Timing belt, water pump, intake cleaning = $$$ Help!

Hi all,
My 1999.5 TDI Golf is going in for a Timing belt change at Belleville VW, in Ontario, on Tuesday and I've got a few questions that I would appreciate comments on...

I don't have many of the service records, I have some but many were not provided by the previous owner, but I do know that the MAF and TB were replaced at 95000KM and that the previous owner regularly used 5W30 @ 5000KM intervals, rather then synthetic! (These oil chages were done at Kingston VW btw!)

This weekend I will be replacing the fuel, oil, and air filters and will be using Delvac 1, instead of 5W30.
(I've also cleaned out the air filter box snorkel.)


So here's my dilema, and questions to everyone out there:

Belleville VW has already warned me that my water pump will likely need to be replaced, I was hoping to get them to clean out my intake while they were at it.

The TB replacement is already going to hit the pocket book hard , so my question is how difficult would it be to replace the water pump, and clean the intake myself. I'm confident in my abilities, but am not quite sure what is involved. Or if it's even worth the trouble?

What are your suggestions or experiences?

Thanks,
VIC

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The TB replacement is already going to hit the pocket book hard , so my question is how difficult would it be to replace the water pump, and clean the intake myself. I'm confident in my abilities, but am not quite sure what is involved. Or if it's even worth the trouble?

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From my recent TB changing experience, thanks Dog Breath, replacing the water pump added about 10 extra minutes, if that much. It actually appeared to be the easiest part of the TB change. Changing the water pump is almost exactly the same amount of work as doing the TB itself. I would guess they are ripping you off if they ask for more than 1/2 hour extra labor, and that's if they take a break during the water pump change. I would guess they will get a couple of hundred or more for the part, I paid $47 for it from the classified section here on Fred's. You really can't do it separate from the TB change, but I could be wrong, someone pipe up if this isn't true.

You would save many hundreds of dollars and probably have a better job if you can find someone local, or relatively close by that can do a TB. After watching Brian do my TB, I know that there isn't any dealer on the planet that would take the care of someone that you could hook up with here at Fred's. I don't regret for a minute having mine done that way, in fact, I cringe thinking of all the people that don't have that option.

I believe cleaning the intake is relatively easy to do one's self, but takes a good deal of time and is messy.

Just my thoughts, if anyone has a differing opinion, or knows I missed something, please post the facts. NO flames required.

Mike /images/graemlins/cool.gif

I would do the water pump and anything else that needs doing when it is all apart. Do it only once, do it wright.[Dieseltwo,Bradford,Ont.,Can..]

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MaxThrust said: (snip) From my recent TB changing experience, thanks Dog Breath, replacing the water pump added about 10 extra minutes, if that much. It actually appeared to be the easiest part of the TB change. Changing the water pump is almost exactly the same amount of work as doing the TB itself.

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__. True, you basically have to take the end of the engine off to do the timing belt and you have to take the end of the engine off to do the water pump. Most of the people who have done these TB changes for a while have seen water pumps starting to leak (indicating that they're going bad) by the time of the second change.

__. As long as the covers, belts, sprockets, etc. are off the engine, it's as easy as Max says. If you don't change the water pump and the pump starts to leak later, you have to pay for the same amount of labor to change the pump as you did for the TB alone. Add to this that the pumps sometimes take out the TB when they fail (bending valves, crunching pistons, etc.) -- you *really* don't want that pump to fail. As Max says, you shouldn't be charged for more than a token amount of labor to do the water pump -- and if they charge you a a lot of money for the pump itself, they're ripping you off.

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I believe cleaning the intake is relatively easy to do one's self, but takes a good deal of time and is messy.

Just my thoughts, if anyone has a differing opinion, or knows I missed something, please post the facts. NO flames required. Mike /images/graemlins/cool.gif

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__. Nope, no flames. You're exactly right on both your suggestions.

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VIC said:
The TB replacement is already going to hit the pocket book hard , so my question is how difficult would it be to replace the water pump, and clean the intake myself. I'm confident in my abilities, but am not quite sure what is involved. Or if it's even worth the trouble?


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I called this morning and got a $140CDN quote for the water pump, on top of the $449CDN quote for the TB replacement.

Does this seem reasonable?
VIC

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VIC said:
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VIC said:
The TB replacement is already going to hit the pocket book hard , so my question is how difficult would it be to replace the water pump, and clean the intake myself. I'm confident in my abilities, but am not quite sure what is involved. Or if it's even worth the trouble?


