New 2015 Passat With Fender Audio

mejpassat

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2015 Passat TDi (NOS), 2014 passat TDI (Buy back), 2001 Tdi Golf (Gifted to Son)
I own two (2013 Passat SEL and 2015 Passat SEL), and also actively work in the pro audio world. It's tubby, but I am not convinced that that is due to the components as compared to a by-design voicing/eq problem. It's not like a car trunk is a well designed, tuned, or ported enclosure . . . As I said, one day I'll get bored and profile it with SMAART, but short of that, everything else is a variation on a guess . . . And since we all hear things a bit differently, I was curious . . . and to your initial question, the 258 vs. 350 in the CJ7 depends on your expectations and needs. For many, it may accomplish nothing other than getting to the scene of the rollover accident faster . . . or may be imperceptible to those with a light foot . . . there is no single, obvious answer, so I ask . . .

And you may be right and have a problem or defect. I feel I have a pretty critical ear, and while it isn't stellar, I really don't feel that mine are that bad (and I can typically tune systems pretty close by ear . . . but also have analysis tools . . .).

I do recall someone speculating (not sure if it was ever proven) that on his car, speakers had been installed with the polarity inverted, thus resulting in vague imaging . . . something to consider as well . . .
Well said, my thoughts were to some day swap speakers out for some Alpine matching speakers.
In general use I find the Fender setup to be acceptable....but then again, I don't have it blasting either.
 

mirage2521

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I agree the speakers are crap. Since speakers are the last link in the chain and what the sound comes out of, I consider them to be of significant importance-- certainly of more importantance than the head unit, although in a well-designed application they would be very complimentary to each other. That being said, I listen in the midrange, in fact. my hf hearing peters out at around 7khz and I view bass as needed, but I really don't give it a fraction of the importance that I give the mid range. Hence, my puzzlement at you and your 'tech's' zeroing in on the sub.
OTOH, if you listen to Taiko Drums, then I get your thinking.
The point of doing so is to remove the lows from the equation. The addition of a separately controlled sub allow us to lower the bass on the head unit to near zero and use those controls to control the mids and the highs and use the separate sub controller to control the lows. That way there is far less low freq signal being sent to the Fender speakers. Its simply step one.

There is are a lot of lows coming out of the door speakers in my car with the bass turned up enough to balance the sub. Adding the self-contained, separately controlled sub mean the Fender amp n longer has to try to push the sub and the mids with the same signals.

Keep in mind, I am no car audio expert but I have spent 200 nights in a holiday Inn Express in the last 12 months.
 

mirage2521

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Perhaps the first step would be to carry a demo CD to the Dealership and ask to play it in another 15 SEL for comparison.

BTW, I emailed Dynaudio and inquired if the new speakers for the B8 would be a swap for the door speakers in the B7. If they respond and indicate that would be something that could work, I'll post their response.

That is most definitely on my agenda as soon as I get home from this business trip.
 

mirage2521

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I own two (2013 Passat SEL and 2015 Passat SEL), and also actively work in the pro audio world. It's tubby, but I am not convinced that that is due to the components as compared to a by-design voicing/eq problem. It's not like a car trunk is a well designed, tuned, or ported enclosure . . . As I said, one day I'll get bored and profile it with SMAART, but short of that, everything else is a variation on a guess . . . And since we all hear things a bit differently, I was curious . . . and to your initial question, the 258 vs. 350 in the CJ7 depends on your expectations and needs. For many, it may accomplish nothing other than getting to the scene of the rollover accident faster . . . or may be imperceptible to those with a light foot . . . there is no single, obvious answer, so I ask . . .

And you may be right and have a problem or defect. I feel I have a pretty critical ear, and while it isn't stellar, I really don't feel that mine are that bad (and I can typically tune systems pretty close by ear . . . but also have analysis tools . . .).

I do recall someone speculating (not sure if it was ever proven) that on his car, speakers had been installed with the polarity inverted, thus resulting in vague imaging . . . something to consider as well . . .
Well it seems to me that you are way more technically versed in this subject than I am. I am simply going by the seat of my pants and past audio experiences. Where are you putting your EQ setting as a baseline. Is your fade control centered? Are there any other volume/clarity affecting settings that I have not found. I have yet to see any manuals on this gear.

BTW "first to the scene of the rollover" LOL...pretty funny
 

Mixchump

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...(snip)... I am simply going by the seat of my pants and past audio experiences. Where are you putting your EQ setting as a baseline. Is your fade control centered? Are there any other volume/clarity affecting settings that I have not found. I have yet to see any manuals on this gear...(snip)...
I think your instincts are bang on, and your comments echo several friends of mine that actually backed away from NMS Passats because the audio system was so bad.

