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TDI Conversions Discussions on converting non TDIs into TDIS. More general items can be answered better in other sections. This is ideal for issues that don't have an overlap and are very special to swaping engines.

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Old October 17th, 2016, 17:33   #1
iwannajettatdi
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Default ALH TDI with 02m syncro swap

This is a copy of the post I made on the UK t4 forums, pardon some of the questions...





I am in the process of planning for a swap into a 2002 Eurovan that I picked up for quite a deal with a slipping transmission and 176k miles. Because of the "lifetime ATF" from VW the previous owner never changed the ATF until it started acting a little funky about a year ago . Sheesh. Shortly after getting it home I replaced the valve body in the 01p but id didn't make a difference, so my guess is the whole transmission will need to be rebuilt/replaced at a tune of $2-5k. Yuck. I'd rather have a manual diesel drivetrain anyways which prompted this idea. I like the 02m because it's a little more beefy than the 02j, the 02b and 02g gearboxes that are clocked appropriately for the eurovan are only 5 speeds and to find a syncro one is quite difficult and expensive in europe. Plus I like 6 speeds, just a weird fascination of mine. An 02j with a slightly taller 5th would work as well, I'm just worried about the jump from 4th to 5th with the weight of a loaded eurovan and having to downshift on most hills.

I know the ALH motor well as it was in my 99.5 Jetta that I pushed to 350k miles and at one point swapped from the 5 speed 02j to a 6 speed 02m gearbox from the UK from RyanP. My idea is for a mild build on the motor with 150 or so bhp and 250-300 torque. My problem is all of the van gearboxes from that era are 5 speed, and geared quite low. The 2.5tdi came with a syncro transfer box and a 5 speed as well, but to find one of those gearboxes is quite like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack, but the stack is the size of a football stadium. Plus bolting a 4 cylinder to a 5 cylinder transmission is difficult. They are quite unobtanium here, and when we find them they end up being $2-4k plus shipping and then all the associated parts are difficult to source as they have to all come from overseas or eBay.de. Shipping a 2.5tdi from the UK would be the easiest and logical option, however because of the EPA and California emissions folks here I wouldn't be able to register and drive it on road. Well, not easily or cheaply.

Side bar: With the above HP/Tq figures, would a VR6 240mm SMF and a g60 clutch hold? I've just finished reading the Audi TT->TDI swap and don't want to go through the southbend clutch fiasco that he went through.

To match with the 1.9L TDI, I'd like to get one of the 02m gearboxes that mate to a 4 cylinder VAG motor and I'm going to have to play with the gear ratios a bit, but I've been researching quite a bit on the Vortex and I think I've been able to figure out the ratios I want to use coupled with the larger tires for the eurovan. My issue stems from the current Quattro boxes available to me here in the states are in the Audi TT cars or in a few of the VW cars such as GLI or R32, but the R32 boxes have bellhousings set up for a VR6 motor that won't fit a 4 cylinder. The euro diesel 4motion boxes are geared such that in the car I was going 70 right around 2000 rpms, which was fine for the smaller Jetta, but with the larger tires of the van 65-70 would put you closer to 1800rpms or less. While this is in the optimum torque range, I have concern that with a heavier, bigger, less aerodynamic van, and especially with the syncro hooked up this will require frequent downshifts on the interstates and hills or for passing, which will be annoying. I've got graphs of probably 5-6 different gearboxes with different tire sizes, comparing each other to both the 02j 5 speed and 02m 6 speed I had in the jetta, and I should probably add what the 02b/g gearboxes look like as well to give something nice to match up to.

