Group V esther base synthetic oil.

I have been doing some research and it seems that Redline is the only manufacturer of a group V synthetic in 5W-30 with a 504.00-507.00 classification. Are there any other manufacturers that use a group V base other than Redline for retail users? I can't find any. Amsoil and Some Mobil 1's are group lV's with esther additives and most the rest are hydrocracked group lll's with additives. I am going to use the Redline on my 15 TDI's I just bought unless someone has a reason not to.

https://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=142&pcid=21

https://www.redlineoil.com/content/files/tech/Motor Oil PDS 5-13.pdf

It says recommended for and suitable not that it actually has the rating.

You're right. Sneaky. I emailed them and asked about specific VW approval.

Why do you think Redline Group V Ester based oils will perform better in your new car than PAO's or group III hydrocracked oil?
Do you have any documentation that says anything to the effect that VW approved 507.00 oils have lead to premature engine wear or failure and that a Group V ester is the cat's ass for engine wear and longevity? Just Redline propaganda? I'm sure it will perform well but is it better? Red colored boutique oil.

I have been in and around racing all my life. Every engine builder I know uses either Redline, Penn or Mobil 1 after break in. I have read about the properties of Esters versus PAO's and they intrigue me. Why should you care if I'm willing to spend 50% more for oil?

Excellent C3 oil and perfect noack but the price in my country is .... ugh !

http://www.trade-wind.gr/car/lubric...lineoil-com-product-aspx-pid-144-pcid-21.html

Man what will we do here with no more new diesels being sold and thus no more new spec changes in oil? LOL. Good thing we have an almost endless appetite for oil discussions.

I heard back from Red Line. Recommended but not approved. Think I will stick with the factory fill or possibly the M1. I may try the Red Line 5W-20 in the wife's Dodge minivan that has used the MS-6395 spec dino oil since new. See if I see/feel any changes and move the drain interval to when the computer on the van says to change it. I have been doing it every 5k and the reminder hasn't come on once. 5K IMO is long enough on a group ll oil for me.
Didn't mean to start a pissing match. Just wanted some feedback Red Line oils performance in a passenger car in the real world.

Oil topics generally lead to lots of discussion. There are many here already.

sloinker said:

I may try the Red Line 5W-20 in the wife's Dodge minivan that has used the MS-6395 spec dino oil since new. See if I see/feel any changes and move the drain interval to when the computer on the van says to change it.world.

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Forgive me for my input but I don't think you will"see/feel" anything and there are far less expensive high quality oils to extend your OCI. M1 for example.

Not sure what base stocks Amsoil uses in their European Car Forumla, but I do know that it is specifically APPROVED BY VOLKSWAGEN for applications requiring 507.00.

-mickey

ALL motor oils, regardless of manufacturer, will list a few "approvals" and a lot of "meets or exceeds the requirements of." That is standard. Nobody goes to every car manufacturer and gets "approval" for ever application.

However, no manufacturer requires oils that have their "approval." The oil only has to meet their requirements. The law (in the U.S.) backs that up.

I think it's idiotic to argue about "approval" vs. "we say so", but the performance of base stocks is another matter.

Does VW 507.00 require Group V base stocks? Not to my knowledge. Your owner's manual says "synthetic", and that's a very nebulous term.

Bottom line: If it says 507.00 "approved" or "meets the requirements of 507.00" it's the right choice. Stop worrying about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. NO OIL MANUFACTURER IS GOING TO LIE TO YOU. They have no reason to do so, and the potential downside is enormous.

In the case of 507.00 we're talking about protecting emissions related equipment....in VOLKSWAGEN DIESELS, no less. Can you imagine any oil manufacturer daring to lie about THAT standard? In this political climate? It's not surprising at all that Amsoil sought, and obtained, specific VW APPROVAL for an oil to use in Common Rail TDIs. Nobody, but NOBODY is going risk getting pulled into that swamp. They're going to cover their a$$es and put the ball in VW's court.

If it says 507.00 it's good. Absolutely.

-mickey

Read post number 8. He contacted the company and they said it is not approved for 507. Everyone can make their own choices but VW wants you to use an approved 507 oil. Very little to nothing to be gained from using this oil over a real 507 approved oil at $8 vs $13.

Lightflyer1 said:

Read post number 8. He contacted the company and they said it is not approved for 507. Everyone can make their own choices but VW wants you to use an approved 507 oil. Very little to nothing to be gained from using this oil over a real 507 approved oil at $8 vs $13.

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If it meets the requirements of 507.00 then it's fine. In the U.S. at least. The Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act says so. If VW were to require VW oil then VW would have to provide it free of charge for the life of the warranty.

