A5INKY
Vendor , w/Business number
Quick port job. Ha ha, that's funny.Have the guides checked and replace the seals no matter what (7mm). Good time to clean out all the intake port goo and at least do a quick portjob on it.
Where to stop?
- Thread starter Fix_Until_Broke
- Start date
TopherDI
Veteran Member
Yeah ask Robert - send your head to Bill and you might have it back in about a year, or maybe not. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=326601Quick port job. Ha ha, that's funny.
Fix_Until_Broke
Top Post Dawg
To remove the main caps 1 & 5 on an ALH in the car I needed a 17mm socket that had an OD of 0.855" per Whitbread's post. I turned down a cheep china socket like the below and was just able to get to fit.I might be able to get an open end wrench or a crowsfoot on them, but they're tight clearance.
All I can find is socket head capscrews in 12.9 - no hex head like what was in there. This will make installation a snap (and removal if I should ever have to do this again).
I can turn down a socket or use a wrench or whatever to get the existing bolts out - I was more concerned about getting them back in, but the socket head screws elimnate that issue.
Hopefully this helps someone in the future.
Whitbread
Vendor , w/Business number
Glad to hear you got it!
Fix_Until_Broke
Top Post Dawg
Silly as it might sound - maybe putting larger nozzles in and dialing the tune back to the same power level would help make the pistons live longer?
Looking at the pistons, the aluminum looks like it's been almost molten where the injector nozzles spray. There is definately a different texture in that area. #4 was the worst shown below (not sure why all 4 pistons don't show this equally?). A larger nozzle might keep the spray pattern inside the bowl?
On the flip side to that, will injecting the fuel in a shorter duration create higher peak cylinder pressures making the rod bearing wear worse? Potentially retard the injection timing a little?
No changes planned for the immediate future, but just thinking ahead here...
Looking at the pistons, the aluminum looks like it's been almost molten where the injector nozzles spray. There is definately a different texture in that area. #4 was the worst shown below (not sure why all 4 pistons don't show this equally?). A larger nozzle might keep the spray pattern inside the bowl?
On the flip side to that, will injecting the fuel in a shorter duration create higher peak cylinder pressures making the rod bearing wear worse? Potentially retard the injection timing a little?
No changes planned for the immediate future, but just thinking ahead here...
larger nozzels spray the same amount of diesel in a shorter time, what results in less smoke, less thermal stress and better mpg.
I think also pcp will be less because of a much shorter injection with bigger nozzels.
I think also pcp will be less because of a much shorter injection with bigger nozzels.
TDIJetta99
Top Post Dawg
This is consistent with my experience with my truck. The shorter injection event runs cooler & in effect results in a slight timing advance. I'm curios what sort of EGT's you ran during those long heavy tows.
silverbox
Veteran Member
Would going to an 11mm pump from a 10mm also shorten the injection time?
FUB, I dont mean to side track your thread, but since this came up I thought I would ask.
eddie_1
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2004
- TDI
- Jetta Wagon 2003 TDI tuned to 170HP, A6 Wagon 2008 TDI 2.7L tuned to 340HP
1. Better control of start and end of injection
2. More precise control of VNT
I have a rule of thumb, less smokey is symptomatic of better tune for longevity. Less smoke is achieved not only by less fuel, but by timing and by better VNT control to reduce surging.
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
IMHO the best thing you can do to prevent this in the future is to change your driving habits. Keep the engine above 2500 or 3000 RPM when under heavy load. If you're going to tow a lot I'd consider taking out the tall 5th and going back to stock diameter tires (I think you have larger ones).
This thread makes me wonder if our high-revving TDIs are built differently than, say, a Cummins, and need to be treated differently. Also, I've wondered if the additional demands I've put on my own car will shorten its life: maybe if you double power it's simply not going to last as long. IBW is still hanging in there with no known issues or evidence of wear at 260K (head's never been off) but if it blows up today I can't really fault it.
This thread makes me wonder if our high-revving TDIs are built differently than, say, a Cummins, and need to be treated differently. Also, I've wondered if the additional demands I've put on my own car will shorten its life: maybe if you double power it's simply not going to last as long. IBW is still hanging in there with no known issues or evidence of wear at 260K (head's never been off) but if it blows up today I can't really fault it.
turbocharged798
Veteran Member
I say 1650 is too hot. Aluminum melts at 1250 so I wouldn't go much past that for long periods of time.
jasonTDI
TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number
Bing! Winner!
Exactly what I always do. 30K miles of towing bikes all over and never any trouble. The lugging likely caused the damage.
I'd fix and keep. There is the rub with defering repairs to the suspension and other parts. When something else happens you arte in it for a ton of cash at once. Or they get dumped and end up at my shop with an unsuspecting owner on a wild goose chase costing them thousands....not cool. See that a LOT.
Exactly what I always do. 30K miles of towing bikes all over and never any trouble. The lugging likely caused the damage.
I'd fix and keep. There is the rub with defering repairs to the suspension and other parts. When something else happens you arte in it for a ton of cash at once. Or they get dumped and end up at my shop with an unsuspecting owner on a wild goose chase costing them thousands....not cool. See that a LOT.
Yes with a 11mm pumphead you inj the same amount of fuel in shorter time.
My rules are with tdi Tuning use large enough turbo and fuelpump,nozzels. For you HP goals.
