tditom
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2001
- Location
- Jackson, MI
- TDI
- formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
no- i just moved to SA. where is diesel toys?
http://www.dieseltoyz.com/no- i just moved to SA. where is diesel toys?
I work in Canton and I haven't seen it anywhere around, but I usually fill up on the highway. I'll see if I can check the BP on Portage for ya.I've been looking for premium diesel near Canton as I'm getting ready to move there. I was excited to see some possibility there with the BP on Portage (even though its marked with an "?") I'll try to verify it once I get there.
Yeah - it can be that much difference... i remember reading elsewhere on these forums that in general diesel in europe has a higher cetane that that avaialble in the USA / CanadaOn a tangent: are there different standards for the definition of 'cetane nr' between US and EU?
Regular diesel sold here is 51 or 53 cetane, I just switched to "premium" diesel to try it out. They say it's 55 cetane.
What gives? The difference can't be that much (you talk about 40-45 cetane..)?
Ok, I've added it to the map. Thanks for the update.I wanted to add another station that sells "premium" fuel to this list.
Chum's Corner Shell
948 US Highway 31 S
Traverse City, MI 49684
I'm currently on vacation here in this beautiful corner of Michigan. I'm suspicious of most "premium" claims but there was actually a man inside the station who could answer my questions. He said they put their own additives in fuel that bring it up to premium level (they sell regular D2 as well). He said they also test for water in the tanks. This is a truck fueling facility, with a non credit premium pump in back, but there are also diesel pumps selling premium among the gas pumps on the other side. Auto diesel is all premium, he said.
I have been filling up at this station ever since i purchased my TDI little over a year ago. Its great fuel and always 3 cents more than the regular D2 in the area. Just down 37 a few more miles (Towards town across from the Mall) is another shell that sells Premium Diesel as well and is definitely a cleaner station (Not a truck stop) but i usually go to the Truck stop as its a higher volume station.I wanted to add another station that sells "premium" fuel to this list.
Chum's Corner Shell
948 US Highway 31 S
Traverse City, MI 49684
I'm currently on vacation here in this beautiful corner of Michigan. I'm suspicious of most "premium" claims but there was actually a man inside the station who could answer my questions. He said they put their own additives in fuel that bring it up to premium level (they sell regular D2 as well). He said they also test for water in the tanks. This is a truck fueling facility, with a non credit premium pump in back, but there are also diesel pumps selling premium among the gas pumps on the other side. Auto diesel is all premium, he said.
Thanks, Justin. Yes, we always enjoy TC and the rest of the area. No other place like it. We could go anywhere on vacation and we seem to always choose that corner of Michigan. It's got everything. Interesting how it's grown and changed over the years. We drove home on Saturday. Filled up again at Chum's on our way out of town. I'll have to check out that other Shell next year. It's definitely closer to where we stay. I wonder what kind of additive package they put in their fuel and why more stations don't do this.I have been filling up at this station ever since i purchased my TDI little over a year ago. Its great fuel and always 3 cents more than the regular D2 in the area. Just down 37 a few more miles (Towards town across from the Mall) is another shell that sells Premium Diesel as well and is definitely a cleaner station (Not a truck stop) but i usually go to the Truck stop as its a higher volume station.
However i did want to mention that i posted the Shell station you mentioned above back in post 64 but i guess i didnt provide enough info to get it added.
Anyways hope you are enjoying my hometown
-Justin
I've tried it before and you have to be careful. In my case, out of the first 5 stations, two do not have diesel and never did.Has anybody used this handy-dandy Diesel Tracker tool? It gives you Diesel fuel pumps and prices by zip codes
http://tdi.vw.com/diesel-tracker/
And in my case it only lists one of the stations in my town as having diesel, when we have more like 17 diesel stations to choose from, plus a company that makes B50 locally.I've tried it before and you have to be careful. In my case, out of the first 5 stations, two do not have diesel and never did.