VW does NOT require "approved" oil. They "recommend" it. Obviously. Why wouldn't they?

Use Amsoil if you're worried about it, but Redline is just fine and dandy. Won't affect your warranty and won't harm your emissions equipment.

Of course, if you de-smog your CR TDI then 507.00 no longer applies. The stuff it's supposed to protect is no longer there. Right? 507.00 doesn't have more "stuff" in it. It has LESS "stuff" added, in order to protect the emissions equipment. So what does that "stuff" do? Is it actually lesser oil, in terms of protecting your engine? I don't know, but it's worth asking. So if you have gotten rid of the offending smog bits is 507.00 really the best choice?

I just mention that so I can eat popcorn and watch the argument. I'm going to use European Car Formula as long I own the car, even if the smoggy bits do happen to fall out somewhere for some mysterious reason......

-mickey

Meet : Just covers exactly the min. req. ... Nothing more . 5 out of 10 , literally base grade .

Exceed: Passes the test but we not know how easy . 6+ out of 10 .
How much + , unknown .

Recommended : This is what manufacturers offer . Easy choice and properly pass the tests .7+ out of 10 . How much + , unknown .

Approved :The sneaky one . Approved can be the 5/10 or the 10/10 . Our choice what we ll use if not going by the book .

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=5296837#post5296837

(#33 post) For persons that worry too much .

I have tdi with dpf and NOT using 507 . 505/505.01 is way better for protect engine so the 30s oils are outta question for me. 40s all the way up...

.... and the facts ! I did measure my DPF today after regeneration ...

https://postimg.org/image/m44mhaqid/

After 63k+ km (40k~ miles ) my DPF load with a non-507 is 2.572 g with max the 70 g as it says there . That s 3.9% ash load using any other oil (5w-40 the most and now i use 0w-40) than 507 spec .

Most of the 5w40 oils available here are low ash, and often carry other DPF-equipped diesel manufacturers specifications, so there is not likely to be any harm to the DPF anyway.

However, the main reason for the previous generations of VAG diesel's doing better with 5w40 vs. 5w30 is due to the high loads on the cams. The CR TDIs do not have that type of valvetrain, so there is probably nothing "gained" with a 5w40 on them but certainly nothing "hurt" I would not think.

Indeed , the valve train is totally different at pre-CR engines so the 505.01 is only way to survive a few more hundred miles the engine . However ,the 40 oil ( esp. nice synthetics blends ) help much more the longevity of a diesel than these "new-gen-high-tech-super-duper-OP-bla bla" 30 oils , or i should say ... 20?? Oh no wait there are ... 16 now !!

VwPassion said:

Indeed , the valve train is totally different at pre-CR engines so the 505.01 is only way to survive a few more hundred miles the engine . However ,the 40 oil ( esp. nice synthetics blends ) help much more the longevity of a diesel than these "new-gen-high-tech-super-duper-OP-bla bla" 30 oils , or i should say ... 20?? Oh no wait there are ... 16 now !!

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Writing bull**** don't count when it comes to learning. I learned that many years ago by observation.

As my public school principle who was a master of corporal punishment would say, quit acting like a jackass. When the parents would show up and ask how come you called my son a jackass, he would respond that he is not a jackass but was acting like one.

James & Son said:

Writing bull**** don't count when it comes to learning. I learned that many years ago by observation.

As my public school principle who was a master of corporal punishment would say, quit acting like a jackass. When the parents would show up and ask how come you called my son a jackass, he would respond that he is not a jackass but was acting like one.

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I suppose you need an answer , so here you are....
"Writing bull**** don't count when it comes to learning. I learned that many years ago by observation.

As my public school principle who was a master of corporal punishment would say, quit acting like a jackass. When the parents would show up and ask how come you called my son a jackass, he would respond that he is not a jackass but was acting like one."

The 507 spec is very much at the thick end of 30w oils. The only reason I don't use 507 any more is because I no longer need super low ash oil, and rotella and delo 5w40 are cheaper. The fact that they are both group III oils doesn't bother me one bit.

507 spec is not needed at all from my view and experience on a tdi with dpf fitted . Not say that the VW and the manual are wrong . The spec itself is not working for engine health but for the emissions .Now according to manual : https://postimg.org/image/6iqpbaqb3/ ,for use 504/507 oil spec ,need and the correct quality of fuel ,EN 590 in our case for diesel (The quality of fuels can vary greatly between individual markets and this must be taken into account when selecting the correct engine oil.
The use of engine oils compliant with the VW 504 00 und VW 507 00 specifications requires a fuel quality compliant with EN 228 (petrol) and
EN 590 (diesel). Engine oils compliant with VW 504 00 und VW 507 00 are therefore unsuitable for use in a large number of markets.). Wiki says that EN590 diesel should have 51 at least cetane number , 10 mg/kg sulfur and 0.01%(m/m) ash content .For winter diesel have some other specs too .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_590
In short, we must stop fooling ourselves with the "godsend" 507 spec...


