Questions for the gasoline VW owners

MrMopar

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Location
Bloomington, IL
TDI
none
I'm looking at getting a new Passat this summer, and perhaps the TDI will be too long to wait for. I'm seriously considering a GLX Passat Wagon with the V-6 engine.

For those of you that own one already, does the engine absolutely require premium unleaded fuel or will it run fine on mid-grade or regular? I'm just interested because all the dealer brochures merely say unleaded fuel with "premium reccommend" in parentheses.

The reason I'm wondering is because VW seems to reccommend premium fuel for all it's engines, even the 2.0L base engine on the Jetta and Golf. I can see requiring premium for a higher compression engine like the W8 or a high boost engine like the 1.8T, but for the regular 2.0L or the V-6 is it required?
 

TDIinRI

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Location
NOT in RI
TDI
2003 GOLF silver
European cars tend to like premium fuel. I would not use 87 octane in any newer European car. On another note, why are you going the V6 route. I highly reccomend the 1.8T for cost reasons. The V6 is significantly more expensive and I don't think its worth it for the extra 20 or so HP. My mom has a Passat 1.8T and it is QUITE fast!
 

MrMopar

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Location
Bloomington, IL
TDI
none
I'm going to do some trailer towing (nothing too heavy) and I wanted an engine that has a little bit higher torque rating and a broader spread of the torque curve. The V-6 fits that nicely, and doesn't loose too much fuel economy over the 1.8T. I know for sure that I'd have to use premium unleaded in the 1.8T and in some places I travel even mid-grade is hard to get. I'd rather have an engine that I know will at least digest regular 87 (or 85) octane fuel without having to worry about huge amounts of knock.
 

dlai

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 6, 2002
Location
The Insane Asylum Known As CA
TDI
2005 Passat, Stonehenge Gray, 2002 Black Golf 5M
I have a 2002 Passat V6 4Motion. I run it with regular unleaded and it does fine. I wouldn't worry about it, since the ECU will compensate for the difference in octane. The V6 does suck gas however. I think because of the weight of the 4Motion system, mileage takes a big hit.

I also had a Jetta VR6 before my TDI and I ran regular unleaded in that for many years. No issues at all...
 

snoopis

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2002
Location
Arlington, TX, USA
TDI
2002 Golf GLS TDI, 5spd
My mom had a Passat with the V6, and at first she was only using mid-grade gas. She eventually switched to premium, and she started getting a little better mpg, as well as not needing any more trips to the stealer. These may or may not be related, but the timing matched the fuel change.

You might want to ask some of the people at Club B5 what they think. IIRC, most of them were 1.8t people, but I'm sure there's some V6 people there as well.
 

GotDiesel?

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 11, 2000
Location
Pacific NW
TDI
2001 Jetta GLS
85 Octane? Do you live or plan to drive somewhere way above sea level?

If so, I would think the 1.8t might be better since the turbo compensates for altitude to a degree.

I haven't driven a new generation Passat so I can't speak first hand about differences between the two engines and the way the car drives with them.

I had a 1988 Saab 9000turbo that recommended premium. I could tell a difference in performance when I ran regular. On hard acceleration it would pull hard until a ping was detected and then back off noticeably. I could hear a few knocks and then the power would drop.

But on long trips there wasn't a significant difference in fuel economy.

Engine management has come along ways in the years since that Saab was built and I would imagine you wouldn't ever hear a knock on a modern engine.

One other caveat though, I have read that when the spark timing is retarded to prevent knock on lower grades of fuel the engines tend to produce more heat. It would be more likely to happen when you were towing something and I would be inclined to fuel it with premium under those circumstances.

Good luck.
 

Frankenwagen

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Location
NH
It is perfectly fine to run regular unleaded in any of the current VW's. They all have a knock sensor to compensate for different types of gas.

The premium gas has less tendency to cause pre-ignition in the combustion chamber. Ironically, the higher octane gas has less thermal energy per volume than the cheap stuff. The reason everyone experiences more accelleration is due to the spark timing getting advanced which increases power from the motor and improves acceleration.

I have a knock sensor on the 1.8l gas engine I installed in my Vanagon. I tried using both types of fuel for doing the same 100 or more mile cruises, recording the mileage and gallons used very accurately. The high octane did get more mileage very consistently but it also cost more $$'s for each gallon to get more range. I came to the conclusion that it was actually more economical to use the lower ocatane gas because it was usually sold at lower price points due to market competion. Also, for me, acceleration and Vanagon will always be an oxymoron with the setup I have.
 

Old Navy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 15, 2001
Location
Ozark Hill's in Missouri, USA
TDI
None now, .
If you are traveling & towing were mid or premium can be hard to get then you better stick with a diesel. The new Passat will have 247lbs of torque which will mean you won't even know that trailer is behind you, and getting twice the fuel mileage of the V6 while doing it.
 

jasonTDI

TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Apr 26, 2001
Location
Oregon, WI
TDI
20' RAM 3500 CCLB dually HO/Aisan. 2019 Cherokee 2.0T
My mother too has a v6 4 motion passat and it gets attrocious fuel mileage around town. Like 15 if you are on the gas at all. 17-18 if you aren't. 21-24 hwy.

