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General VW Discussion This is a place for General VW topics (the company, not your vehicle). General topics about a specific vehicle should be posted in the General TDI Dicussion Forum sections for that vehicle platform. A4, A3 & B4, B5, etc.

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Old September 4th, 2017, 18:45   #1
epssax
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Default Bought a 'new' 2015 Tdi seems very 'cheap'

I had an 09 jetta sel Tdi and a 2012 jetta wagon Tdi sel. Bought a new jetta tdi 2015 and I am pretty disappointed. The interior is cloth, door panels are plastic, steering wheel plastic and on and on.
But the worst feature is road and cabin noise, a choppy ride, and I feel every bump and imperfection from driving over less than very smooth road surfaces.
Question is: are all of the jetta s's like this? I like the idea of a new Tdi that could last for many years and miles and that is the good news. The bad news is this car will last many years and miles!
I've ridden in Passat tdi's that didn't seem to be this loud and bumpy and my previous tdi's weren't this noisey. Are the Jetta SEL's that much quieter? The only available SEL's in my area are used ones and they want more for one with 40-70 K miles than I paid for my new one.
I'd appreciate some advice. I really don't want to put 150k miles on this seemingly cheap made car. Even the doors sound loud and cheap when you slam them. Do they leave out sound insulation on these Jetta S'? thanks in advance.
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Old September 4th, 2017, 19:21   #2
IndigoBlueWagon
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The Jetta S is built to a price, and the interior looks it. However, I've driven a few of these and found the ride and handling to be pretty good. I'd check tire pressures. It may also break in after a few miles.

I enjoyed driving my daughter's 2013 2.slow Jetta. However, it was also very inexpensive to buy, which made it easy to overlook the interior materials.
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Old September 4th, 2017, 19:30   #3
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Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
The Jetta S is built to a price, and the interior looks it. However, I've driven a few of these and found the ride and handling to be pretty good. I'd check tire pressures. It may also break in after a few miles.

I enjoyed driving my daughter's 2013 2.slow Jetta. However, it was also very inexpensive to buy, which made it easy to overlook the interior materials.
I had a friend check tire pressure and it is spot on. Tires are Bridgestone Ecopias.
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Old September 4th, 2017, 19:36   #4
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Of course it's not going to be a luxury car-it's the most basic car that VW has here in the U.S. . My '16 Jetta S seemed fine,but that was the 1.4 TSI. If you wanted a little fancier and better handing,you could have opted for a Golf or GSW.
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Old September 4th, 2017, 20:01   #5
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I bought a NEW 2017 Jetta S for well under $15 K (1.4 TSI, 6 speed auto). Not a bad car and it's getting around 40 MPG (highway) and 29 MPG (around town) with the A/C on all the time. It's cheap, with many plastic parts, but it's good value for the price.

I needed a car that will be the all around go to car for grocery runs, doctor visits, etc, etc. There is so much traffic where we live that this car will be perfect for the never ending crawl when out and about. My wife loves it and that's all that counts.

When we get tired of it or get too old to drive it, then we will give it to one of the grandkids.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 03:17   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epssax View Post
I had a friend check tire pressure and it is spot on. Tires are Bridgestone Ecopias.
What's "spot on"? 32 PSI? 45 PSI? I'd run 34F/32R and see how that feels. If it's OK bump them up a couple pounds to improve steering response and FE.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 10:59   #7
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The NCS Jetta is intended to be a price point leader car. And it shows. If you buy the S version, you get a fantastic value. If you buy the TDI version, you get a cheap car with a very expensive engine.

That said, I do not think the NCS Jetta (especially the later ones with IRS and disk brakes all around) are a "bad" car. But unlike the Sportwagons and the 2011-and older Jetta sedans, they are no longer a Golf with a trunk. Some of the cheapening is pretty obvious, some is more hidden.

This really should come as no surprise, as the base price is on average about $5k less than it used to be. They weigh less, too.

FWIW, I have a customer that has a 2011 (first year) NCS Jetta, and even with over 300k miles being used as a taxi cab, it is still tight and solid. All of them seem to age well. So I would not knock the hard plastics and such, as those often wear better overall. And fewer parts means fewer things to break.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 11:07   #8
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The 09 sedan and the 12 Jetta wagon are pretty much the same car, as mentioned a '15 jetta sedan is a whole new platform.

If you had opted for a GSW, you'd have actually gone up in quality over the '12 wagon, but then again it'd be quite a few K over what you paid for the sedan.

BTW, who slams doors?
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Old September 5th, 2017, 11:34   #9
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The 09 sedan and the 12 Jetta wagon are pretty much the same car, as mentioned a '15 jetta sedan is a whole new platform.
'09 - 15 Jetta Sedans are all based on VW's PQ35 platform, even though the MKVI Sedan doesn't share any body panels with the '09-10 MKV Sedan. Other than the basic platform, about all they share is the TDI drivetrain. Even base engines are different: the '09-10 came with a 2.5L 5 cylinder engine, the '11-15 came with a 2.0L 4 cylinder.