Than make the tune smoke free. So you don't go over the mechanical limit of you setup.
Yes driving habits also make a difference.
My rules are with tdi Tuning use large enough turbo and fuelpump,nozzels. For you HP goals.
Than make the tune smoke free. So you don't go over the mechanical limit of you setup.
Yes driving habits also make a difference.
jasonTDI
TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number
I have yet to see a head with over 100K that didn't need guides. I'd be putting in valves as well.Have the guides checked and replace the seals no matter what (7mm). Good time to clean out all the intake port goo and at least do a quick portjob on it
eddie_1
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2004
- TDI
- Jetta Wagon 2003 TDI tuned to 170HP, A6 Wagon 2008 TDI 2.7L tuned to 340HP
Bingo!
TDIJetta99
Top Post Dawg
So the engineers that say it's safe to run a sustained 1650F are all wrong? People forget that the pistons are cooled by oil, and are only subjected to the max combustion temperature for a short time.. This has been discussed in other threads at great length..
Example, skin burns at a temperature of around 120F, but you can wave your hand through the flame of a mapp or propane torch without getting burned at all.. It's all about the amount of time exposed to that sort of temperature..
The best thing to do is to monitor EGT and oil temperature.. If you start seeing oil temperature (measured in the pan) rise over about 275F, back off... It takes about 10 minutes of 1600F EGT at 180hp output to get oil temperatures up there though.. That's a LOOOONG hill with a 3500lb trailer in tow at 75mph in 4th (at least with my car)...
Ski in NC
Top Post Dawg
You can't base limits on egt alone. When changing pumps, nozzles, timing, tunes etc, the delivery of fuel with respect to piston movement changes. If the fuel goes in early, peak cylinder pressures are high, and heat transfer rates to piston and head are also high. Since more heat is transferred to the metal, less heat is in the exhaust so egt actually drops! Yet the engine bits are in more trouble!
If you dyno an engine and record egt peaks, then retard timing, keeping all else equal, the egt goes up and yet fire deck temps drop.
Its a complicated balancing act dialing in a motor, and not all variables are available to view without expensive test gear.
So don't change the engine parameters and then assume that below a certain egt, all is well. More to it.
If you dyno an engine and record egt peaks, then retard timing, keeping all else equal, the egt goes up and yet fire deck temps drop.
Its a complicated balancing act dialing in a motor, and not all variables are available to view without expensive test gear.
So don't change the engine parameters and then assume that below a certain egt, all is well. More to it.
Keebler145
Veteran Member
Just to bust your balls, try waving your hand in front (close range like you say) for more than 5 minutes... bet your hand will still get too hot and you'll pull back or speed up how fast you wave your hand
TDIJetta99
Top Post Dawg
Yes, but hand to flames is subjecting the skin to temperatures 10-20X what the limit of the skin is... it would be like subjecting the pistons to 14000 degrees...Just to bust your balls, try waving your hand in front (close range like you say) for more than 5 minutes... bet your hand will still get too hot and you'll pull back or speed up how fast you wave your hand
TDIJetta99
Top Post Dawg
Have you ever tried to see how high you can get EGT's on a stock ALH? You'll have a hard time getting them over 1100 even holding it to the floor for miles on end...
I'm basing what I say on using my car to tow heavy loads at double stock power output for almost 100k. By heavy loads I mean towing other mk4's hundreds of miles at a time at normal highway speeds, not slowing down going up hills.... When I inspected the pistons at 240k, they looked like new... So did the VNT vanes and exhaust wheel of the turbo.. Crank and rod bearings looked like they had 50k...
If you advance timing to transfer heat to the piston tops, your oil temperatures will rise, retard timing and oil temps drop like a rock but EGT's go through the roof.. A good tune will be a balance between the two and it will live a happy life.. Personally when I tow a lot of weight with mine, I return the timing adaptation to stock and limit throttle to control EGT's..
Fix_Until_Broke
Top Post Dawg
All loaded up
silverbox
Veteran Member
All loaded up? is that your car?
greengeeker
Vendor
FUB - Do you have oil temp gauges? Where was your timing advance set (adaptation)?
manual_tranny
Smyth Performance- Intern
I guess it's too late now, but I thought I would see someone suggest to bore and stroke to 2.1 liters to get more power from 1000-2000? I've been dreaming about putting together a 2.1 ALH with an increased compression ratio and big heavy flywheel. Big IP, BIG injectors, extra-short duration injection. TORQUE.
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Where would you get pistons?
oldpoopie
Vendor
- Joined
- May 14, 2001
- Location
- Portland Oregon
- TDI
- 2001 golf gl, 2006 jetta, 1981 ALH swapped rabbit pickup, 1998 beetle
I believe that is basically the motor LCR built. 2 liter pistons with a stroker crank.
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
OK. I was thinking of them as 2 liter pistons.
Fix_Until_Broke
Top Post Dawg
Yep - That's my car.
Fix_Until_Broke
Top Post Dawg
No oil temp gauge but I have one on order am also installing the PD134 oil cooler
I'll have to check adaptation in VCDS but I don't think I've ever changed it. Mechanical timing is (was) at the top of the graph.
I'm going to put a concerted effort to getting cylinder pressure measurements, even if I it is pressures only (no crank angle, just time), will be better than nothing.