Question regarding purchase of a 15 or 16 model

Hello everyone. I hope I am putting this in the correct place. I am looking to get another passat. I had a 2004 tdi and am looking at getting another. My question is should I get a TDI buyback with low mileage or go with a 16 model with the 1.8? I like the diesel as having one before but like the offerings of the 1.8 running 87 octane which is much cheaper. Just looking for opinions and/or experiences some of you have had with these and what you would recommend. I like the tech updates on the 2016 too.

Another question I have is why is the 2016 1.8L rated at 38 mpg hwy and the the 2017 and newer are rated at 34 mpg hwy. What causes the drop in MPG? That is why I am leaning toward the 2016 due to the higher mpg hwy while using 87 octane.

I know that this is a TDI forum and apologize if the the gasser questions are out of place. Just looking for your opinions on the tdi or the newer 1.8L models if any of you all have owned one.. I realize this is a bias board due to its nature. Thank you all in advance for any comments.

Too many problems reported with the '15 TDI's. If you are set on purchasing a used VW do a lot of homework on reliability reports (e.g., Consumer Reports data) before pulling the trigger. To me that is much more important than a few miles per gallon difference.

Tom in PT said:

Too many problems reported with the '15 TDI's. If you are set on purchasing a used VW do a lot of homework on reliability reports (e.g., Consumer Reports data) before pulling the trigger. To me that is much more important than a few miles per gallon difference.

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Thank you for the reply. Is it just the 15 model TDI? 12-14 TDI better reliability? 16 and newer 1.8L Better? I will definitely research the reliability issues. Thank you for the info. If you have any opinion on the above mentioned models, I would like to hear your input. Thank you again.

Well, for 16 and newer, there is no diesel. I guess that makes the 1.8l gasser the better option.

We have been happy MkIV owners for 20 years. When (her) car was replaced by a stop-sale 2015 Mk7 I was skeptical, and expected problems and lower FE than the MkIV. After 20,000 miles her car was so good (zero problems and 47MPG in mixed city/hwy) that I decided to get another one. The MkIVs are still in the family, but the 2015 GSWs have been impressive. I can't speak to the Passat or Jetta, but the Gen3 2.0L has been great. I specifically avoided the Mk6 TDIs because of HPFP problems, and the Mk7 provides a warranty that's almost too good to be true.

Tom's advice about used VW's is sound, but it applies to gassers, too (although IMO CR has become a punchline and not a resource over the last decade). The 1.8T has mixed reviews for maint issues as the miles grow, and the 1.4T has similar feel and amazing FE. Of course, that would push you from a Passat to a J or GSW, both of which are quite roomy (and the GSW handles better than the others).

HTH:

CARS.COM — Shopping for a 2017 model-year car? Beware: The EPA has changed how it calculates window-sticker gas mileage for 2017 in an effort to better reflect real-world mileage, according to the agency and automakers. And the agency has announced almost nothing about it.

That means that more than a quarter of all new cars could see a reduction in their EPA combined mileage. As a result, new-car shoppers will see mileage numbers on the window stickers of some 2017 model-year cars that are lower than their 2016 predecessors, even though the cars have no mechanical differences.

kjclow said:

Well, for 16 and newer, there is no diesel. I guess that makes the 1.8l gasser the better option.

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correct.. I was inferring about the 1.8L with the newer models. Just trying to figure out if I want to go with TDI 2013-2015 or go 2016 or newer and get the 1.8L.

hskrdu said:

HTH:

CARS.COM — Shopping for a 2017 model-year car? Beware: The EPA has changed how it calculates window-sticker gas mileage for 2017 in an effort to better reflect real-world mileage, according to the agency and automakers. And the agency has announced almost nothing about it.

That means that more than a quarter of all new cars could see a reduction in their EPA combined mileage. As a result, new-car shoppers will see mileage numbers on the window stickers of some 2017 model-year cars that are lower than their 2016 predecessors, even though the cars have no mechanical differences.

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Thank you for that. This is the first I have heard of that. Clears it up on why the mpg rating is differnt.

hskrdu said:

We have been happy MkIV owners for 20 years. When (her) car was replaced by a stop-sale 2015 Mk7 I was skeptical, and expected problems and lower FE than the MkIV. After 20,000 miles her car was so good (zero problems and 47MPG in mixed city/hwy) that I decided to get another one. The MkIVs are still in the family, but the 2015 GSWs have been impressive. I can't speak to the Passat or Jetta, but the Gen3 2.0L has been great. I specifically avoided the Mk6 TDIs because of HPFP problems, and the Mk7 provides a warranty that's almost too good to be true.

Tom's advice about used VW's is sound, but it applies to gassers, too (although IMO CR has become a punchline and not a resource over the last decade). The 1.8T has mixed reviews for maint issues as the miles grow, and the 1.4T has similar feel and amazing FE. Of course, that would push you from a Passat to a J or GSW, both of which are quite roomy (and the GSW handles better than the others).

