Engine after tune longevity

joep1234

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Jan 2, 2014
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former '04 Beetle TDI, now 2x '15 Audi Q5 TDI's, 2007 Dodge Ram 4x4 6.7
I have a stock '04 Beetle with a DSG and 200k miles on the clock. I have put the last 55k on it and had to replace the DSG at 148k when I bought it. Car runs great but I have the fever for a little more power. Am I asking for trouble or is there anything to worry about? The VW guru that did my last timing belt said to wait until I need a new turbo because a tune would eat my turbo for lunch. What do you guys say?
 

AndyBees

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Southeast Kentucky
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Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Prolly depends on how you drive it.

The Turbo on my ALH engine seems to be handling a Stage 1 Malone Tune. It's been over 4 and half years, about 60k miles and about 24k miles was pulling a camper.

IIRC, your BEW engine is 130 hp stock opposed to 90 hp for the ALH. The Stage 1 tune was supposed to have upped the HP to about 110. I could definitely feel the difference. Boost max was about 11 psi before the Tune ... easily 16 to 19 PSI now.

Bottom line, I'm not too worried about my Turbo which has 208k miles on it.
 

h4vok

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Denver (ex MN)
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2003 Jetta TDi 5sp 171k
The turbo on the bew(kp39) is not like the one on the alh(vnt15) it is not as robust is what I have heard. You can definitely tune on it, but the bew stock turbo can boost creep with the extra fuel. Personally I would get a vnt17 first if you already have 200k on the kp39. If the turbo had 100k on it then I would go for it, but not at 200k. My $.02.
 

Owain@malonetuning

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PD jetta wagon
The kp39s aren't in the same league as the vnt15 or 17 in terms of reliability. Average life expectancy on a stock car is probably in the 150-250k mile range whereas VNT15s do 300k+ all the time. Mine decided it wanted to start eating the compressor housing at 180k miles and was an unmodified single owner car. The main reason they fail is due to irregular boost behavior and actuator problems, and owners are none the wiser since without data logging you wouldn't know what kind of boost pressure it was seeing. I've spoken with people who have popped turbos at low mileage on dealer maintained stock vehicles. Once they saw a few logs on the car it was pretty obvious why the turbo failed, they were sustaining 20+ PSI at altitude long term or had actuators that were way out of spec.

I would personally invest in VCDS before a tune, it's a very powerful diagnostic tool. The turbo should run 15 psi stock and 18 tuned, anything more than a momentary spike into the 20s will affect long term reliability. It would also be wise to set aside funds for a vnt17.
 
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Rrusse11

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2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
joep1234,

One of the advantages of a tune, and upgraded turbo, is more power.
What I've found is that you don't "need" the extra all the time, ie., you're not pushing the car's capabilities so frequently. I have a 24psi
tune and a bigger turbo, but rarely push it to its limits.

My take is that by not pushing those parameters on a regular basis, which I certainly found myself doing frequently with a VNT15, I should retain the longevity of the platform. Yes, I needed a clutch too, but now I've got a drive train that operates at 60-70% of its potential 95% of the time. Now I can drive the car "conservatively" with performance that keeps me happy.

My $.02
 

joep1234

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former '04 Beetle TDI, now 2x '15 Audi Q5 TDI's, 2007 Dodge Ram 4x4 6.7
I don't push the car to the redline. The most I have ever seen was 4000rpm. I like the torque that the car has from 1500 to 3500. I rarely push it to the floor but pedal it for the torque. I have an '07.5 Dodge Ram with the 6.7 and drive it the same way. I like the sensation of being pushed back into the seat.
 

Enabled

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2003 Jetta TDI Manual, BMW 328d SW
Low rpm stress of high cylinder pressures is much more dangerous to the engine than trips to higher rpm.
 

AndyBees

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Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Enabled, what are you calling Low RPM (the number)?
 

Enabled

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2003 Jetta TDI Manual, BMW 328d SW
2000rpm +-, but honestly depends how much torque at each rpm.

Oil pressure is higher at higher rpm, pistons don't 'slam' into bearings as hard, etc.

There should be no reason to avoid 4500-5000rpm (when there's power available, and turbo doesn't surge on its own). Much safer than using massive low rpm torque all the time.
 

AndyBees

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Southeast Kentucky
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Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
I'm not sure where peak torque is on a BEW engine, but it is about 1900 RPMs with an ALH engine.

Typically, I see maximum boost between 3200 and 3600 RPMs with the ALH in my Vanagon. I've never had that engine above 3700 RPMs. Cold engine start, the oil pressure is 62 to 72 psi depending on how cold. After a complete warm-up, the pressure is about 28 psi at idle (903 rpms) even with the AC on. IIRC, the pressure is well above 35 psi in the peak torque RPM. I think all those numbers reflect more than adequate oiling, including spray up into the cylinders.

As for my 2000 Jetta, I've only had it to 4000 RPMs a few times. Quickly going through the gears up to 3200 to 3600 RPMs, reaching that maximum boost, keeps the oil in the IC blown out!
 

Enabled

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Depends how it is set up. The point I am trying to make is that high rpm doesn't kill the engines as much as lugging too much on the torque. It honestly depends how it's setup and driven.

My ALH pulls just as hard at low rpm all the way to 5200rpm. It actually accelerates great past 4000rpm, better than if I were to shift into next gear... but that's how I set the tune up. My turbo can take it, safer for the clutch, connecting rods, bearings, and head gasket.


And by the way those are great oil pressures, glad the ALH oil pump is set up that way.
 

joep1234

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former '04 Beetle TDI, now 2x '15 Audi Q5 TDI's, 2007 Dodge Ram 4x4 6.7
I usually go between 3200 to 3800/4000 rpm. The car is faster than letting it run the tach out. I have ran a car just like mine and he was redlining his and I shifted lower and was faster. My car seems to give out when I get into the 4000+ rpms thus considering a tune and this thread.
 

BobnOH

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May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
There are various levels of tune. Your motor should able to take it.
Talk to the chip tuner. I'd say swap in a new turbo, but they are a bit pricey.
But you should have good power at 4000 RPM, maybe something is amiss?
 

joep1234

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former '04 Beetle TDI, now 2x '15 Audi Q5 TDI's, 2007 Dodge Ram 4x4 6.7
Just serviced it 2 weeks ago. New fuel and air filter and an oil change. VCDS says the torsion value is-1 and it has a great bottom end but lacks above 4000 rpm. The IQ values are pretty even and you can hear the fuel pressurize when the key/door are used. Only code is for GP 2 which we confirmed with a test light. Would like to have a new turbo but anything other than stock I will have to have a tune to make it work and don't have the extra for all of it right now(turbo $1200ish and $350-500 for a tune).
 
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stratusair

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Nashua, NH
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05 Jetta TDI Wagon, 02 TDI Sedan, 06 Lib CRD, Kubota, Boeing 737
I realize funds are an issue but I can tell you my kp39 was working well till about 158k miles then crapped out. I made the investment in the vnt-17 with a tune and have about 40k miles on that. It transformed it into a totally different driver, very fun to drive.
 
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