And oilhammer is right, the MKVI with a 2.slow and a manual transmission is a simple car, and fun to drive. I especially like that it retained hydraulic steering, which has better feel than electric. And with 15" wheels the ride and handling feels similar to the MKIV cars. They 2.slow gets pretty good FE, too. A co-worker had one for a couple years and pretty consistently got 32-34 MPG without trying.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 13:18   #10
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The 1.4L turbo that replaced the 2.slo is better on fuel economy though (and has better power). But obviously it lacks the 2.slo's best attribute: simplicity.

Time will tell how the 1.4L holds up, but it is tough to beat the old engine. One cam, eight valves, no variable anything, no turbocharger, simple timing belt.

The only thing I do NOT like about the NCS' version of that engine is the smaller oil capacity. 3.7 liters. No idea why they nerfed the oil pan size, but they did. Does not seem to bother them any though.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 19:35   #11
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Default Platforms

Quote:
Originally Posted by 740GLE View Post
The 09 sedan and the 12 Jetta wagon are pretty much the same car, as mentioned a '15 jetta sedan is a whole new platform.

If you had opted for a GSW, you'd have actually gone up in quality over the '12 wagon, but then again it'd be quite a few K over what you paid for the sedan.

BTW, who slams doors?
I am confused. I hate to admit I don't know about the different platforms. So, is my rough riding, loud, noisey car the same as a 2015 Jetta SEL? Also, what Kind of platform is the Passat on? I drove several of them in TDI badges. Thanks.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 19:44   #12
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What's "spot on"? 32 PSI? 45 PSI? I'd run 34F/32R and see how that feels. If it's OK bump them up a couple pounds to improve steering response and FE.
I think all four tires were 32 or 34 psi. Friend said that was recommended inflation. Remember, I down sized and don't even have a small compressor or any shop equipment. That's what I get for getting old and having health issues.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 23:40   #13
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The "S" version of any VW mldel line is the low end, stripped, cheaped out, loss leader of that model. While the basic car is the same moving up to the SE and SEL, the features, materials, sound insulation, etc. improve a lot. The S is to offer a price to get you on the lot. The SE and SEL is what I think most actually buy . . . . You went cheap, you got cheap . . . simple cause and effect, nothing more . . .
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Old September 6th, 2017, 05:22   #14
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Just to clarify, the trim level has nothing to do with sound insulation and materials. A "cheap" car is a cheap car, no matter the trim level. A white entry level $23k F150 has the exact same paint as a tarted up white $56k F150. It has the same door latches, window weatherstrips, hood hinges, frame coating, steering column U-joints, bumper supports, wheel bearings, etc. The NCS Jetta is no different. An S model has all the same bits under the skin as the most expensive SEL model. The main difference is the engine, which in the case of the NCS Jetta makes the S model a terrific value.

I think this is where so many consumers get duped. They assume that an expensive trim in a cheaper car makes it "just as good" as an entry level trim in a more expensive car, if the MSRP ends up being similar. That is absolutely NOT the case. There is no way a dolled up $28k diesel Cruze is twice the car as a $14k stripper Cruze. Aside from the diesel engine option, a base to mid level model Malibu is a nicer car.

So you can better gauge a caliber of a car if you at least look at the base price of that model, even if you have no desire or intention of purchasing something like that. It would seem most folks who feel slighted by the perceived quality of the NCS Jetta are the ones that bucked up for the TDI. They are usually the ones saying things like "if it were not for the engine I would have not bought this car", whereas the people that bought the S model feel like they stole the thing, as they paid about what Scion was asking for an IQ, and quite literally got TWICE the car instead.

I think that VoA did a reasonably good job in accessing the fact that Americans prefer larger, cheaper sedans when it comes to cars. I don't, but I am FAR from the average American consumer. Toyota figured this out. The Corolla and Camry we get, which we ONLY get in sedan form, are very much Americanized cars. Same for the Honda Accord (although there is a coupe version available, the wagons have long disappeared here). Same for the Civic.

The sales numbers do not lie, the NCS Jetta has enjoyed pretty good success here, Dieselgate nonsense aside. And its even more Americanized big brother, the NMS Passat, has had equal success, and has bested (by FAR) its predecessor's numbers. And the B6 Passat had the advantage of having both a wagon and AWD options (but no diesel for us).

So on one hand, Volkswagen was trying to go after sales to people who were perhaps not traditional buyers of their brand, but on the other hand may have alienated others who were traditional buyers, and are now are forced to choose from even fewer models that fit that bill. Given the fact that VoA's American lineup is abysmal compared to what is available in Europe, I'd say their pursuit to cater to larger cheaper sedan buyers has eclipsed everything else. And now that NO diesels of ANY kind are available here, that was the final nail in the coffin for a lot of us, myself included. There is zero chance I will buy a new Volkswagen ever again unless something drastic changes, which I doubt it will.
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Old September 6th, 2017, 08:03   #15
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I guess the old saying applies

" You can't make a silk purse from a sows ears "
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