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I called this morning and got a $140CDN quote for the water pump, on top of the $449CDN quote for the TB replacement.

Does this seem reasonable? VIC

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__. Yeah, that's pretty reasonable for a stealer (if they're good -- NO price is good if they're going to do a sloppy job). I've known people who have paid ~$900(US) for a TB with water pump, but they also were getting ripped off unmercifully.

Timing belt, water pump, intake cleaning = $$$ He

That's real good, considering my quote from the dealer was $890 US dollars for a TB/WP.

Timing belt, water pump, intake cleaning = $$$ He

If that engine has been run on dino oil and you put in synthetic, be prepared to have to change it again 'real soon'. The synthetic will act as a detergent and will clean the accumulated 'sludge' out of the engine and deposit it in the oil filter, among other places.

Timing belt, water pump, intake cleaning = $$$ He

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weedeater said:
If that engine has been run on dino oil and you put in synthetic, be prepared to have to change it again 'real soon'.

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Interesting, I hadn't thought of that. What do you suggest I do? I've already purchased 2x4L jugs of Delvac 1 @ ~$36CDN each but if I'll have to replace the oil soon, I'd rather not spend that much money. I can get my hand's on less expensive Rotella T for ~$18CDN. Would that produce the same "cleansing" effect?

Also, how soon is soon? Are we talking 5000KMs?

Thanks for your advice,
Vic

Timing belt, water pump, intake cleaning = $$$ He

why not just add an engine flush detergent into the oil a few minutes before your oil change? Dont Drive with the flush in of course

Timing belt, water pump, intake cleaning = $$$ He

A few things. I had my timing belt done at Belleville VW although in Cobourg. The best dealership I have come across so far. I paid in the spring for the water pump $125 and $45 for extra labour plus 1 litre of G12. They did a fantastic job. I buy my oil at Petro Canada oil dealership, the guys that deliver oil to houses. $20 I think for 4 Litres of 5W40 synthetic. To do your own oil changes, go to home depot and buy some refrideration copper pipe (about 30inches max)and a pump that goes on a regular drill. Buy the fittings as needed. Buy some plastic clear hose and stick the copper in the dipstick and turn on the drill. Oil comes out in a few minutes. Use a good quality high speed 110 v drill. They are faster than the portables. This is a way to do oil changes on the cheap. You could buy some fancy pumps that are mentioned here, but they take up space and the cheap way is just as good. Good Luck. Preventive maintence done properly will pay in the long run!
Good Luck

It sounds like the VW dealer you are going to is one of the good ones, and their prices seem reasonable compared to others. I would add my vote to the others who suggest doing the timing belt and water pump at the same time.

Also, confirm that they will be replacing the old 40k/60k timing belt with the new 80k/100k timing belt, including new tensioners, etc. Do it all now and you won't have to worry about the TB or water pump for another 80-100k miles.

Yes, there are club members who will do it a little cheaper. But if the dealership screws it up and wrecks your engine, they will owe you a new one. Even if they do everything perfectly, if there's a faulty part that causes the TB to fail, the dealership will still pay for replacement. A club member is not going to be responsible for problems caused by a faulty part.

Timing belt, water pump, intake cleaning = $$$ He

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wolfsburg said: (snip) To do your own oil changes, go to home depot and buy some refrideration copper pipe (about 30inches max)and a pump that goes on a regular drill. Buy the fittings as needed. Buy some plastic clear hose and stick the copper in the dipstick and turn on the drill. Oil comes out in a few minutes. (snip)

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__. That's exactly what I did. $11 US for everything needed (although the outlet hose was free since my aunt ran over her garden hose with the lawn mower). Works like a charm.

Timing belt, water pump, intake cleaning = $$$ He

I am coming due for the 60k mile T/B change. I, too, will change out the water pump, as it makes sense to do it all at once. I was quoter two different prices. The first $800 U.S. w/o pump, and the second, $550 U.S. w/o pump. The second dealer says the pump is $125 U.S. with exchange. I am still trying to understand the big gap in prices for the same work.

Timing belt, water pump, intake cleaning = $$$ He

The difference is the $250/mo boat payment that the first dealer has to make. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Timing belt, water pump, intake cleaning = $$$ He

VIC, as someone who has had dealers do these procedures, the prices you were quoted are quite reasonable. I say let the dealer do it, and you have a guarantee to back up the job.

Timing belt, water pump, intake cleaning = $$$ He

Ahhhh. That explains the difference. And I didn't even get an invite to go out on the boat. What arrogance!