I think what I'm going to end up doing is to get a gearbox from an Audi TT 225 with a 1.8T motor and the quattro set up and as I'll have the box apart to put in a front LSD (I'm thinking Wavetrac over Peloquin/Quaiffe for offroad travel... I'd love to discuss more with anyone who has actual experience with them) I was contemplating swapping in a diesel ring/pinion set. Unfortunately for the 02m this means two pinion gears that are matched to the ring gear as it's a three shaft gearbox, but such is life. The best fit I found and could live with was from a Sharan, but the guys at Dutch autoparts didn't seem to think a Sharan FD would fit in the box. I seemed to have found Sharan FD ratios for the 02m, but maybe they have a slightly larger bellhousing? I will be able to live with the slightly higher RPMs of the TT box by fitting larger tires though. The graph below shows an 02m with mk4 sized tires in blue, an 02j 5th with mk4 tires in yellow, then in red the TT box in 6th with 225/60-16s, looks like from the UK guys this is the biggest size that will fit on the van. Would put me about 100rpms over where the 02j sits in top gear. I don't mind the extra shifting, and I like the idea of a closer ratio gearbox in a heavy van and if we do any off roading it would be nice to keep it close. The green is a TT box with the Sharan FD of 79/22/27 for the ring/pinion1/pinion2, this give 1-4 FD of 3.591 and 5-6/R FD of 2.926. The green graph is with the stock size eurovan tires, with the larger tires I was looking at the rpms would be about 75-100 rpms lower I think. If anyone has any info on whether this will fit in an Audi 02m gearbox, let me know. Awfully custom with the swapping of gears, but I think it would make it worthwhile. Maybe down the road for sure. It would definitely help the mileage on the long drives.



From what I can find, the transfer box that bolts to the gearbox is a 17/27 ratio, out to the propshaft, into the rear diff and gets converted back with a 27/17 ratio to keep the wheels at the same speeds. I think I want/need a viscous coupler, but I haven't found much info on them for the T4s. Also, I think in the UK the 2.5TDI transporters could come with a locking rear differential, if anyone has one or a lead for one let me know so I can pick it up. Also, is there somewhere I can find the correct length of the propshafts so that I can have some made up, or attempt to piece this together myself with euro parts? Would a Tiguan rear diff and Haldex setup work in a eurovan?


My parts list (a work in progress):

motor - can source locally - I know the mounting angles are different, I'm already working on an adapter plate for motor/gearbox in the van. See below. Apparently Frans is also planning on a setup. I'm waiting (im)patiently.
Motor mounts, dogbone - custom
CV axles for the passenger side from transfer box to wheel - likely custom?
T4 oil pan and oil pickup tube to fit the new motor angle. See above. ABL 1.9TD stuff should bolt up and would work, right? Will also need to drill a new dipstick tube.
Turbo Downpipe - Do you guys know of anyone that makes a syncro/quattro/4motion downpipe that would work with the transfer box and rear driveshaft in the way?
TT quattro gearbox from 225 1.8T with LSD - can source locally
transfer box - locally
propshaft - ?
viscous coupler - ?
rear differential plus carrier +/- Haldex controller (?) - Can I use one from a Tiguan or an R32 and pick this up in the US? I can't seem to find much info on actual ratios in the rear differentials.
rear subframe, swing arms/control arms, CV axles, hubs, brakes
Lots of wiring


In all likelyhood I'm just going to be sourcing the gearbox first and doing the rear bits/syncro stuff at a later date once the van is back on the road and operational.

I think the motor/gearbox adapter plate that will allow me to clock the Jetta mounting position roughly 40-50* forward to fit the eurovan is my sticky point at the moment (Ideally 45ish degrees?). From what I've found the ALH motors are 15-20* back towards the firewall in the G/J/NB and are about 25-27* forward towards the radiator in the Eurovans. I've found drawings for an industrial ALH TDI, but can't seem to find proper gearbox measurements for the normal ALH motor as it's mounted in the Jetta/Golf/New Beetle.

Having these drawings I could come up with something in CAD that would allow me to simply rotate the mounting position around the appropriate distance and build it on a 1/2"-5/8" spacer to be able to keep the 02m properly positioned for the transfer box output. Probably would need a flywheel spacer to match and use longer bolts I think, at least to start with. I could take this to any machine shop and have them mill it out for me on the CNC machine, as well as come up with a flywheel spacer to fit the adapter plate. I've been trading emails with one of the members here that's done a few of the swaps to other nonfamily vehicles, but I haven't heard back after he was going to speak with his machinist. Probably busy, but not sure. Any help on this is appreciated as well. Drawings and/or measurements would suffice, I've searched a lot and only been able to find a few drawings that aren't laid out or notated well. The hard part is the dowel position related to crank centerline, if these are off even a few thousandths it'll cause premature wear of the input bushing/bearing, wobble, and clutch destruction. If I've got the drawings I don't mind to alter as needed for what I want to do, just need an actual ALH bellhousing pattern with the lower oil pan bolts as well.

Here is the link for the engine side bellhousing pattern http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/tdi...wing_small.pdf . I've also found the crank/flywheel bolt pattern as well.