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I have looked at GSW and the Alltracks and like them. I am a big guy and really like the cabin seating space in the passat. Love the cargo space in gsw but also have a toddler and car seat. The passats are going for pretty decent prices now and those are reasons I was looking at the passats.

I was just wanting to get some feedback from you guys with the knowledge and experience on the last gen of TDIs from 2012-2015 as opposed to the 2016 tsi. Thank you all so far for your great input.

Tom in PT said:

Too many problems reported with the '15 TDI's. If you are set on purchasing a used VW do a lot of homework on reliability reports (e.g., Consumer Reports data) before pulling the trigger. To me that is much more important than a few miles per gallon difference.

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Too many problems with the '15s? I'm not sure that's accurate, but to each their own. I've got 110k on my 2015 and other than the DEF injector leaking, which is common across models, it's been fine. Great car.

was there a change between the 2015 TDI and the 2012-2014 TDI?

cneagle87 said:

I have looked at GSW and the Alltracks and like them. I am a big guy and really like the cabin seating space in the passat. Love the cargo space in gsw but also have a toddler and car seat. The passats are going for pretty decent prices now and those are reasons I was looking at the passats.

I was just wanting to get some feedback from you guys with the knowledge and experience on the last gen of TDIs from 2012-2015 as opposed to the 2016 tsi. Thank you all so far for your great input.

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Just remember that when thinking about the model years, the generations may be determined by engine, so "2012-2015" may not be the span that helps you compare cars. The Gen3 (EA288) engine (2015) is distinct from the earlier TDI that went into the Passat (or other platforms).

The Alltrack gets the 1.8T, as does the GSW with 4-Motion. Starting in 2019, the 1.4T found its way into the GSW with FWD (and in the S you could get a 6M). I drove the 1.4T in a rental Jetta for a 2000 mile trip. The car got an indicated 48MPG, real world 45.5MPG for the trip.

cneagle87 said:

was there a change between the 2015 TDI and the 2012-2014 TDI?

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Yes. EA288.
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/09/20150921-vw2l.html

Of the NMS Passat TDIs the '15s are the most reliable post-fix, and the only one I personally would seriously consider buying. We have a lot of customers with '15s that are having few, if any problems, including my son, who has a '15 SEL. The 12-14 cars didn't seem to adapt to the new programming as well.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Of the NMS Passat TDIs the '15s are the most reliable post-fix, and the only one I personally would seriously consider buying. We have a lot of customers with '15s that are having few, if any problems, including my son, who has a '15 SEL. The 12-14 cars didn't seem to adapt to the new programming as well.

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I've now gone over 50,000 miles post fix in my 2013, other than a slight decrease in mpg I have had zero issues other than routine maintenance.

Bought car used in 2014 with 30k miles for $18,000 - received over $6,000 in goodwill cards and lawsuit money and driven over 150,000 relatively trouble free miles. This will be one of the best deals i've ever gotten when it comes to a car for my sales job.

Lex- have you been able to accurately track your FE over those miles? Just curious what you are seeing pre/post/overall.

I think the 2019 Passats ditched the 1.8t for the 2.0T B cycle (less power than GTI more MPG, similar to that of the new tiguans) so it murks the waters even more.

I'd say, if you don't push +20K miles a year mainly highway, take the new tech of the TSI over the outdated Passat (RNS 512 is a royal POS on our '15).

I bought my '13 Passat TDI new and had the emission fix done as soon as it was available. The car has very low miles (~ 34,000). I had a heater core fail after only 26,000 miles and shortly after the fix was done. I expect the replacement core to fail too eventually and the clog of the cooling system to possibly have other symptoms later on. Other than that it has been reliable, so far. Several things concern me about this vehicle including the unbelievably high number of safely recalls for all kinds of things. The extended warranty provided by the fix, plus the $$$ was the only thing keeping me in this vehicle. I worry about the cost of repair when the fix extended warranty is up (in 3 years). The the emissions system on this vehicle is complex and very costly to diagnose and repair should it need repair (and it will eventually), My '05 has seen anvil-like reliability and seems like a much more robust and well made car.

Like other have noted, the fuel efficiency of the current crop of gas engines is almost as good as the older TDI's and if I were in the market for another VW I would be looking at the gassers.

I have the opportunity to drive all different VWs of various models and motors over the last 6-8 model years. My personal cars are a ‘14 passat tdi and ‘13 beetle tdi. Before deciding on a car, go drive them: ‘12-14 tdi, 15 TDI, 15-17 1.8 and 18+ 2.0 (if it fits the budget). If you can drive them back to back, that would be the best. I drove a 1.8 passat for awhile prior to purchasing my 14 passat, it’s a very different feel from the TDI. I love my tdi. I did have a couple of repairs in the first 9,000 miles. The heater core was clogged, water pump was leaking and seeping at the valve cover gasket. The last 23,000 miles have been trouble-free.

