1.6 JX v. 1.9 AAZ?

RI_TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2001
Location
Providence RI
TDI
'05 B5.5v, '89 DOKA Syncro
I'm on the hunt for a T3 DOKA Syncro pickup. It must be diesel. Depending on the vintage (pre-'94), they come with either the 1.6 TD (JX) or the 1.9 TD (AAZ). Can any of you offer informed opinion as to which is the better powerplant?

Secondary questions: I would ultimately love to install a TDI (AHU / ALH). For this purpose, would I be better off starting from the JX or AAZ? Or is this just a giant puzzle no matter which combination is selected?

Thanks in advance. Help a guy get a diesel back in the garage.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The T3 never got a 1.9L diesel.

They got a 1.6L diesel (we got those here from 1981 to 1983), a 1.7L diesel (unique to the T3), and a 1.6L turbodiesel (the JX engine you speak of).

The syncro would have just been equipped with either the 1.6L TD or one of the 2.1L waterboxers.

Since what you are after was never imported here, expect to pay a pretty penny to get a nice example. Remember, these were as common in Europe as F150s are here... and they are work trucks, so they got treated as such.

As far as engines, the AAZ as found in transverse A and B segment car applications makes 75hp. The JX is around 65hp. They are both of the same basic family, so you can swap over all the T3 diesel's mounting and plumbing bits to the AAZ and it is more or less just a direct bolt in deal, and you gain 10hp. I think if I was fortunate and wealthy enough to find a nice running 1.6L TD syncro T3, I'd leave it be as it is and enjoy it as it is. If I were to go through the effort to motor swap it, I'd probably pursue a TDI (or to make it simpler if you like, an "M-TDI" ) but this will involve plumbing an intercooler into the charge air tract in some way.... and then you start with 90hp and a lot more torque.
 
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RI_TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2001
Location
Providence RI
TDI
'05 B5.5v, '89 DOKA Syncro
Thanks, oilhammer. I've seen what you describe regarding price, availability and condition. Beautiful TriStar - but it's $30k and in Peru. Flippers taking a $5k Euro find with a little bodywork and a spray job asking $20k. etc etc Patience will win though. I hope.

A handful of the vehicles on the North American market present with AAZ and I've seen a few ALH. Not all of them explicitly identified it as a swapped engine. Can you confirm by M-TDI you mean AAZ and not ALH (the M being Mechanical vs. Electronic)?

I drove a '82 diesel DOKA about 25 years ago. I presume that's the 1.6 NA. It was too slow, would be a rolling obstruction/target on highways in RI. Do you think the 1.6 TD could hold it's own at 65-70 under good driving conditions on a generally flat highway? (Highest 'peak' in RI is ~350ft above sea level).

I've seen some T4s as well, but I am not enamored. Functionally the same except the treasure chest. Plusses are airbags, 2.5l TDI. Minuses - appears to me like a Vanagon chop-job with an aftermarket bed.

Thanks again for your reply (and in anticipation of another).
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Couple things here.... what exactly are you planning to use it for? Because I would consider ANY T3 to be more of a hobby/fun vehicle, and to that end, I'd not be super concerned about how fast it can go, especially one of the heavier AWD versions, which I have owned. And even with the 95hp 2.1L waterboxer, the only choice we had here, it was no rocket ship... and it was just a regular 7-passenger van. I can only imagine that the same box with the 65hp JX would be only marginally better than the 48hp NA 1.6L, which I also own.

This is why engine swaps are so common.

The AAZ is not, nor ever was, a TDI. TDI = Turbo Direct Injection. The AAZ is not a direct injected engine. It is a prechamber diesel, like the 1.6L engines. It has a turbo, but no intercooler, and is probably only giving the engine about 10hp more than it would have without a turbo, had VAG sold such an engine.

The main draw the AAZ has is that just like the factory diesels used in the T3s, it is all mechanical, no electronics of any kind (technically the AAZ does have altitude compensation, like the very late 1.6L engines in the A2 Jettas sold here, but it is not a processor driven device, just an altitude aneroid that modifies injection timing slightly).

An M-TDI is a TDI engine, in this case we'd be talking about an early one like a 1Z or AHU, that has been converted (pump change) to be mechanical only. It is still direct injected, still uses the same injectors, same lower pump body, but the top of the pump has been changed to the old fashioned type that attaches to the cable just like the prechamber diesels. But again, part of the TDI's power, which is only 15hp more than the AAZ, is the fact that it can run a more aggressive boost and fueling map because it has superior combustion characteristics and an intercooler. A direct injected diesel is MUCH better at turning fuel into motive power, whereas prechamber diesels tend to waste much of that energy as heat in the cylinder head.