Edit: if some didn't got it yet , no use of EN590 fuel is equal to no need of 507 spec , having or not a DPF fitted.....

So where are all the 507 related engine failures? I haven't heard of a single one.

In my country (Greece) are a ton of these failures .From pistons to "smokers" with 1l per 2k km oil consumption . If search some Greek forums (not only but i can speak only for what i do know for good, although I've saw other forums too) , you ll see a lot . Generally speaking , 507 spec it accelerate the possible failure and the worn of engine . This spec is for emissions only good and this is not my word ,i not have a lab . I do prefer to get a perfect full synthetic or ester oil w/o 507 spec , rather searching the 507 spec which is an "old" spec right now . If dealers told you that VW policy enforce at official services to get the "new" 0w-20 oil ,claiming that have backwards compatibility,will you use it ? If you going by the book and "obey" at manufacturer's "commands" ,you will use but with what price? The engine's health itself. Can you see my point now?

VwPassion said:

In my country (Greece) Can you see my point now?

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Well, You and your Greek buddies have seen failures that we have not seen here in North America using 507 spec oil in CR engines and I am not about to learn Greek or use Google translator to read your Greek forums. Also, my owner's manual does not tell me to use 0W20 oil if it did I probably would. As we say here in the States "It's all Greek to me" so NO! I do not see your point now.

MichaelB said:

Well, You and your Greek buddies have seen failures that we have not seen here in North America using 507 spec oil in CR engines and I am not about to learn Greek or use Google translator to read your Greek forums. Also, my owner's manual does not tell me to use 0W20 oil if it did I probably would. As we say here in the States "It's all Greek to me" so NO! I do not see your point now.

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A) Not seen is not equal to not exist .
B) 507 it does accelerate worn of engine even w/o catastrophic failure,its for emissions spec and not for longevity .
C)The older manuals didn't say anything for 507 spec but dealers did enforced it so long,threatening people with 505/505.01 that guarantee will cease , and claiming backwards compatibility which is not actually exist .
That was a fast Greek lesson . You are welcome.

There must be a lot of crap fuel in Greece if 507 oils are causing problems. If people aren't using ultra low sulfur diesel, then I could see problems occurring.

VwPassion said:

A) Not seen is not equal to not exist .
B) 507 it does accelerate worn of engine even w/o catastrophic failure,its for emissions spec and not for longevity .
C)The older manuals didn't say anything for 507 spec but dealers did enforced it so long,threatening people with 505/505.01 that guarantee will cease , and claiming backwards compatibility which is not actually exist .
That was a fast Greek lesson . You are welcome.

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We are not talking about the older VW TDI's i.e ALH or PD etc. we are talking about 2009+ CR engines spect for 507.00 and we do not see premature wear or failure. Forget about backwards compatable and you are talking about dealers in Greece? I rest my case you just ain't gettin it! And you are still talking Greek to me, your lesson was poor as you are a poor teacher.

MichaelB said:

We are not talking about the older VW TDI's i.e ALH or PD etc. we are talking about 2009+ CR engines spect for 507.00 and we do not see premature wear or failure. Forget about backwards compatable and you are talking about dealers in Greece? I rest my case you just ain't gettin it! And you are still talking Greek to me, your lesson was poor as you are a poor teacher.

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Again the "not see" is not equal to "not exist" ,not like repeat myself .I do talk for '09+ CR engines too , the 507 spec is mainly for these engines although the dealers ( not only from Greece,i can have examples from India forums,Australian forums etc etc) "want" to use it backwards . And yes, i do talking Greek for you but that doesn't mean that the teacher is poor at his effort ,it means that the student ears always listen Greek around ...

VwPassion said:

Again the "not see" is not equal to "not exist" ,not like repeat myself .I do talk for '09+ CR engines too , the 507 spec is mainly for these engines although the dealers ( not only from Greece,i can have examples from India forums,Australian forums etc etc) "want" to use it backwards . And yes, i do talking Greek for you but that doesn't mean that the teacher is poor at his effort ,it means that the student ears always listen Greek around ...

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Here is what you do not see, no one here said to or want to use it backward and that is what you fail to see. Stop with the Greek, Indians, and Australians that want to. I also heard everything you said. I listen well you obviously don't. 507.00 works extremely well within the engines that were spect for it. Nobody said anything to the contriary or even suggested that it be used in pre CR engines..