My general feeling about this is that there is no excuse or rationale for bad sound in a modern day vehicle. If a customer wants to upgrade a system and make it more powerful, fine, but the base-level audio system should at least sound good at normal listening levels.

My only possible explanation is that they've somehow done a whole ton of Digital Signal Processing programmed into the factory head unit that is intended to make the bluetooth phone capabilities work without feedback, predictably and able to null out background noise, etc. It's the only possible explanation for how terrible it sounds.

I suspect that the factory speakers are probably decent, if given good quality signal. Poor driver design alone is not capable of the kind of $hyte that is coming out of these things.
 

tadawson

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Well it seems to me that you are way more technically versed in this subject than I am. I am simply going by the seat of my pants and past audio experiences. Where are you putting your EQ setting as a baseline. Is your fade control centered? Are there any other volume/clarity affecting settings that I have not found. I have yet to see any manuals on this gear.

BTW "first to the scene of the rollover" LOL...pretty funny
Hey, it's a Jeep CJ . . . :) :)

Balance in centered, high +2 increments (or +1 - I wish I could get 1-1/2 . . ) midrange at center, bass -1 . . . I was playing with it this AM running a CD of "Dreamboat Annie", and that gave me nice crisp sound on hi-hat, and good breath and definition in vocals. Acoustic guitars were nicely balanced, and kick drum, while not as solid as I prefer, was pretty decent. Any more on the bass control and it feels like it piles up around 400Hz or so (which is my main objection) muddying up bass and other lower pitched instruments. Imaging was pretty good, and I was probably hitting 90dB or so . . . not stupid loud, but not background volumes either.

No other controls I know of, but quality varies a lot between sources. Sat is very weak on highs, mp3 is fair, and no great love for Bluetooth . . . the HD radio isn't too bad (if you can deal with broadcast compression) . . . all in all, my ears tell me that a CD is the best . . .
 
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New Mickey

The user formerly known as mickey
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Utah
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I think it sounds great for a factory setup. The sub is more "boom" than "thump" but you can blame hip-hop culture for that. That's what car makers think we want.

-mickey
 

rustycat

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seattle
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2015 passat sel
Hey, it's a Jeep CJ . . . :) :)

Balance in centered, high +2 increments (or +1 - I wish I could get 1-1/2 . . ) midrange at center, bass -1 . . . I was playing with it this AM running a CD of "Dreamboat Annie", and that gave me nice crisp sound on hi-hat, and good breath and definition in vocals. Acoustic guitars were nicely balanced, and kick drum, while not as solid as I prefer, was pretty decent. Any more on the bass control and it feels like it piles up around 400Hz or so (which is my main objection) muddying up bass and other lower pitched instruments. Imaging was pretty good, and I was probably hitting 90dB or so . . . not stupid loud, but not background volumes either.

No other controls I know of, but quality varies a lot between sources. Sat is very weak on highs, mp3 is fair, and no great love for Bluetooth . . . the HD radio isn't too bad (if you can deal with broadcast compression) . . . all in all, my ears tell me that a CD is the best . . .
Yeah, CD is the best, an FM can be as good, if the station isn't compressing too much (which is rare).
 

tc1uscg

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My biggest complaint is the "premium" Fender audio system. What an incredible disappointment. Has anyone had any luck making improvements on this thing? On my Jettas I replaced the OEM speakers with some Alpines and added a small powered sub woofer and the systems produce sound quality far superior to this Fender. Anyone tried anything short of ripping the whole thing out and replacing it?

I've complained about my Fender system since day one. Sound is so/so. Not as defined as I had hoped. I had a 2001 Chrysler LHS that had a Infinity sound system that blows this thing away. Don't get me started on the worthless nav system and the slow slow back up camera system. My only standard to compare is my 2011 Town&Country. granted the minivan only has 8 speakers, it sounds pretty good inside the loaf of bread and I just expected my 1800 bucks would have gotten me something to write home about. Pressing a button to change the stations confuses it sometime (slow to react). It's the model that can't get any "fixes" and starting the car, pressing the power button to turn it on and getting "system starting" splash screen is beyond frustrating, so needless to say, after this sep, I'm not going to miss these problems. Not getting the fix. That's when we are scheduled to turn it in for the buy back.
 
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tc1uscg

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Yeah, CD is the best, an FM can be as good, if the station isn't compressing too much (which is rare).

What I have found is MP3's played off it's hard drive sound better then a music loaded dvd. I've also noticed this in my minivan which has a hard drive (Chrysler). But everyone's hearing might be attuned to certain frequencies levels then others. I spent many years working with Morse Code. Use to have my ears checked every year (job requirement). Seemed I was "bass starved" and would crank the bass higher then most would when I would listen to music. What sounds good to one, sounds like it's from inside a tin can to to others. :D
 

Mixchump

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Yes, of course the bottom end is way too tubby with this system, but even with some radical eq corrections, the QUALITY of the audio coming out of these head units is atrocious.