I saw this listed on the map, but highly doubt there is anything 'premium' about the diesel fuel there. For one, many stations that used to carry BP Diesel Supreme still have the old label on their pumps.I've been looking for premium diesel near Canton as I'm getting ready to move there. I was excited to see some possibility there with the BP on Portage (even though its marked with an "?") I'll try to verify it once I get there.
Map has been updated, thanks for your contribution. Sorry for the long delay.Happened upon this BP station in Fredericksburg last week. 47 cetane label and the guy behind the counter was friendly. Thanks for the map!
I'm not dedicated enough to go testing my own fuel. I've had good luck with BP stations that used to be Amoco. Many of them still carry "Amoco Premium Diesel" and have stickers (or owners) that confirm 47 cetane.I saw this listed on the map, but highly doubt there is anything 'premium' about the diesel fuel there. For one, many stations that used to carry BP Diesel Supreme still have the old label on their pumps.
BP DIESEL SUPREME no longer exists, and hasn't for several years.
It used to be quite an awesome product, and stood above all other diesel products by a long shot. For the most part, diesel fuel is all the same, hate to tell you brand lovers that - but it all goes through the same pipelines from the refineries to the terminals, at which point it's loaded into separately branded trucks and additized or not at that point. That means that 99% of the stations in your area have fuel with the same cetane level, and perhaps more or less detergency additives in it depending on that brand's particular package. Cetane booster is not cheap, and you can bet they are more than likely not adding any.
BP diesel supreme used to be more refined than regular diesel (at the time it was close to being ULSD when the rest was 500ppm LSD), 50 cetane minimum, great additive package, etc. It was kept in separate pipelines/trucks from refinery all the way to the pump. These days, if anything is labeled BP Supreme it's simply the old 'Amoco Powerblend' which is normal #2 diesel with an additive package that bumps it up to 47 cetane. Perhaps better than regular number 2, although probably not if it has a much higher price.
For the original poster with the BMW - if you're concerned the best thing to do is go to avlube or similar, and buy a few diesel fuel test kits. Take samples of your local stations and get them analyzed. Back when I had an E-Class diesel I did this and the results were very surprising, both in terms of cetane and more importantly (in my opinion) the amount of dirt/particulate matter in the fuel. Finding a clean diesel station is much more valuable than high cetane dirty fuel - you can always use additives to bump up the cetane, but fuel filters only do so much to prevent injector wear etc.
Amoco Premier Diesel is 47 cetane as well: http://www.bp.com/heliospower/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9028298&contentId=7051507Here's a link from BP's site, click on more info to see the charts, and yah, their Supreme is 47...
http://www.bp.com/heliospower/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9032242&contentId=7059241
but a pump not on the map has Supreme. Ive been going there for a few years, with apparently good results... my clear fuel lines under the hood look brand new on a 2002 Jetta with 90k on it. The address is:
4314 W MOUNT MORRIS RD
MOUNT MORRIS, MI 48458
Hope it helps someone
The bottom line is that some states have very lax standards for diesel fuel labeling. Thank goodness this part of Texas uses TxLED (48 cetane minimum), I'm halfway to premium just on that . I add my own Power Service for lubricity and call it good.From: Mr. X
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 2:29 PM
To: tditom
Cc: Ms. P
Subject: RE: premium diesel
As long as the fuel meets minimum ASTM standards for diesel, by law we do not regulate different grades of labeling. Under current law it would not be a violation to sell minimum standard diesel as "premium."
******************************************
From: tditom
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 2:02 PM
To: Mr. X
Subject: RE: premium diesel
Thank you very much for your prompt reply.
When you say that Texas does not enforce the labeling, do you mean that a retailer can label a pump anything they want?
******************************************
From: Mr. X
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 1:54 PM
To: tditom
Cc: Ms. P
Subject: RE: premium diesel
Mr. tditom,
"Premium Diesel" (or super, supreme, plus, or premier) is defined by the National Conference of Weights and Measures (NCWM) Handbook 130. Texas does not enforce this standard but does adopt the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) standard D975-08a for diesel fuel.