As to the 1.8, warranty on the 2019 is 6/72k. You can find gsw with less than 20k miles for under 11k. Warranty on 2018- 2019 is decent and they seem pretty reliable. Buying a low milage car means previous owner had less time to screw it up.

thundershorts said:

As to the 1.8, warranty on the 2019 is 6/72k. You can find gsw with less than 20k miles for under 11k. Warranty on 2018- 2019 is decent and they seem pretty reliable. Buying a low milage car means previous owner had less time to screw it up.

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6/72 is only a 2018 2019 MY warranty too, then goes back down to 3/36 for 2020.

Also they nurtured corrosion warranty 6 or so years and 120K. pittance really.

hskrdu said:

Lex- have you been able to accurately track your FE over those miles? Just curious what you are seeing pre/post/overall.

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Avg 35-37 pre
avg 33-35 post

I also idle quite a bit in my car since i am on the road and phone so much, and on the highway a lot which i am going 80mph so i am not knocking out of the park on efficiency.

And i can appreciate that an extended warranty make people all warm and fuzzy but it just doesnt matter to me, I will out run a warranty in a year. I want a reliable, good quality car. I plan on finding ways around the emissions issues in the future, and other than that they are fairly well built cars with a whole lots of room.

Lex Tdi said:

Avg 35-37 pre
avg 33-35 post

I also idle quite a bit in my car since i am on the road and phone so much, and on the highway a lot which i am going 80mph so i am not knocking out of the park on efficiency. And i can appreciate that an extended warranty make people all warm and fuzzy but it just doesnt matter to me, I will out run a warranty in a year. I want a reliable, good quality car. I plan on finding ways around the emissions issues in the future, and other than that they are fairly well built cars with a whole lots of room.

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Thx. I was just curious on your numbers.

740GLE said:

6/72 is only a 2018 2019 MY warranty too, then goes back down to 3/36 for 2020.

Also they nurtured corrosion warranty 6 or so years and 120K. pittance really.

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2020 is 4 years/50,000 miles bumper to bumper and powertrain.

Thanks to everyone for all their input. Been very helpful. I drove a 2016 SE w/46k miles yesterday. I was Pleased with how it drove. I drove it on a 15 mile route that would be similar to my daily commute and 37 mpg via the comp info display which was nice to see since I'm getting around 12mpg right now lol. Asking $14,000 for it. Going to see how much more they will come down and may pull the trigger on it.

I know most vehicles have their own quirks that are model related. Are there any that the 2016 tsi has that anyone may be aware of? I will try to search for this too but wanted to see if you all had any knowledge of any. Thank you all again.

ahh i guess they split the difference, of the older B2B and the uber warranty.

cneagle87 said:

Thanks to everyone for all their input. Been very helpful. I drove a 2016 SE w/46k miles yesterday. I was Pleased with how it drove. I drove it on a 15 mile route that would be similar to my daily commute and 37 mpg via the comp info display which was nice to see since I'm getting around 12mpg right now lol. Asking $14,000 for it. Going to see how much more they will come down and may pull the trigger on it.
I know most vehicles have their own quirks that are model related. Are there any that the 2016 tsi has that anyone may be aware of? I will try to search for this too but wanted to see if you all had any knowledge of any. Thank you all again.

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2016 did have a mild refresh but the chassis and "guts" of the NMS haven't changed since 2012, even the 2020 redesign still uses most of the 2012 stuff.

As for the TSI, lots of people will claim doom and gloom, but VW did wonders to simplify the engine, the turbo may go out at 80-100K or so but they are cheap. I'd keep an eye on transmission fluid exchanges to keep that happy, but i think motor on and enjoy the newer tech.

I'd say keep and eye on corrosion on the under side, the salt/maganese chloride crap mixtures they use in the north east eats everything.

740GLE said:

2016 did have a mild refresh but the chassis and "guts" of the NMS haven't changed since 2012, even the 2020 redesign still uses most of the 2012 stuff.
As for the TSI, lots of people will claim doom and gloom, but VW did wonders to simplify the engine, the turbo may go out at 80-100K or so but they are cheap. I'd keep an eye on transmission fluid exchanges to keep that happy, but i think motor on and enjoy the newer tech.
I'd say keep and eye on corrosion on the under side, the salt/maganese chloride crap mixtures they use in the north east eats everything.

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Thanks for the input. I will look at a vw extended warranty too if I can. The owner of the car was from Florida, so no Northeastern worries on that it.

740GLE said:

2016 did have a mild refresh but the chassis and "guts" of the NMS haven't changed since 2012, even the 2020 redesign still uses most of the 2012 stuff.
As for the TSI, lots of people will claim doom and gloom, but VW did wonders to simplify the engine, the turbo may go out at 80-100K or so but they are cheap. I'd keep an eye on transmission fluid exchanges to keep that happy, but i think motor on and enjoy the newer tech.
I'd say keep and eye on corrosion on the under side, the salt/maganese chloride crap mixtures they use in the north east eats everything.

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That's why I like to hear from you all because I haven't seen much about the 1.8 tsi.

There's not a lot here on Fred's about the 1.8T (for obvious reasons), but Brian (Oilhammer) has posted his experiences in some other threads that you might find helpful. VWVortex and other gasser sites will have more opinions.