Does anyone on this thread have a Jetta / Golf with the factory stereo, up to around model year 2004 or 2005?

That system sounded fantastic. Absolutely top notch. I'm not blasting loud music, I just want it to sound good when I listen to music. I honestly don't understand what's so hard about making audio gear sound good. I was so shocked when I took delivery of my 2012 Passat that I took it back to the dealer several times, absolutely convinced that they had wired the system backwards from the crossovers.

Not to mention the fact that the L-R signals were reversed on the Aux Input (all you early Van Halen fans know what I'm talkin' aboot!)
 

tadawson

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Define what 'quality' means to you . . . To me, you have frequency response, impulse response, distortion and level, and that pretty much defines it . . . .
 

rustycat

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Define what 'quality' means to you . . . To me, you have frequency response, impulse response, distortion and level, and that pretty much defines it . . . .
Well......it's like Art. you know it when you hear it.
 

tadawson

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To an extent, but technology and science is capable of measuring audio, unlike art . . . and I have known folks that though absolute crap sounded good (typically fans of (c)Rap, ironically . . .), so while I respect your opinion, you did duck the question! We know what we like and don't like, and most can describe why that is . . .
 

rustycat

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To an extent, but technology and science is capable of measuring audio, unlike art . . . and I have known folks that though absolute crap sounded good (typically fans of (c)Rap, ironically . . .), so while I respect your opinion, you did duck the question! We know what we like and don't like, and most can describe why that is . . .
Not wanting to really get into such a complex area of discussion (as you said in your comment) "To me, you have frequency response, impulse response, distortion, and level, and that pretty much defines it" works for me.

I'd simply say, yeah, that pretty much covers it. The real question is how do you recreate a sonically accurate reproduction of the artist and the mastering engineer's efforts.
Tube based headunits would probably be the best and cheapest to build, but that isn't going to happen. And, even though they had record players for cars in the 60's, I don't see that happening either.....
 

tadawson

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But, ironically, the appeal of both tubes and vinyl are theie *inaccuracies*, which many find pleasing. To me, to create the "sonically accurate reproduction" means as few variances from perfectly flat response as possible . . . *that* will be what was mastered (well, assuming no colorations in the studio gear, and studio monitors are typically build for accuracy . . . ). That, or build a duplucate studio, and sit in exactly the same spot as the mastering engineer . . . Ultimately, (setting personal preference aside), accuracy is not unique to any particular technology. Heck, most of the gripes about CD's when they came out were that they were too accurate! Folks though they were 'too bright and brittle' when in reality, they were just (finally) hearing what had been on the master tapes all along, and which prior technologies were losing . . .

My goal is always a baseline system as accurate as possible, and *then* the user/owner can tune for taste. If the colorations are inherent inthe design instead, you can't go back the other way . . .
 

rustycat

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But, ironically, the appeal of both tubes and vinyl are theie *inaccuracies*, which many find pleasing. To me, to create the "sonically accurate reproduction" means as few variances from perfectly flat response as possible . . . *that* will be what was mastered (well, assuming no colorations in the studio gear, and studio monitors are typically build for accuracy . . . ). That, or build a duplucate studio, and sit in exactly the same spot as the mastering enginee /r . . . Ultimately, (setting personal preference aside), accuracy is not unique to any particular technology. Heck, most of the gripes about CD's when they came out were that they were too accurate! Folks though they were 'too bright and brittle' when in reality, they were just (finally) hearing what had been on the master tapes all along, and which prior technologies were losing . . .

My goal is always a baseline system as accurate as possible, and *then* the user/owner can tune for taste. If the colorations are inherent inthe design instead, you can't go back the other way . . .
Fair enough. Guess you aren't "frending" Seniors Fletcher/Munson. CDs were terribly compromised, esp. in the early years.
 

Mixchump

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Just to be clear here, I'm talking about stuff that is ABSOLUTELY measurable. Sometime, if I have an evening off, I'll swing by my pal's studio, who happens to own an AudioPrecision Porta1Plus, and run some sweeps.

To me, there's at least an octave missing at the top, and in the time domain, I'm positive that the slew rate of the entire system is WAY slower than it should be, and depending on how an AP reports the distortion measurement when seeing digital signal degradation similar to comparing WAV to MP3, you'll see that too.

The sonic difference between an old 741 opamp and a 90's Burr Brown 2604 opamp is night and day ('awful' compared to 'pretty good for an opamp'), and that's easily measurable. I'm not interested in Audiophile-speak, just real cold, hard science.