Thanks!

Ryan
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2002 Eurovan TDI BHW 02d syncro project - The Adventure Bus
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Gone-2006 V10 Touareg TDI
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Last edited by iwannajettatdi; October 17th, 2016 at 18:09.
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Old October 20th, 2016, 05:33   #2
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was going to do the same thing on a EV camper over a year ago... as you surmised, using the passenger car diesel trans in the EV will be geared too tall... I had planned on using 02M from a stateside 1.8t mkiv and adapting it via one of EVguy's adapter plates that is clockable to any position using a 360* pilot/spigot mount ... he will have to make a custom one for you that adapts four-cylinder to four-cylinder, but I was messaging him back-and-forth about the possibility and he said it wouldn't be a problem
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Old October 20th, 2016, 06:36   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbote View Post
was going to do the same thing on a EV camper over a year ago... as you surmised, using the passenger car diesel trans in the EV will be geared too tall... I had planned on using 02M from a stateside 1.8t mkiv and adapting it via one of EVguy's adapter plates that is clockable to any position using a 360* pilot/spigot mount ... he will have to make a custom one for you that adapts four-cylinder to four-cylinder, but I was messaging him back-and-forth about the possibility and he said it wouldn't be a problem
Hey now this is an interesting idea....Especially since I have a Eurovan, a pile of TDI engines, and an 02M from a 1.8T GLI ...Thinking BHW in my van though...
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Old October 20th, 2016, 07:08   #4
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Subscribed.

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Old October 21st, 2016, 12:40   #5
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Wow. Ambitious.

Keep in mind that with the 4-mo transmission, you want the output of the angle drive to be horizontal, so you don't want to rotate the transmission. If you go with a spacer/rotation plate between the engine and trans it should be very easy to accomplish that.

Don't discount the TT180q 5spd 02m transmission.
It's essentially a DRW gearset with short diff ratios, and missing 6th, but 6th is pretty easy to put back in. (hint: DRW 6th gear) Only one gear, not a gearset. The other 1/2 of the set is already in the trans.

There is a viscous coupler version for the 17/27 rear diff, I think it was on the european version of your van.

Don't forget to look at the HPA module to control the rear diff if you go full Haldex.
Your 2002 Eurovan probably has the supporting electronics to make the haldex work w/o the HPA module.

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Old October 21st, 2016, 17:43   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDave View Post
Wow. Ambitious.

Keep in mind that with the 4-mo transmission, you want the output of the angle drive to be horizontal, so you don't want to rotate the transmission. If you go with a spacer/rotation plate between the engine and trans it should be very easy to accomplish that.

Don't discount the TT180q 5spd 02m transmission.
It's essentially a DRW gearset with short diff ratios, and missing 6th, but 6th is pretty easy to put back in. (hint: DRW 6th gear) Only one gear, not a gearset. The other 1/2 of the set is already in the trans.

There is a viscous coupler version for the 17/27 rear diff, I think it was on the european version of your van.

Don't forget to look at the HPA module to control the rear diff if you go full Haldex.
Your 2002 Eurovan probably has the supporting electronics to make the haldex work w/o the HPA module.

-Dave
It is a bit ambitious, but I've been out of sorts for the past two years without a TDI in my life. I got a truck wanting to eventually swap in a different motor, but because its a 2009 with all the electronic mess it would be pretty difficult. So now I'm back to what I know, the early 2000s, ALH motors, and the MK4 body style. I'm definitely planning on keeping the gearbox in a stock mounting location/angle to use the angle drive output and to keep the CV axles at a normal angle. I'm working on an adapter plate to clock to motor to fit the Eurovan, but it also means custom motor and gearbox mounts, as well as likely notching the oil pan, adjusting the oil pickup tube, and figuring out a mount/brace for the far side of the angle drive against the block to keep it from moving. I found a few posts on the UK T4 forums where this guy did a PD130 with 02m swap

http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=780001

And this guy did a 1.8T with 02m 4motion gearbox swap, but neither of them rotated the gearbox to the correct orientation. Neither seem to be having problems, so that's nice at least. This guy also managed to find the passenger/right side CV axle from an Audi S3 that was the same length, or close enough to fit the van, which is super nice to know.

http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=371766

Shows that it can be done.

