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General VW Discussion This is a place for General VW topics (the company, not your vehicle). General topics about a specific vehicle should be posted in the General TDI Dicussion Forum sections for that vehicle platform. A4, A3 & B4, B5, etc.

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Old September 6th, 2017, 09:10   #16
tadawson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
Just to clarify, the trim level has nothing to do with sound insulation and materials. A "cheap" car is a cheap car, no matter the trim level. A white entry level $23k F150 has the exact same paint as a tarted up white $56k F150. It has the same door latches, window weatherstrips, hood hinges, frame coating, steering column U-joints, bumper supports, wheel bearings, etc. The NCS Jetta is no different. An S model has all the same bits under the skin as the most expensive SEL model. The main difference is the engine, which in the case of the NCS Jetta makes the S model a terrific value.

I think this is where so many consumers get duped. They assume that an expensive trim in a cheaper car makes it "just as good" as an entry level trim in a more expensive car, if the MSRP ends up being similar. That is absolutely NOT the case. There is no way a dolled up $28k diesel Cruze is twice the car as a $14k stripper Cruze. Aside from the diesel engine option, a base to mid level model Malibu is a nicer car.

So you can better gauge a caliber of a car if you at least look at the base price of that model, even if you have no desire or intention of purchasing something like that. It would seem most folks who feel slighted by the perceived quality of the NCS Jetta are the ones that bucked up for the TDI. They are usually the ones saying things like "if it were not for the engine I would have not bought this car", whereas the people that bought the S model feel like they stole the thing, as they paid about what Scion was asking for an IQ, and quite literally got TWICE the car instead.

I think that VoA did a reasonably good job in accessing the fact that Americans prefer larger, cheaper sedans when it comes to cars. I don't, but I am FAR from the average American consumer. Toyota figured this out. The Corolla and Camry we get, which we ONLY get in sedan form, are very much Americanized cars. Same for the Honda Accord (although there is a coupe version available, the wagons have long disappeared here). Same for the Civic.

The sales numbers do not lie, the NCS Jetta has enjoyed pretty good success here, Dieselgate nonsense aside. And its even more Americanized big brother, the NMS Passat, has had equal success, and has bested (by FAR) its predecessor's numbers. And the B6 Passat had the advantage of having both a wagon and AWD options (but no diesel for us).

So on one hand, Volkswagen was trying to go after sales to people who were perhaps not traditional buyers of their brand, but on the other hand may have alienated others who were traditional buyers, and are now are forced to choose from even fewer models that fit that bill. Given the fact that VoA's American lineup is abysmal compared to what is available in Europe, I'd say their pursuit to cater to larger cheaper sedan buyers has eclipsed everything else. And now that NO diesels of ANY kind are available here, that was the final nail in the coffin for a lot of us, myself included. There is zero chance I will buy a new Volkswagen ever again unless something drastic changes, which I doubt it will.
Having never spent any time really looking at an S in detail, I can't argue this with VW, but in other brands, leaving the sound insulation package (among other things) out to hit a price point is pretty common . . .
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Old September 6th, 2017, 10:01   #17
oilhammer
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I must have missed it then. And I've worked on just about every brand there is. Unless it is specifically part of some package, under the skin looks the same to me. You pull a door panel off of a base Focus and a top of the line Focus, you can't tell the difference.
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Old September 7th, 2017, 06:29   #18
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I know on Lawson's base F350, there was less insulation on the cab floor than a higher trim truck (his had the rubber floor coverings too). Higher trim vehicles can sometimes get better sound insulating glass too.

-J
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Maybe I should pay MYSELF to do bad work on my car!
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Old September 7th, 2017, 07:05   #19
oilhammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compu_85 View Post
I know on Lawson's base F350, there was less insulation on the cab floor than a higher trim truck (his had the rubber floor coverings too). Higher trim vehicles can sometimes get better sound insulating glass too.
-J
Yes, the difference between an XL and XLT. Lawson's truck was NOT a base truck, either. It had about $10k worth of options over the base F350. But the paint, springs, tailgate latch mechanism, pedal assembly, and a million other things are exactly the same no matter how little or how much you spend on trims. The stuff that matters.