Although Texas does not enforce the labeling of premium diesel, it is defined by NCWM to have a higher cetane number than ASTM minimums. NCWM requires a minimum 47 cetane number for premium diesel. ASTM requires a minimum of 40 for all diesels.
Should you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.
Regards,
Mr. X
Coordinator for Fuel Quality
Regulatory Programs Division,
Texas Department of Agriculture
******************************************
From: tditom
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:06 AM
To: Ms. P
Subject: RE: premium diesel
Hi Ms. P-
Thanks for following up on my request. Sorry to take so long to get back to you.
The station in question is located at 10683 HUEBNER RD, SAN ANTONIO, TX 78240-1307. Both diesel pumps are labeled as “premium diesel”.
Does Texas have criteria for “premium diesel”? Thanks very much for your time.
-tditom
******************************************
From: Ms. P @TexasAgriculture.gov]
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 2:58 PM
To: tditom
Cc: Regulatory
Subject: RE: premium diesel
Mr. tditom,
Thank you for contacting the Texas Department of Agriculture (TDA.) I believe the pump was mislabeled. If you would provide the name of the station, physical address, city, and pump number, I'll have an inspector take a look and contact you with the inspections results.
Best regards,
Ms. P
Coordinator for Weights & Measures
Texas Department of Agriculture
**********************************************
From: tditom
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 2:49 PM
To: Texas Department of Agriculture
Subject: premium diesel
Dear Sir-
I have seen a diesel pump labeled as Premium Diesel in San Antonio. I asked the clerk behind the counter at this station and they had no clue what was premium about that fuel. What are the requirements for diesel fuel to labeled as premium in Texas?
Thanks for your time.
-tditom
If I understood his reply:I saw a Shell pump marked as 'Premium Diesel' here in San Antonio. I decided to find out what the criteria was for this labeling here in Texas. Here is the ensuing chain of emails (start at the bottom for chronological order):
The bottom line is that some states have very lax standards for diesel fuel labeling. Thank goodness this part of Texas uses TxLED (48 cetane minimum), I'm halfway to premium just on that . I add my own Power Service for lubricity and call it good.
I don't think you are out of the woods yet. I contacted these same companies and asked the same sorts of questions. The TXled has an out for them to use treated fuel that isn't 48 cetane.Thank goodness this part of Texas uses TxLED (48 cetane minimum), I'm halfway to premium just on that . I add my own Power Service for lubricity and call it good.
If you live in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio or in any of the counties listed in the above link, you have min 48 cetane diesel. . This is supported by information on Chevron's siteMr. tditom,
TxLED diesel is regulated by the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ). For more information on their regulations you may refer to their website: http://www.tceq.texas.gov/airquality/sip/cleandiesel.html.
The TCEQ rule covering low emission diesel applies to the eastern half of the state. It requires 48 cetane fuel.
The Lubricity standard / wear scar standard of 520 microns max is the standard adopted by Texas. TDA conducts random and complaint sampling of diesel fuel across the state. However, our current laboratory contract does not include the test for lubricity.
Regards,
Mr. X
Coordinator for Fuel Quality
Regulatory Programs Division,
Texas Department of Agriculture
From: tditom
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 2:55 PM
To: Mr. X
Subject: RE: premium diesel
Thank you very much for clearing this up for me, Mr. X. It can sometimes be a challenge to operate a diesel car here in the US J.
Please clear up a couple of more things:
·Is all on-road diesel sold in Texas ‘TxLED’, or just that sold in large metropolitan areas like Houston and San Antonio?
·Is TxLED 48 cetane fuel?
·Are period checks performed on random sampling of retail diesel including the High Frequency Reciprocating Rig (HFRR) wear scar?
·Is the standard for HFRR maximum wear scar in Texas 520 microns?
Thanks again for your help!