I've thought about the 5 speed Audi TT 180 02m, but from what I understand it's not a quattro. Would work if you just wanted a FWD van, but I figure that if this is going to be done I'll do it right the first time. There are a few of the 225 TTq 02ms near me, and I think I've found my donor TDI. Time to start taking things apart .

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTiTDi View Post
Hey now this is an interesting idea....Especially since I have a Eurovan, a pile of TDI engines, and an 02M from a 1.8T GLI ...Thinking BHW in my van though...
Right?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbote View Post
was going to do the same thing on a EV camper over a year ago... as you surmised, using the passenger car diesel trans in the EV will be geared too tall... I had planned on using 02M from a stateside 1.8t mkiv and adapting it via one of EVguy's adapter plates that is clockable to any position using a 360* pilot/spigot mount ... he will have to make a custom one for you that adapts four-cylinder to four-cylinder, but I was messaging him back-and-forth about the possibility and he said it wouldn't be a problem
The stock sized tires will be running RPMs a little higher that I'd prefer, but to get the van moving and get the kinks ironed out for this winter I don't mind that. Also, adjusting FD ratios will be a possibility when I'm in there to toss in a limited slip diff, likely a wavetrac. Glad to see I'm not the only one that's considered this, I may just be the only one crazy enough to go for it so far.

I spoke with EVGuy through email a few weeks ago, I'm sure he got busy and I haven't heard back from him in a bit. I need to get back in touch. His mount spaces the motor 1-2" out from the gearbox which is fine, but that means you have to use quite a large spacer for the flywheel to make sure the clutch and starter engage properly. Not ideal, but it might be the easiest option to start with.
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Old October 23rd, 2016, 06:22   #7
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I like the idea of using parts from this part of the world. Is that the idea instead of sourcing parts from europe?
I know its expensive but... Heres one that will bolt in.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Syncro-5-spe...VUuH~g&vxp=mtr
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Old October 24th, 2016, 19:22   #8
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Archemitis - yes, that's the idea. Just for ease of replacement and or spares. It's going to be a little more work for me at the beginning just because it's not been done this way before. But once things get measured out and are made so that they can be repeatable I think it will be come easier in the future. I've seen that box on ebay a few times, but it's an 02D 5 speed, plus its $4,000 minus shipping! I'm hoping that I have less than that in my swap in TOTAL parts wise to get it going. The rear diff and drive shafts are gonna be a little more difficult to source and I can't decide if I want to stick with easy and go with a viscous coupler or if I want to go to Haldex for better control with a standalone controller. I found a guy on Vortex that can flash the stock Haldex controller to make it work better, and it's cheaper than one of the HPA units.

Decisions, decisions. Time to get to wrenching.


PS, after looking at that 02D box on ebay again, I'm not sure if the 4 cylinder motors will bolt up to the bellhousing since it's made for a 2.4 or 2.5 5 cylinder motor. I think the 5 and 6s are the same, but the 4s are different. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old November 29th, 2016, 02:38   #9
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6 speed transmissions for VW, new 6 speed gearbox for VW T4 2.5 TDI

It is the only way how to substantially reduce engine noise and fuel consumption – therefore the investment will pay off – partially or entirely.
The highest savings will be achieved by those owners of VW vehicles who are used to fast speed and will be able to use the 6th gear after the upgrade.

For example, at the speed of about 160 km/h, the consumption is reduced by up to 1.5 - 2l fuel after engaging the 6th gear. Our part kit is an ideal solution for the owners of VW vehicles with series production engines 1.9 TDi, 1.8T, VR6 etc.

A big customer group for us are the owners of the vehicles VW Transporter T4. The ratio of the gears in the gearboxes of VW T4 is very short in the series production to enable the vehicle to carry a load of up to 1000 kg; however, many owners buy this vehicle because of its big interior and not to transport big loads.

When operated at the 5th speed, the engines VWT4 achieve more than 3000 rpm already at a speed of 100 km/h.

We offer for VW T4, VW T4 syncro :

1) 6 speed coversion of 02B, 02D (MQ 250 Nm)gearboxes The upgrade of the gearbox 02A, 02B, 02D and costs 1300,- USD

2) EuroTuning offers the only in the world! 6 speed gearbox 02G
02G is the gearbox (MQ 300 Nm)the VW T4 models are equipped with - with the 2.5 TDI 75kW, 111 kW engines.The gearbox 02G will have to be sent to the Czech Republic to upgrade it (this was agreed upon with TNT). After approx. 14 work days, we return the 6 speed version with 2200,- USD being the price for the upgrade.

