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TDI Conversions Discussions on converting non TDIs into TDIS. More general items can be answered better in other sections. This is ideal for issues that don't have an overlap and are very special to swaping engines.

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Old August 18th, 2014, 10:19   #16
nate0031
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Thanks. Yea I'd prefer higher gearing, but from my calculations, the gearing is similar to my MK4 ALH. In 6th, I came out with 2360 RPM at 60 instead of 2240 in the ALH. Can you confirm this? I've never driven the car at highway speeds, so all I have is my spreadsheet, lol. I also got 2750 at 70 for the A6 vs 2610 for the ALH. These seem about right? I'd like them much lower, and will probably re-gear in a few years. They seem acceptable for the time being though.

For engine management, I'm just using the stock ECU with a stage 2 tune, immobilizer delete, DPF and lowpressure EGR delete. Much as TDISyncro and Whitbread did. At this stage, no other modules will be used, and the ECU will not have a VSS signal. As such, it'll have no cruise control for the time being. The stock 2.7t ECU will be maintained to run the cluster, and be fed with sensor data from the CJAA (water temp, oil pressure etc). After I get it running at a basic level, I'm going to start tinkering with my Raspberry Pi and a CAN shield. Ideally, I can use this to broadcast VSS data onto the CAN bus, and otherwise have it act as an interface between the newer ECU's CAN bus and the more standard outputs of this car, a decade the engines senior. My hope is to make a straightforward wiring guide so it's easy for most to make a CR work for their application. If I can get my Raspberry Pie to do as I want, it'd be a cheap way to keep the ECU happy regardless of the chassy, and keep things like cruise control working well.
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Old August 18th, 2014, 10:37   #17
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I always use 2000 RPM as my reference point, so the stock EDU gearbox in the A6 now will be going 52-53 MPH at 2000. An FTF or DQT will be going 65 MPH. It will work fine, you will just want to go to a higher gear once you get on the HWY.
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Old August 18th, 2014, 10:46   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate0031 View Post
Thanks. Yea I'd prefer higher gearing, but from my calculations, the gearing is similar to my MK4 ALH. In 6th, I came out with 2360 RPM at 60 instead of 2240 in the ALH. Can you confirm this? I've never driven the car at highway speeds, so all I have is my spreadsheet, lol. I also got 2750 at 70 for the A6 vs 2610 for the ALH. These seem about right? I'd like them much lower, and will probably re-gear in a few years. They seem acceptable for the time being though.

For engine management, I'm just using the stock ECU with a stage 2 tune, immobilizer delete, DPF and lowpressure EGR delete. Much as TDISyncro and Whitbread did. At this stage, no other modules will be used, and the ECU will not have a VSS signal. As such, it'll have no cruise control for the time being. The stock 2.7t ECU will be maintained to run the cluster, and be fed with sensor data from the CJAA (water temp, oil pressure etc). After I get it running at a basic level, I'm going to start tinkering with my Raspberry Pi and a CAN shield. Ideally, I can use this to broadcast VSS data onto the CAN bus, and otherwise have it act as an interface between the newer ECU's CAN bus and the more standard outputs of this car, a decade the engines senior. My hope is to make a straightforward wiring guide so it's easy for most to make a CR work for their application. If I can get my Raspberry Pie to do as I want, it'd be a cheap way to keep the ECU happy regardless of the chassy, and keep things like cruise control working well.
Why not go to a larger turbo? The A6 is a boat and the quattro is going to require more power to keep cruising. Keeping the stock gearbox will keep the RPMs up where the Cr140 turbo doesnt do so well. Cr170 turbo I would say is a minimum since it breaths a little better up top.
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Old August 18th, 2014, 11:27   #19
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That's definitely the plan in the future. My aim is to have it running within a few weeks, spend whatever time that's required to iron out kinks (cruise control etc), then start saving up for further upgrades once it's running well. Intent being to install an upgraded clutch, taller gears, and turbo at the same time. For the time being, power shouldn't be an issue. The CJAA will be around 180 HP and 330 tq after the tune, and I'm sure the turbo can build plenty enough boost to keep me rolling at 2,800 RPM. Stage 2 dyno plots still have it producing anywhere from 250 to 300 tq at that RPM. Even with the added weight, the A6's power to weight ratio will be better than that of my ALH, and it's actually losing weight with this engine swap. The A6 will weigh 375 more pounds than the Jetta the engine came from. Not to bad I don't think, given the increase in size and addition of AWD. I towed over 1,500 lbs with my ALH, and even it didn't have an issue maintaining 70 on the highway with its stock turbo. Never required a downshift. So I'm confident I'll be happy for now. Very strongly considering compounds for the future though, so I don't give up bottom end with a larger turbo. Especially since a cp4.2 might be an easy bolt on pretty soon.
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Last edited by nate0031; September 19th, 2014 at 06:39.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 09:21   #20
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2800 rpm is extremely high cruise RPM for a diesel. 1900-2100 is the highest I would want to see a diesel spin at cruise.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 10:50   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_DeWitt View Post
2800 rpm is extremely high cruise RPM for a diesel. 1900-2100 is the highest I would want to see a diesel spin at cruise.
80mph on a TDI 5spd B5 trans is over 2800rpm...
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Old August 19th, 2014, 11:22   #22
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80mph on a TDI 5spd B5 trans is over 2800rpm...
And your point being? At 2800 rpm your far outside the best efficiency of the tdi. As a comparison the 6 speed TDI's turn 2300-2400 at 80 mph.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 11:35   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFettig View Post
80mph on a TDI 5spd B5 trans is over 2800rpm...
With my 5 speed FHN I am turning 2500-2550 at 80 MPH
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Old August 19th, 2014, 11:38   #24
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I'd prefer it lower. It'll be changed in time. It'll only be that high when I cruise above 70 MPH, and I rarely do more than 65 currently, which puts it at 2550. I'm not concerned though, as I used to run at 75 everyday in my MK4 ALH. With stock gears it was at 2800 at that speed. It never complained, and I doubt VW would've geared it as such if it would've caused damage. It had nearly 300,000 on it when I sold it, mostly high speed highway, and still ran just great. Ergo I highly doubt those RPM's effect longevity in any significant way. At highway speeds, there's only about a 100-150 RPM difference between this and what the ALH ran. I think it's perfectly acceptable for now. I wouldn't consider 2800 extremely high. Not preferable, but not an extreme. My 7.3 diesel runs 2500 at 70, with factory gears and a much larger engine.