Best regards,
tditom
Yes- this is before s15 was introduced, but the cetane spec did not change with sulfur reduction.TxLED fuel is basically the same as California Air Resources Board (CARB) diesel fuel, with one additional specification. Like California, Texas requires that low emission diesel (LED) has sulfur content no greater than 500 ppm, and an aromatics content no greater than 10 volume percent. In addition, Texas requires a minimum cetane number of 48. The alternative low aromatics diesel (ALAD) formulations that have been certified by CARB are also acceptable for TxLED. Finally, Texas has protocols whereby alternative formulations that provide equivalent emissions benefits to LED can be certified. TxLED is required to be used in both on-highway vehicles and in non-road agricultural and construction equipment.
It's all goodBackground
Area(s) affected: HGB, BPA, DFW, Anderson, Angelina, Aransas, Atascosa, Austin, Bastrop, Bee, Bell, Bexar, Bosque, Bowie, Brazos, Burleson, Caldwell, Calhoun, Camp, Cass, Cherokee, Colorado, Comal, Cooke, Coryell, De Witt, Delta, Falls, Fannin, Fayette, Franklin, Freestone, Goliad, Gonzales, Grayson, Gregg, Grimes, Guadalupe, Harrison, Hays, Henderson, Hill, Hood, Hopkins, Houston, Hunt, Jackson, Jasper, Karnes, Lamar, Lavaca, Lee, Leon, Limestone, Live Oak, Madison, Marion, Matagorda, McLennan, Milam, Morris, Nacogdoches, Navarro, Newton, Nueces, Panola, Polk, Rains, Red River, Refugio, Robertson, Rusk, Sabine, San Jacinto, San Patricio, San Augustine, Shelby, Smith, Somervell, Titus, Travis, Trinity, Tyler, Upshur, Van Zandt, Victoria, Walker, Washington, Wharton, Williamson, Wilson, Wise, and Wood counties.
Start date: October 1, 2005
Expiration/End date: None
Applicability Period: All Year
Source type: Mobile Source
Emission(s) targeted: Nitrogen Oxides (NOx)
Rule/Citations: 30 TAC 114, Subchapter A, §114.6 ( PDF)( HTML ) and Subchapter H, Division 2, §§114.312-114.319 ( PDF)( HTML )
Description: The goal of the TxLED program is to lower emissions of NOx and other pollutants from diesel-powered motor vehicles and nonroad equipment. It applies to diesel fuel producers, importers, common carriers, distributors, transporters, bulk terminal operators, and retailers. The rule covers 110 counties in the eastern half of Texas, including the ozone nonattainment areas of Beaumont-Port Arthur, Dallas-Fort Worth, and Houston-Galveston-Brazoria. The rule requires that diesel fuel as defined under 30 TAC §114.6 produced for delivery and ultimate sale to the consumer –for both on and nonroad use – must contain less than 10 percent by volume of aromatic hydrocarbons and must have a cetane number of 48 or greater. Some compliance options are allowed.
Thanks for the link. The replies I got from Shell & Exxon/Mobil were rather generic. I told them I live in Texas, they didn't mention minimum 48 cetane.Here are my follow up questions/answers with the Coordinator for Fuel Quality of the Texas Department of Agriculture:
If you live in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio or in any of the counties listed in the above link, you have min 48 cetane diesel. . This is supported by information on Chevron's site
Yes- this is before s15 was introduced, but the cetane spec did not change with sulfur reduction.
CountryMark Premium-R is all I use these days. http://www.countrymark.com/pdr.cfmIn case it hasn't been mentioned, CountryMark, a refinery in Indiana, supplies many stations in Indiana (and one in Ohio - Greenville).
The closest station to Chicago is 52 miles away in Lake Village IN.
There is a station 34 miles from the center of Cincinnati (Brookville IN).
The station is Constantine MI is 32 miles from Kalamazoo.
The Corydon IN station is 22 miles from Louisville KY.
This search tool reveals the stations. I don't know if they all carry both grades of premium diesel, but since the lower of the two grades is 50 cetane, it doesn't matter, eh?