3) the permanent transmissions 6:1 for VW T4 syncro, for the gearbox 02G, the parts will cost 3400,- USD

4) 100% locking front differential for VW T4 syncro, price 2250,- USD

5) protection against water ingress for Transmissions and Clutch, set 135,- USD

Best regards, dipl. ing. Jakub Kalivoda, EuroTuning, Czech Republic








Last edited by EuroTuning; November 29th, 2016 at 04:11.
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Old January 14th, 2017, 22:27   #10
iwannajettatdi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroTuning View Post
6 speed transmissions for VW, new 6 speed gearbox for VW T4 2.5 TDI

It is the only way how to substantially reduce engine noise and fuel consumption therefore the investment will pay off partially or entirely.
The highest savings will be achieved by those owners of VW vehicles who are used to fast speed and will be able to use the 6th gear after the upgrade.

For example, at the speed of about 160 km/h, the consumption is reduced by up to 1.5 - 2l fuel after engaging the 6th gear. Our part kit is an ideal solution for the owners of VW vehicles with series production engines 1.9 TDi, 1.8T, VR6 etc.

A big customer group for us are the owners of the vehicles VW Transporter T4. The ratio of the gears in the gearboxes of VW T4 is very short in the series production to enable the vehicle to carry a load of up to 1000 kg; however, many owners buy this vehicle because of its big interior and not to transport big loads.

When operated at the 5th speed, the engines VWT4 achieve more than 3000 rpm already at a speed of 100 km/h.

We offer for VW T4, VW T4 syncro :

1) 6 speed coversion of 02B, 02D (MQ 250 Nm)gearboxes The upgrade of the gearbox 02A, 02B, 02D and costs 1300,- USD

2) EuroTuning offers the only in the world! 6 speed gearbox 02G
02G is the gearbox (MQ 300 Nm)the VW T4 models are equipped with - with the 2.5 TDI 75kW, 111 kW engines.The gearbox 02G will have to be sent to the Czech Republic to upgrade it (this was agreed upon with TNT). After approx. 14 work days, we return the 6 speed version with 2200,- USD being the price for the upgrade.

3) the permanent transmissions 6:1 for VW T4 syncro, for the gearbox 02G, the parts will cost 3400,- USD

4) 100% locking front differential for VW T4 syncro, price 2250,- USD

5) protection against water ingress for Transmissions and Clutch, set 135,- USD

Best regards, dipl. ing. Jakub Kalivoda, EuroTuning, Czech Republic







Hmm, this is interesting. If I had access or was able to use a 2.5L TDI, this would be quite nice. The only thing I would worry about being so far away is that if anything broke, getting parts would be a complete pain. Unfortunately, until Frans at Dutch Autoparts gets his 02g adapter for 4 cylinders made this isn't quite an option for us here in the states, yet.
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2002 Eurovan TDI BHW 02d syncro project - The Adventure Bus
2011 MK6 Golf, 120k miles - Soon to be sold
Gone-2006 V10 Touareg TDI
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Old January 15th, 2017, 00:23   #11
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Another long post.. sorry for that. TLR - using a BHW motor, likely a euro 6 speed from a T5, need advice on some motor issues.

I made a break in the motor hunt, I found a family owned 2004 B5.5 Passat with the 2.0L TDI and a bum transmission and was able to pick up the whole car for $1500. This gives me access to all of the wiring and electronics I'll hopefully need. I've got all of the wiring from the front seats forward out and I'll need to still go through the and weed out the unneeded wiring. The motor ran well and didn't smoke, plus the ABS controller on the Passat has ESP, ASR and EDL. I found a few swaps on the Passatworld forums to swap ESP modules, and I'll be swapping the ABS controller from the Passat to the van to make the ECU happy and keep ABS. Plus I'll be attempting to keep the cruise control. All of this is theoretical, but I'm hopeful. I've already swapped the balance shaft module for an ALH oil pump and updated the timing belt since it was out of the car. I know the longitudinal orientation is different than the vans, but I have an accessory bracket from a BEW motor so the AC compressor will be on the front of the motor.