I have been around T3s (Vanagons) since they've been around just about, and I see and follow a lot of these non-passenger or camper versions that have been imported and one rule always holds true: you get what you pay for. Which is why I go back to the original question of what you are wanting to use it for. If it was 1990 and you lived in Sweden, then a syncro turbodiesel doka would be a great purchase to use on your property, run into town, etc. But in 2018, in the US of A, those same tasks would likely be better suited to a five year old F150.

People can spend obscene amounts of money on Vanagons.... I am a member of several groups, and it is quite nuts. I've seen some TDI converted syncro Westy vans with some other upgrades sell for $45k. You can go down to your Mercedes-Benz dealer and buy a 4WD Sprinter, brand spanking new, for not much more than that.

You are right in that a lot of the Euro imported ones, especially the trucks, are just quick and dirty reconditioning and maybe a fresh coat of paint. But looking underneath them you'll see they were used for what they were intended to be used for.... often for 20 years... then sat somewhere for five more, before being "discovered" and thrown in a cargo container and shipped here.

There are certainly some really nice ones out there, though. If I had kept all the Vanagons I have ever owned, I'd be sitting on a giant fortune right now. :eek:
 

coalminer16

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Location
Central Wisconsin
TDI
Golf 2004
I took a 1.6 NA out of my rabbit and put an AAZ in there. Fun for what was in the car but MPG - it does the worst out of all my VW diesels. It gets more of an average of 38-41. Parts can be harder to find for the aaz specific items (head gaskets, turbo's) but if you go across boarders (import fees) they can still be found. Even timing belts are a little harder since it wasn't in this country. I don't regret putting it in the car. I would if I had the money put a M-tdi in I think now.

The tdi is a quieter engine since. The pre-chamber takes on a lot of the diesel noise vs the cup in the piston takes the noise on the TDI.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Volkswagen dealers in the USA have never had any issue getting AAZ parts, and wholesalers like Worldpac also have everything. The US and Canadian warehousing system is shared, not really a big deal. At least the few things I have had to get for them over the years has never been a problem.

Now in recent years, the whole CAR has been obsoleted, so most everything A3/B4 related is getting harder to come across, but I would not single out the AAZ specific bits as any better or worse in that regard.

Remember too lots of VAG industrial and marine engines were also using many of the same parts.

Edit: I just checked, Worldpac has SIX 2-hole AAZ head gaskets in the warehouse in Texas. If I needed one now at 2pm, I'd have it in my hand tomorrow morning before 10am with nothing more than a couple mouse clicks.
 
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RI_TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2001
Location
Providence RI
TDI
'05 B5.5v, '89 DOKA Syncro
To the question of intended use / value for money: I know the best thing I could do to satisfy all but 2 of the criteria would be to buy a beater - F150 or Tacoma. I want a vehicle that:

  • is sound
  • is fun to drive
  • has a bed with decent spatial and weight capacity
  • is mostly used within a 20 mile radius of home (that's almost all of RI!)
  • can be operated on any road (hence the velocity concern - not to be confused with power/acceleration concern)
  • can tow my 16' skiff
  • diesel - can run on DOT-rated B100 in summer
  • 4WD - for those steep launch ramps and winter
  • presents little chance of meeting 'myself' on the road
I loved my '70 Typ 265, and my wife would love for me to have one again. This is as close as I can get to meet all of the above. And I am jonesing to have a VWAG diesel back in the fleet. If I find the right one, the next transaction on that vehicle after I buy it will be made by my executor.

Thank you for your thoughtful responses so far.
 

coalminer16

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Location
Central Wisconsin
TDI
Golf 2004
Interesting on the USA being able to get the parts. Honestly don't have a lot of experience with the actual dealers. Always lived to far away (hour to 2 hour away) and when I do go they have almost nothing else I want for the rabbits that I can't find easier online. And the parts people I have dealt with weren't overly helpful in looking up items either. But that seems to be the truth whether at John Deere, Honda or any other place. Had to go online for a momentary on off on switch as no auto store could even order. Had to go someplace other then the dealer for Honda oil once as they did stock any -ever.

Back to what you are looking for. Get r
The used USA truck if you are to use.

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