $35.

Thatís all I can think of. I would do this immeadiately because those metal numbers in all your previous samples are much higher than normal.
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Old February 10th, 2019, 12:10   #3504
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The problem is not the oil. Countless UOA reports have proved out the very effective lubrication RT6 provides in tdi's. I'd say the problem is in the egr or fuel injection systems.

[QUOTE][ #8
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The CJ-4 oils provide the best performance based on many years of comparative oil analysis testing on this site and CK-4 represents a significant upgrade in performance over that, based on tightly controlled, API engine sequence testing. So you can predict with a very high level of confidence that CK-4 oils will hold up the best and provide optimum protection from wear/deposits, very low oil consumption and good fuel efficiency (in the case of the 5w-30 grades).

TS
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Old February 10th, 2019, 12:26   #3505
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Actually with the limited information provided by blackstone, the report does indicate a problem with the lubricant as the insolubles were low and there was no coolant contamination.

T6 was reformulated as CK-4/SN in 2017. There is only one sample report on here from the current formula and it also showed early thickening and premature TBN loss at 10k miles in a 1.9 TDI.




[QUOTE=turbobrick240;5482638]The problem is not the oil. Countless UOA reports have proved out the very effective lubrication RT6 provides in tdi's. I'd say the problem is in the egr or fuel injection systems.
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The CJ-4 oils provide the best performance based on many years of comparative oil analysis testing on this site and CK-4 represents a significant upgrade in performance over that, based on tightly controlled, API engine sequence testing. So you can predict with a very high level of confidence that CK-4 oils will hold up the best and provide optimum protection from wear/deposits, very low oil consumption and good fuel efficiency (in the case of the 5w-30 grades).
TS
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Old February 10th, 2019, 12:56   #3506
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Well, that one report shows better than average wear numbers.... Blackstone mentions soot as the likely cause of thickening there too. At 350k miles the injector spray patterns are probably less than perfect- assuming they are original.
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Old February 10th, 2019, 15:26   #3507
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Well, that one report shows better than average wear numbers.... Blackstone mentions soot as the likely cause of thickening there too. At 350k miles the injector spray patterns are probably less than perfect- assuming they are original.
Blackstone doesnít measure soot with IR. They only measure insoluables which is soot + other suspended solids. 0.3% is the value for both reports and is completely normal. Their commentary is worthless and this is a prime example why.

The Spray pattern of the injectors is questionable, however the oil sample itself doesnít show any evidence of soot related thickening. I would guess the oil thickened in both samples due to oxidation. The new T6 doesnít appear to be suitable for the ALH at a 10k interval which is why I recommended Mr. A57oval try something else in 5w40 in addition to finding the cause of his intake plugging up.

Here is my last report using M1 TDT CJ-4. It held up much better without any oxidative thickening and 1/2 the wear metals. Also notice the soot was measured by IR at the same 0.3%.

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Old February 10th, 2019, 15:55   #3508
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If the oil was suffering from oxidation, the TBN would be depleted. Blackstone uses a centrifuge to measure insolubles, and soot will conglomerate on the sides of the test tube, thus not giving an accurate measure of the soot load.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...Number=1591757
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Old February 10th, 2019, 18:08   #3509
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Thank you for taking the time to help me with this issue.
CLeverUserName,
Based on what your saying I should be checking EGR function and Injector balance. I failed to mention that I had to replace my EGR valve because it started to weep soot out of it after I cleaned it the first time so I wouldn't think that would be the issue. However I should read up on how the EGR functions, what controls it, and how to verify the system. I have a VCDS cable but am very ignorant in how to use it. Time to learn.
I will also look up "Injector balance" learn about that system, and how use VCDS to test it.
A question for you; You mentioned that Shell reformulated their T6 in 2017. Based on my previous oil reports dated before 2017 would it be fair to eliminate the Shell as the issue? My number seem to be pretty crappy both before and after 2017.
Fuel: I try to buy diesel from high volume stores locally and put Silver bottle Power Service in at every fill. About 4 ounces. I use the white bottle when its below freezing but that is very rare around Seattle.
Turbobrick 240:
What would be to first thing to check? Injectors and EGR function as CleverUserName suggested? Or do you think I should be looking elsewhere?
CleverUserName: You said;
"The Spray pattern of the injectors is questionable, however the oil sample itself doesnít show any evidence of soot related thickening. I would guess the oil thickened in both samples due to oxidation. The new T6 doesnít appear to be suitable for the ALH at a 10k interval which is why I recommended Mr. A57oval try something else in 5w40 in addition to finding the cause of his intake plugging up."
Is the plugging up of the intake related to oil quality? Maybe I should do this injector balance check and then have the injectors cleaned and balanced?
Can you recommend a company that does this? Do you think this would be necessary at 168,000 miles?
Sorry for all of the seemingly stupid questions. Truth is I am not fluid in this sort of problem. I got some lurnin' to do.
Thanks for everyone's input. Keep it coming.
Peter
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Old February 10th, 2019, 18:39   #3510
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If the oil was suffering from oxidation, the TBN would be depleted. Blackstone uses a centrifuge to measure insolubles, and soot will conglomerate on the sides of the test tube, thus not giving an accurate measure of the soot load.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...Number=1591757
Thatís not always true. Antioxidants prevent oxidation and detergents/dispersants (mg and ca) maintain alkalinity. Two different chemistries with different ingredients. If the formula was imbalanced I think you could see thickening while TBN was still positive. From my own experience, I have a sample that TBN was nearly depleted and the oil still stayed in grade (5w30).

Blackstone uses a centrifuge and test tube to measure TOTAL insoluables, meaning soot is supposed to be included in the number.

And remember the other report I posted with T6 also showed similar thickening, however blackstone said the everything as fine, Engine was healthy and insoluables read 0.3%. The only similarity between both cars is the oil.

Also to add one more thing. I have NEVER seen any conclusive soot related thickening with ULSD w/ a conservative diesel OCI of 10k Miles. Not on any forums or tests I had run for my personal vehicles.
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