If you can hear the difference between an SACD (DSD at 2.8MHz) compared to an MP3 (at 128mpbs), that's how radical it sounds to me, when comparing our 2003 Jetta to the 2015 Passat.

Complete and total $hite...
 

thundershorts

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auto audio is just not for serious listening. Alpine actually used burr brown dac's in one of their top radios and it was decent, well above the fender system. Loud, distortion is not good sound. Very few people here know what slew rate means...
 

tadawson

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Just to be clear here, I'm talking about stuff that is ABSOLUTELY measurable. Sometime, if I have an evening off, I'll swing by my pal's studio, who happens to own an AudioPrecision Porta1Plus, and run some sweeps.

To me, there's at least an octave missing at the top, and in the time domain, I'm positive that the slew rate of the entire system is WAY slower than it should be, and depending on how an AP reports the distortion measurement when seeing digital signal degradation similar to comparing WAV to MP3, you'll see that too.

The sonic difference between an old 741 opamp and a 90's Burr Brown 2604 opamp is night and day ('awful' compared to 'pretty good for an opamp'), and that's easily measurable. I'm not interested in Audiophile-speak, just real cold, hard science.

If you can hear the difference between an SACD (DSD at 2.8MHz) compared to an MP3 (at 128mpbs), that's how radical it sounds to me, when comparing our 2003 Jetta to the 2015 Passat.

Complete and total $hite...
That's fair! I have been planning to sweep mine with SMAART, but need to fab a cable to get test signal into it, so have not really been rushing. My 'seat of the pants' reaction, though, is that it is still better than most automotive systems I have heard (endured?). For some reason, car companies seem almost obsessed with putting bad audio in cars . . .
 

shuck

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Jan 10, 2017
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Sioux Falls, SD
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2015 Passat TDI SEL
I'm not an audiophile, but I do enjoy a nice sounding system. I recently got a Passat TDI SEL with the Fender system and was also extremely unimpressed at first. There was bass cutout and a number of other perceptible nuisances in the sound quality. So, on a hunch, I turned off the speed adjustment for the volume. This made all the difference in the world. I recommend anyone who is concerned with level sound reproduction turn off this feature and use the steering wheel controls to manually adjust your volume for speed. Once I did this, I'm VERY happy with the Fender system's sound quality for a stock system. The interface response, on the other hand...
 

1alfie

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Ontario
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2015 Passat Highline
Next to the incredible fuel economy, the Fender system in my 2015 Passat is my favorite feature of the car. I must admit that on listening to the system for the first time, I was not impressed with Sirius Satellite Radio sound quality, however, when I used the bluetooth feature and listened to downloaded music via my phone, it took the sound quality to a whole new level. To my ears, the sound is exactly as billed from VW and Fender.
 

kwiatekch

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Dec 24, 2015
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Chicago
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2012 Jetta 2.0TDI
I Have a better solution !!!

Next to the incredible fuel economy, the Fender system in my 2015 Passat is my favorite feature of the car. I must admit that on listening to the system for the first time, I was not impressed with Sirius Satellite Radio sound quality, however, when I used the bluetooth feature and listened to downloaded music via my phone, it took the sound quality to a whole new level. To my ears, the sound is exactly as billed from VW and Fender.
I miss my 2012 premium fender sound system sooo much :( indeed in 15 passat/fender I get better soun d quality with bluetooth vs radio but still it is nothing like quality i had in my jetta so far as I have done my research what I need is quality DSP and as I will slowly start paring out my passat ill look into the kind of equipement I need to make it work and in the end post a you project on here lol
 

deadlyaztec

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Feb 26, 2019
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New Branfauls
TDI
2015 Passat
I miss my 2012 premium fender sound system sooo much :( indeed in 15 passat/fender I get better soun d quality with bluetooth vs radio but still it is nothing like quality i had in my jetta so far as I have done my research what I need is quality DSP and as I will slowly start paring out my passat ill look into the kind of equipement I need to make it work and in the end post a you project on here lol

Keep me posted. I also got a 15 with a fender and it’s a bit muddy. It clear but the bottom end no good lol.

Also does anymore know the ohms rating on those drivers? Also I am wondering if the dynaudios that are all over eBay will it in these?!?!?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

thundershorts

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If someone was designing a car for decent listening, interior would be soft materials. Amps would be running class A. It would get to the obsurd level. The best sound system I ever heard was a Mark Levenson system: ml-1 preamp, six 25w class A amps, 24" Hartley subs, 2 pairs Quad electrostatics for midrange, Decca ribbon tweeters for the high end, all wired with sterling silver speaker wire. Wasn't particularily loud but impressive soundstage. Car listening is a compromise, don't expect perfection cause you won't find it in your car.
 
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