I'd like to get a different compressor housing so the output to the intercooler points in a different direction, the VNT-17s for the ALH motors have the output of the compressor pointing straight up which would be much easier to figure out the intercooler piping. In the newer vans the output is right under the intake and points in the same direction, but that's on the newer 2.0 CR motors and I dont think the exhaust ports will line up right and the turbo is part of the exhaust manifold. Too complicated. Can I clock my VNT 17 to put the output of the compressor in a better location? Right now it's going to point straight down towards the axle. Also, is there a way to move the turbo more towards the back of the motor and the gearbox? This would locate it closer to the centerline and in the hump of the firewall. Is it a turbo issue or a manifold issue? Is there a VNT-17 that has the compressor on the driver's side of the motor? Or is there a way to flip the turbo over? My suspicion is that by doing this it will mess up the intake and oil return, but can this be overcome? Either way I'll be using one of the adapters to use a regular 2" hose out to my intercooler.

I've been doing a lot of research and CAD drawing over the past few months, trying to find out if I can get the 02m to work with the van and still keep the syncro transfer box pointed towards the rear. Unfortunately to make it work with the larger transfer box on the 02m quattro gearboxes I'd have to rotate the motor about 40* from vertical, towards the radiator. In comparison the normal mounting angle for the 4 cylinders is 27* and for the 5 cylinder and VR6 motors is 34*. My concern with doing this is that the oil cooler, fuel filter and alternator are going to hit the radiator, and now that I have the vr6 out of the van and have offered the TDI/02m combo up a few ways I'm worried that the turbo is going to hit the firewall at that angle. I'm still fiddling with it to try and make it work but I have some other ideas. The auto VR6 axles are also a different size, more on that below.

First option is just to get an 02m from a GTI/front wheel drive car without the transfer case, but then I'll still have to get some sort of trumpet/axle extension or a much longer offside axle (my passenger side, the right side of the van when sitting in it) which will likely introduce a bit of torque steer like in my old MK4 Jetta. I'm hoping to avoid this if possible. This solves the issue of extra engine rotation, I'll be able to keep it at 27* like the stock motors, however I'll still have to make/have made an adapter plate and a flywheel spacer. Less than ideal, but if anyone is interested I have multiple drawings with dimensions that I can share of the adapter plates and angles.

Second idea is just to get a box from a T4 eurovan, gearbox mounts will match up and should fit like a glove. I'm going to have to switch my axles for this (for the first idea too) because apparently the VR6 came with 112mm inner CV joints/gearbox flanges (who knew?) I thought the 108mm was the biggest there was. So to use what I've got I'm going to have to swap to manual axles anyways with the 108mm inner CV joints. I was able to find what I need here online, but I'm not sure if I want to spend money on this if I'm not going forward with this idea. The biggest problem with the T4 boxes for me is the super low gearing of all of the T4 manual boxes and the higher highway RPMs that they have. Most of them sit around 3000rpms at 65-70mph. I'd like to be around 2000-2200 RPMs at 70-75. I'd settle for 2400. I'm also concerned the higher torque numbers I'll have with the 2.0 PD motor will likely break the box, should be between 3-400 lb/ft of torque. Frans from Dutch Auto Parts is working on an adapter for the 02g gearbox which holds higher torque, but I'd like to have something a little newer and not having to use a spacer for the flywheel would be something I'd like to avoid if possible. We are planning on taking some long road trips around the country, to Mexico and Canada in the van, so newer parts would give my us a little more peace of mind.

Third idea, and what I'm trying to go for now, is to get a box from a T5. I think for ease of install I'm just going to get a 2wd box until I can get things up and running, put the 4motion swap on hold for now. The T5 boxes have the same 4 cylinder bellhousing pattern and based on looking at the pictures the mounting angle is pretty damn close to the T4s, close enough that it should work. I've been told that the gearbox input shaft is larger than the 02m, but I haven't been able to confirm that. If anyone has or can take measurements for me of the shaft size and the spline count that would be helpful. The reason I'm wondering is I have an uprated 240mm clutch, pressure plate and flywheel from Southbend for the 02m gearbox, and if I could use the setup for the 0a5 gearbox I'd like to so I don't have to buy more parts. I was told by the Darkside Development guys that I could just get a clutch disc with a larger input, but other options are appreciated. At least the two gearboxes use the same size clutch. The one I have is rated up to 395 lb/ft, so should be plenty stout for what I'm planning. Right now have the VNT17 turbo, will have FMIC and will also have likely a stage 2 chip. This coupled with the ESP/ASR/EDL ABS swap over from the Passat that I'm planning should keep things interesting.