Of course, the way Ford lists their trucks on the tag can lead you to think there are fewer "options" than there really are, because they usually start off with a higher than base starting point.

My '90 F350 for instance started with "F350 10,000 GVWR Supercab 4x2 XLT" as its "base". Well, that alone was multiple thousands of dollars more than the base F350 would have been. So it really only showed three options: Lariat trim package (which was mainly just the captain's chairs and center console), 7.3L V8 (the 7.5L was "standard" on that truck, but the true base F350 started with a 4.9L and the base 10k GVWR dually started with a 5.8L), and the automatic transmission. It was about $40k new in 1990. But you could have gone down to your Ford dealer and driven home with a BASE F350 for about $19k.


Besides, ALL the diesel F-trucks get more sound insulation than the gassers do, regardless of trim, for obvious reasons. And you can also get a carpet delete on the XLTs and Lariats. There are also a bunch of a'la carte options you can get on an XL that come lumped standard on an XLT. On the older trucks, things like a map light, tachometer, lower door trim with map pockets, locking rear axle, and even something as granular as a glove box light, were all individual stand alone options you could get on an XL truck. I know because that is how my dad ordered his '94. And what is funny is some of the stuff is REALLY cheap... the tach was $48.
Pickup trucks tend to be much more varied with this sort of thing, though. Cars are not generally as widely varied.
And I can give one example where the fancier cars DID get better paint: the Focus SVT. Those were pulled out of the assembly line in Mexico and put into a special area where an extra bit of color sanding was done, clear coat applied, then the car was slid back into the line for final assembly. But I think that is a pretty rare occurrence.
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Last edited by oilhammer; September 7th, 2017 at 07:32.
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Old September 8th, 2017, 11:50   #20
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Default Would undercoating help?

I am wondering if undercoating would help with the cabin noise level on my car. Just throwing it out there. Thanks.
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Old September 8th, 2017, 12:03   #21
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Probably wouldn't hurt, but not likely to make a huge difference. If you want to reduce road noise, pull the fender liners down and put Dynamat or similar under there against the body.
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Old September 8th, 2017, 15:38   #22
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If the issue is road noise, the biggest factor that you can make a difference with, is tires. Try playing with pressure a bit but it's not likely to matter much. Changing to a different brand or series can. The tough part is figuring out what to use.
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Old September 8th, 2017, 19:20   #23
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I've found Ecopias to be pretty quiet. Had them on my B4, now on my '99.5 Golf. I don't think another tire is going to make a big difference. If he had Kumhos or Sumitomos on the car, that would be another story.
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Old September 13th, 2017, 20:30   #24
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Default More pleased every tankful

My new 2015 Jetta S keeps getting better mileage every tankful. Using Fuelly my last tankful,mostly highway miles, averaged 43.4. Car is solid as a rock, handles well, is quick, and it's growing on me.
I have only 2400 miles and it just keeps getting better. The car is taking the bumps a wee bit softer.
Overall I am pleased with this blue fluid unit. I am sure they can tune this thing " on the edge" because of the blue fluid and cure some ills. I am looking forward to the car when it is broken in.
I put an LED light fixture in the trunk and it's so much more light. I also received some LED interior lights and am anxious to see if I like them.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 15:22   #25
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We have the "Trendline" version for both our Golfs ('16 hatchback and '17 wagon). That's the "S" in the US. Prior to those we had a Mk VI Golf hatch Highline, and a Mk V (2013) GSW Comfortline. There is *no* discernible difference in quality. The Highline had leather seats and built-in crappy nav. In reality our new Trendlines are arguably better equipped than the Comfortline, and pretty close to the highline. Both the Trendlines have everything I'd want in a VW: manual gearbox (I'd prefer a 6-sp but the 5-sp does the job), power everything, Apple CarPlay, cruise, leather multi-function steering wheel, and the best and most comfortable thing of all: CLOTH SEATS.

We honestly couldn't see the need to spend more. I do think the stock halogen lights are mediocre, so I put Ed's R-replica HIDs in mine and they are awesome. Wife is happy with the halogens in hers.
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