To be more precise, and as I'm sure is known, 1st 2nd and 3rd are the same between the 2.7tt and the TDI variant. If I compare the EDU box to my ALH/02J, I get this:



I'll likely skip 4th much of the time, essentially netting my ratios as this:



This will be corrected in time, and I'll enjoy cruising even more. For now, they're similar enough to what I'm used to, what VW thought appropriate for their older diesel, and I have bigger fish to fry.

Any experience with the windage trays?
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Old August 19th, 2014, 12:14   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwztips View Post
With my 5 speed FHN I am turning 2500-2550 at 80 MPH
Scott, I'm saying it does it, and it does it just fine. I still get decent mileage.

Mine is a DHL trans, diff gearing I guess
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Old August 19th, 2014, 20:38   #26
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Quote:
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I was swapping on the new oil pan yesterday, and just about had a heart attack. The AWM pan wasn't the same. The bolt pattern is the same, but the CJAA pan has sections that extend out beyond the bolt holes to clear the windage tray. Here's a Picture:



After removing the windage tray, I see that the block continues underneath, so there is a straight path and no issue with having a surface to seal against. So one question, what to do about the windage tray? I'm guessing simply cutting the tabs off would not be best. Is there another that will fit with this pan? One out of an ALH maybe?
The cjaa oil pan is the only one that will work with the windage tray. The cbea does not have a windage tray. I am not sure what options in europe have the Windage tray. The tray is a nice to have but your best bet is to eliminate the tray to use the oil pan u have.
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Old August 20th, 2014, 05:11   #27
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Ok. Are there any detrimental effects of not having one? Would I be correct to assume the CBEA does not have one because of the balance shaft module? Thank you TDIsyncro.
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Old August 20th, 2014, 05:31   #28
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Try one from a BRM maybe?
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Old August 20th, 2014, 18:55   #29
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Ok. Are there any detrimental effects of not having one? Would I be correct to assume the CBEA does not have one because of the balance shaft module? Thank you TDIsyncro.
The cbea does not have one. Yes the bs assembly takes up a lot of that room but I also think it was low on the vag priority list for adding to tdi engines. All previois engines did not have them. It is a nice to have because it captures the oil and helps it settle faster. Perhaps they found the new oil spec for cr engines foams up more. If u have the egr and dpf delete I see no reason to stick with the oil spec. Certainly the pd oils have a higher viscosity and never seemed to have foaming issues. This is all just speculation on my part so please take it for what its worth. We are some of the first at playing with the cr engines and that always means some guess work and risk.
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Old January 6th, 2015, 18:12   #30
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bump for a thread update.
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