There are two gearboxes offered for the 4 cylinder motors/TDIs, the 5-speed 02z and the 6-speed 0a5 gearboxes from the updated, facelift T5.1s. The 0a5 that comes with the newer facelift T5.1 140bhp and 180bhp motors will hold higher torque so that is likely what I'll be looking for. The gear ratios will match up better I think since they are built for a TDI, however the 6 speed is geared a little longer than I had hoped, but this makes it great for autobahn touring (not as great on US roadways.) This will mean that I'll likely have to either cruise in 5th or have some gear changes on the bigger hills. But it will lower RPMs and noise quite drastically compared to the T4 box. The two TDI codes I'm looking at are the KUP and PAP ratios. Based on the article here the ratios of the 140 and 180bhp motors are:

140bhp
i Gang 1. / 2. / 3. / 4. / 5./ 6. / R. - Gang
3,92 / 2,05 / 1,70 / 1,09 / 0,82 / 0,68 / 4,95

180bhp
3,92 / 2,05 / 1,75 / 1,16 / 0,86 / 0,73 / 4,95

Also, interestingly the article states the motors are tilted forward at only 8*. Not sure what this will mean for mounting, or CV angles. If nothing else this may mean I only have to tip things forwards a few degrees, vs. 40+ degrees. I'll still have to adjust the oil pickup tube, but I have a T5 oil sump on the way from Europe that will fit much better than the BHW Passat one.

The newer gearboxes have a different attachment, instead of flanges they now use stub shafts. The axles are splined and fit over the stub shafts. The problem with these axles is the length on the T5 axles seems to be a little longer than the T4, so I'll likely have to take them to an axle shop to have them shortened appropriately. Another thought is to swap the inner CV joints of the T5 axles onto the T4 shafts. Any idea if the inner splines and star pieces inside the CV joint will be the same? Or better yet, since the outer joints are different between the T4 and T5, can I swap the T4 outers onto the T5 shaft so that I won't have the change my hubs and all that nonsense?

When the time comes and the bugs are worked out I'll look for a 4motion box and locking rear diff from a newer T5, but I think this has taken a back seat to getting the van on the road so we can camp and actually use it this spring/summer. The good news is that if I already have a T5 box it should be mostly plug and play. I found someone that can help me with a standalone Haldex controller when I do eventually complete the swap.

Any thoughts or advice is appreciated. Also, if anyone can verify the size of the 0a5 input shaft/spline count I would appreciate it. I've also posted on the T4 van forums again, so I'm hoping they will be able to shed some light as well.
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2002 Eurovan TDI BHW 02d syncro project - The Adventure Bus
2011 MK6 Golf, 120k miles - Soon to be sold
Gone-2006 V10 Touareg TDI
DEAD-99.5 A4 Jetta, 349,919 miles RIPieces
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Old February 17th, 2017, 22:34   #12
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Haldex is the way I'm going. I played around for about a month with the 02m I have and I could just never get it to sit/fit the way I wanted it to. Sooooooo I messed up and went and bought a 6 speed/4motion gearbox from a T5 from England. And it just arrived yesterday .

Anywho, here is a picture from the front, first offering up.




I like where it fits, problem is, it still needs to go backwards a few inches, and I'd like to bring it up a little higher to help get the transmission and oil pan higher. Here's one from the right side.




The issue is the turbo. I'm using a 2.0 PD TDI from a B5.5 Passat, I'm wondering if the longitudinal layout has the turbo sitting a little more closely to the front/right side of the engine and I can't get it to sit in the hump in the firewall. For those of you who have put a TDI into something else, is there another exhaust manifold/turbo combo that will move the VNT-17 to the right and closer to the gearbox? Should I get a manifold from a golf/jetta? I need to shift the turbo closer to the gearbox to fit better. Is there an option out there that you guys know about? Is there a different VNT-17 that I can use that has the compressor on the driver side of the motor?

Here's a picture. As you can see, the transfer box output is in the middle, so I can't shift the lump any further to the left.



