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TDI Conversions Discussions on converting non TDIs into TDIS. More general items can be answered better in other sections. This is ideal for issues that don't have an overlap and are very special to swaping engines.

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Old September 14th, 2016, 06:22   #16
Mikkijayne
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Elsawin tells pretty much everything about the transmission specs. Post up the trans codes and I'll look them up for you
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Old September 14th, 2016, 06:26   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkijayne View Post
Elsawin tells pretty much everything about the transmission specs. Post up the trans codes and I'll look them up for you

The BHW FWD car is GMR, the AWM 4mo car is FAL.

Thank you!
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Old September 14th, 2016, 08:19   #18
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Perhaps you could just use the TDI's trans computer. Easy enough to plug it in right now and see what happens.

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Old September 14th, 2016, 08:35   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkijayne View Post
Elsawin tells pretty much everything about the transmission specs.
Except in this case It is not being particularly forthcoming with the information for the FAL so it might take me a little while...
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Old September 14th, 2016, 09:53   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compu_85 View Post
Perhaps you could just use the TDI's trans computer. Easy enough to plug it in right now and see what happens.

-J
See post #1

But I am going to try that first in a different AWM car hopefully this week just to see what happens.
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Old September 14th, 2016, 14:06   #21
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Elsawin is being somewhat belligerent today and not showing the FAL at all. However, it has confirmed that ratios for all 5HP19s are the same:

1st 3.665
2nd 1.999
3rd 1.407
4th 1.000
5th 0.742

Final drive is 3.091 or 2.727 but it is declining to tell me which is in either the FAL or GMR.

Most vexing.
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Old September 14th, 2016, 15:54   #22
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3.0911 is the final drive for the GMR transmission.

FAL code gear ratios are 3.67, 1.99, 1.41, 1.00 and 0.740 with a 4.10 reverse.

Final drive is also 3.0911

GMR transmission has a special torque converter and valve body for diesel application.

I think you might be OK with the gear ratios - but you might run into an error code for the torque converter because the gas converter will slip more than the diesel.
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Old September 14th, 2016, 17:29   #23
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Well someone is wrong.
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Old September 14th, 2016, 17:59   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
Well someone is wrong.
About what? Mikkijayne's information is correct. The 2.727 may be the rear diff ratio for the FLA. I only have the ZF information which doesn't include anything outside of the transmission.
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Old September 14th, 2016, 19:08   #25
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I think its group 015 in engine measuring blocks that outputs wheel speed, log that and engine RPM, back calculate it. I'm sure the gasser has similar measuring blocks. If they're the same, it'll be obvious.
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Old September 15th, 2016, 03:45   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddok View Post
About what? Mikkijayne's information is correct. The 2.727 may be the rear diff ratio for the FLA. I only have the ZF information which doesn't include anything outside of the transmission.
From your two posts I really can't tell what the difference is. But I KNOW the two transmissions are geared differently. Whether it is in the actual gearsets or the final drive, or both, is unclear.

Mikki stated all 5HP19 gear ratios are the same. (post #21) You said the final drive ratio is the same. (post #22) Well, something has to be different. Because I am 100% certain the tachometer does not read the same in 5th gear + lockup cruising on level ground. It is hard to gauge the lower gears unless you REALLY pay attention to lockup, or unless I drove with a scan tool... but even then, there is no lockup in 1st. I know the diesel will lock up from 2nd gear on. Not sure about the gas.

My gut feeling from driving the cars tells me that just the final drive is lower on the gasser. And if that is indeed the case, any gear ratio monitoring won't be bothered by the change. I know you can put a gasser 01M behind an ALH and they work just fine. They just spin the engine faster. No faults, no strange shifting, nothing. But the 01M is a totally different unit.

I could always swap the converter and valve body from the GMR trans if that would be helpful, I suppose. I put a new converter in it about 130k miles ago.
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Last edited by oilhammer; September 15th, 2016 at 03:51.
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Old September 15th, 2016, 03:52   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFettig View Post
I think its group 015 in engine measuring blocks that outputs wheel speed, log that and engine RPM, back calculate it. I'm sure the gasser has similar measuring blocks. If they're the same, it'll be obvious.

I already know that much, I'm just trying to determine where the difference is.

I'll know more by this weekend.
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Old September 15th, 2016, 08:59   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddok View Post
The 2.727 may be the rear diff ratio for the FLA..
I didn't quote diff ratios as the information in Elsawin didn't make a great deal of sense. It had 2.727 and 3.09something for the diff in the trans, but the usual 3.889 and 4.111 for the rear end. I have to assume on that basis that the output gear set which drives the front end is correcting the ratio for the front so that the wheel speed is the same at both ends. Since I couldn't find specifics for the FAL or GMR I couldn't say whether they are the same or not.
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Old September 15th, 2016, 09:39   #29
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What this thread needs is Pictures!



On another note, I guess I have too much time on my hands today. In a round about way of researching and connecting these sources below together.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/3_transmission.pdf
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/zf_...atalog_pdf.pdf
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/5HP19FLA.pdf
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=4151856

I conclude the transmission code of a 1.8L 4 motion is FAL and has a differential gear ratio of 3.73. All other gear ratios are the same as the GMR.


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Old September 15th, 2016, 10:06   #30
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Yes, I am thinking that it would make the most sense that they'd simply do what most other VAG slushboxes do (regardless of the manufacturer) and just run a different final drive and leave everything else the same.

Manuals, of course, are a very different story. And they've always been that way.

Not much for pictures yet. Here is the wrecked donor car right before I lifted on to the trailer:



Same color as my 2004 TDI sedan, so I saved the rear bumper cover and sideview mirrors.

Here is the engine/trans out of that car, but that is not the engine I am going to use:



That engine/trans went into their other 2005 Passat that has 270k miles on it. I am using the engine I took out of that car. It is in good working order however. And the GMR transmission works fine, and I installed a new converter in it about 130k miles ago. If I don't end up needing/using it, I may be selling it or perhaps scouting around for a B5 TDI with a bad trans.

Really a shame as that sedan pictured above only had 98k miles on it and was otherwise perfect. But it was smacked HARD sideways in the left front, knocked both unibody rails over a couple inches, blew both front airbags, completely smashed the PS fluid reservoir, intercooler, washer bottle, coolant bottle, etc. Customer also wanted the ABS assembly for their other car, as it had a bad one. I didn't think I was going to be able to get the ABS unit out of the wreck since the body was literally wrapped around it but with some patience, a prybar, and a Sawzall, I was able to rescue it.

That car has so far already given up its CCM and harness, its horns, the driver door window switch, its antenna, its radio, and a caliper, to various other B5s in need. So at least it wasn't a total loss, and if I can make my gasser into a TDI, a few more parts will live on.
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Last edited by oilhammer; September 15th, 2016 at 10:10.
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