The car runs like crap on 87 but does ok on 89-93.

I'd personaly get the diesel. The v6 is a complex nightmare of a car. The engine is REALLY crammed in there.
 

MrMopar

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Location
Bloomington, IL
TDI
none
I'll keep all the suggestions in mind.

Right now, I do want a car with 4 motion. I also want a little more torque that the 1.8T provides. I am still not convinced of the reliability of the new TDI until I see a few with some miles on them to evaluate. So with all these qualifiers, I am stuck at the answer being a Passat Wagon GLX.
 

DareDiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Location
Western Washington
Reliability is not an issue with the TDI motors in the new Passat. It is not a new motor. We are getting tried and true hand-me-down technology from the other side of the pond. If there were serious problems they have been found and fixed.
 

jaydhall

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 2, 1999
Location
Aurora Colorado
TDI
2012 Passat SE, 1999 NB, 1999.5 Jetta GLS, 2004 Jetta
If there were serious problems they have been found and fixed. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

You mean like MAF's that break all the time?
 

MrMopar

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Location
Bloomington, IL
TDI
none
[ QUOTE ]
Reliability is not an issue with the TDI motors in the new Passat. It is not a new motor. We are getting tried and true hand-me-down technology from the other side of the pond. If there were serious problems they have been found and fixed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I still question how this engine will show it's longavity with typical North American crap diesel fuel. How will EGR be adapted so as to not clog the intake? How will the PD technology ultimately fare with the current oil debate? These are questions that only time will answer.
 

Metalnerd

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Nov 14, 2000
Location
Greensburg, PA, USA
TDI
96 Passat TDI Storm Grey
My wife's 1.8T runs fine on mid grade. However, with the automatic, we don't get to see the same low RPM ranges common when driving a stick.

With the 1.8T, tell all your friends to run full synthetic (like Mobil 1 or Amsoil). This month, I saw two 1.8T motors at the dealer with coked, scaly deposits inside the oil pan. The junk flakes off and clogs the oil pump intake screen, starves the engine and bye bye bearings. I wish I had a pic of those oil pans - looked like undercoating.
These owners obviously used cheap oil and left it in there for 15K miles. But it shows you how hot that 1.8T runs to produce 150-180 HP from a 1.8 liter.
 

Lord_Verminaard

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Location
Columbus, OH
TDI
2005 NB TDI
By the way, the Passat TDI's will start showing up in dealerships by the end of the month, they should be worth test driving at least. I dont have any word on 4-motion avaliability or manual transmissions yet...

Brendan
 

cmc

Veteran Member
Joined
May 9, 2002
Location
seattle, wa
i have driven various gas VWs with the VAG-COM connected
to it and observed ignition timing correction numbers.

even the base 2.0 engine in the golf/jetta has some
ignition correction in cool temperatures and 89 octane
fuel, suggesting that if you want to run the car with
full ignition advance you need to run premium.

i did not measure the V6 but with a higher compression
ratio i'd imagine that running with low grade gas would
be even more suboptimal. lower octane gas leads to more
ignition retard (and this can be easily observed with
a VAG-COM) which leads to rougher running (since the
spark fires later) and a "dirtier" burn since there's
less time for the mixture to burn completely and more
waste heat generation. under extreme operating conditions
the extra waste heat will be bad, but not so under
light load.

i've been hearing from the dealer techs that the new
toureag V6 has such a high compression (11.3:1) that
it cannot even cope with 92 octane and the ECU goes into
some hiccup mode with uneven surging power. this
apparently was solved when the owner put some high
octane unleaded aviation fuel into it.

i think that if you want to buy a nice car, you should
give it good fuel.. if you want to save money on fuel
costs you should get the TDI...
 

Bookerdog

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2001
Location
St. Louis, MO
TDI
2000 Golf GL TDI - BLACK
So, since you're looking at the V6 Passat Wagon, you've got to start at a GLX trim level. Base price $31,355 according to VW's site. For a base of $31,785 you can look at the Volvo V70 with the 2.5 liter turbo 5 cylinder. The VW V6 will give you 190hp with 206 ft/lbs of twist, while the Volvo cranks out 208hp and 236 ft/lbs out of less displacement. Here's the real kicker, the Volvo has basically a beautifully flat torque curve, putting out near peak torque from 1500 - 4500 rpm. That sounds pretty familiar to us here in TDI land.

The V70 is every bit as large inside as the Passat wagon, and it even weighs about 100 lbs less. Max rated tow weight is 3300 lbs. The 2.5t has the same EPA MPG rating as the V6 28/20.

Here's my thought. I love the TDI because it's an advanced motor. The VW gassers however are another story. With the exception of the 1.8t, they are grossly underperforming motors from the standpoint of displacement being converted to power. Tweaks and chips are available, but all of them turn your warranty into so much dust. I'd guess it would be far harder to negotiate the price of a V70 down, but at first glance, it really looks like a better car.
 
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