Definitely getting closer though. The T5 gearbox lets things sit/fit better that the 02m ever wanted to. I've also got a set of inner CV joints coming that I'll be able to use to figure out the axles. Interestingly, the Eurovans have 28/27 splines on the inner/outer of the axle shaft that the CV joints fit on, the T5s have 30/29. I'm either going to have to respline the inner end of the T4 shaft, or see if I can swap the inner stars between the two CV joints and make up a franken joint/axle. I've got to get the engine/gearbox mounted up first, though.

Hopefully someone can help me out here. Thanks!
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2002 Eurovan TDI BHW 02d syncro project - The Adventure Bus
2011 MK6 Golf, 120k miles - Soon to be sold
Gone-2006 V10 Touareg TDI
DEAD-99.5 A4 Jetta, 349,919 miles RIPieces
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Old February 18th, 2017, 09:05   #13
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Favourite color for the T4! Subscribed, and gaining inspiration to import a European T4 California TDI 4motion.
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Old February 20th, 2017, 01:06   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIMeister View Post
Favourite color for the T4! Subscribed, and gaining inspiration to import a European T4 California TDI 4motion.

Be still my beating heart. That in a T5 flavor would be epic. I'm hoping I can do the same thing with mine that that would be. We shall see. It looks like I'm also going to have to adjust my steering rack to clear the angle drive to the rear. Not sure how I'm going to get around that yet. This doing something new and breaking new ground on a project is tough.
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2002 Eurovan TDI BHW 02d syncro project - The Adventure Bus
2011 MK6 Golf, 120k miles - Soon to be sold
Gone-2006 V10 Touareg TDI
DEAD-99.5 A4 Jetta, 349,919 miles RIPieces
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Old February 27th, 2017, 14:53   #15
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Ok, a little update. I figured out why the turbo keeps getting in the way. See the pictures below.





Pardon the messy garage in the background, limited space and things go where they fit right now.

The BHW turbo is spaced out/angled off of the block quite a bit to fit both the starter and AC bracket/compressor under the turbo. From what I can tell the transverse mounted cars have a manifold that holds the turbo closer to the block. I emailed Thomas at Quality German Autoparts and he said he has a manifold that will work for what I need with the three bolt flange to keep using the VNT-17 from the Passat. I emailed him on Friday afternoon and he called me back on Sunday to discuss it. Wow. Just wow. Awesome customer service and I hope to be able to continue doing business with him.

I've got a cut to length/fit section of oil return hose from Darkside Developments to use once I get the turbo remounted on the new manifold, and I also purchased a flexible braided stainless oil feed line from Kerma. Kerma will also hopefully be sending me some other gaskets and mounting bits to button things up.

The next thing I have a question about is the number three cylinder exhaust port. You can see that 1, 2 and 4 are pretty dry (I'm counting from the cambelt side back to the flywheel), but number 3 has a bit of a shine/sheen on it.

1.


2.


3.

4.


Is this something to be worried about? Or is this some leftover fuel from the last time it was running? It ran well and drove itself easily into the garage with minimal fuss or smoke before the motor was pulled. The rear main was leaking a little (has been replaced) and there was oil all over the back side of the motor, if the exhaust manifold gasket was bad would it make it look like this? Just wondering if there is something I need to look into while the motor is out and everything is accessible easily.


I had to loosen/raise the steering rack to get the gearbox into place and fitted where it is far enough back, I still am waiting on the european inner CV joints to get here so I can mock up some axles. I'll likely need to get some spacers to keep the rack over the rear transfer case output, I'm not completely sure how to integrate this yet. Has anyone here retrofitted one of the newer electric power steering pumps from the newer cars? How does it integrate with the steering rack? I'm hoping the transmission is far enough back that I won't have to adjust the front shock absorber mount points. Since the torsion bars help hold most of the weight I don't think moving the mount point a little forward shouldn't be too big of an issue if it's necessary.

I'm also in contact with Darkside in the UK to try and find a 240mm clutch disc that will hold the torque and have the right splines for the T5 6 speed 0a5. The 02m input shaft is definitely smaller with a different spline count.

Thoughts and suggestions are always appreciated.

-Ryan
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2002 Eurovan TDI BHW 02d syncro project - The Adventure Bus
2011 MK6 Golf, 120k miles - Soon to be sold
Gone-2006 V10 Touareg TDI
DEAD-99.5 A4 Jetta, 349,919 miles RIPieces
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