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Road Trips Discussions about road trips you have made with your TDI.

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Old October 1st, 2010, 13:21   #1
DieselJeff
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Default Mt. Washington New Hampshire

I'm taking the family up Mt. Washington tomorrow morning. I haven't been up the mountain in a few years and never been in a car, always gone up on a motorcycle. We'll be taking the baby 2010 Jetta TDI that only has 900 miles on it. Since I'm still well within the breakin period should I do anything in particular.....low or high RPM's or just drive as I normally would?
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Old October 1st, 2010, 13:23   #2
740GLE
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I'd keep it in the 2000-2500 rpm range, that'd be 2 or 3rd. I've never been up either, but I'd like to.

btw take the Kanc over to Conway, if you time it right you can make good time, if not you'll be stuck behind a motor home doing 20. Leave it in gear coasting down the other side, watch you're consumption climb.
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Old October 1st, 2010, 14:30   #3
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Have a nice ride and enjoy the leaves!!
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Old October 1st, 2010, 15:14   #4
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Don't get too upset if it smokes a bit coming back down in a lower gear mine did last time I was up there lot of unburnt diesel. Going up was fun you'll love the torque. Hope it's good and clear for you the views are fantastic take a warm jacket it will be very cold up there this weekend.
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Old October 1st, 2010, 17:30   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselJeff View Post
I'm taking the family up Mt. Washington tomorrow morning. I haven't been up the mountain in a few years and never been in a car, always gone up on a motorcycle. We'll be taking the baby 2010 Jetta TDI that only has 900 miles on it. Since I'm still well within the breakin period should I do anything in particular.....low or high RPM's or just drive as I normally would?
Just drive it normally but follow the Auto Road's instructions. First gear is the ONLY gear you should be using and keep the RPMs around 2500-3000 RPM. Anything above 3000 RPM is a waste and you'll feel the torque fall off. Anything below 2500 RPM is a lot harder on it. 2500 RPM as you climb in first gear is the torquey sweet spot.

In late August I took my 2010 JSW TDI up Mt. Washington. It handled it great with its 6-speed manual transmission and low-end TORQUE. As for break-in I assume your following Drivbiwire's break-in guidelines, right? Basically don't baby it, don't use cruise control for the first 5k miles, drive it like you stole it by practicing frequent and firm application of power over the RPM range. The important thing is to regularly get on the power and LOAD the engine, not just get the RPMs up with a light load on the engine.

As for driving up the Mt Washington Auto Road in your new Jetta TDI, it will be good for it because it will keep the engine loaded on the way up. With my manual tranny, I found staying in first gear as recommended during the climb works best. Maintain around 2500-3000 RPM and you'll be at the recommended speed of 15-20 MPH. What I also do is crank the heater and fan controls to full HOT and max fan speed for extra cooling system capacity. I regulate my own temperature with the windows. When you get to the top and get parked, let it idle for several minutes before shutting it down because it will be thoroughly heatsoaked from a half hour of steady climbing at 15-20 MPH.

On the ride down, I leave it in first gear and stay off the brakes entirely except in a few spots where I briefly get on them hard and come almost to a stop before a major curve. I then let off the brakes and let the car slowly pick up speed again on its own. If I've got somebody coming down a little faster than I am, I use one of the turnouts along the way and let them pass. I'm not in a hurry at all. I once had somebody in a Honda Pilot SUV on my butt and I could smell his very hot brakes when I pulled over to let him go by. I could tell that driver doesn't know how to drive on the Mt. Washington Auto Road.

Manual trannies are best for the Mt.Washington Auto Road. My brakes weren't hot at all when I got to the bottom.

For anybody who has never driven up Mt. Washington before, the road is a steep, narrow, winding mountain road with no guardrails and steep dropoffs near the edge of the road. Rapidly changing weather and road conditions at different elevations also part of the driving experience. The drive is not for the faint of heart if these things bother you or if you're afraid of heights. Guided tours are available. The total length of the drive is just under 8 miles.

Mt. Washington Auto Road site: http://www.mountwashingtonautoroad.com/

I'm thinking about going up there tomorrow too! I'm watching the weather and summit forecasts carefully. Maybe we'll meet up.

Mount Washington Observatory site: http://www.mountwashington.org/
Current summit conditions and forecast: http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php
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Last edited by n1das; October 2nd, 2010 at 10:51. Reason: D'Oh!
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Old October 1st, 2010, 18:07   #6
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Originally Posted by White Crow View Post
Don't get too upset if it smokes a bit coming back down in a lower gear mine did last time I was up there lot of unburnt diesel. Going up was fun you'll love the torque. Hope it's good and clear for you the views are fantastic take a warm jacket it will be very cold up there this weekend.
It's actually not unburned fuel if your decelerating in gear since no fuel is injected whenever the engine is in an over-run condition like when engine-braking down a hill. Since there's no boost and the intake is somewhat under a vacuum during engine-braking, some oil inevitably gets past the turbo seals and accumulates in the intercooler. Some oil also gets past the turbo seals and into the exhaust system on the exhaust side of the turbo.

When you finally get out onto the main road (Route 16), you need to get on the power and accelerate at WOT up to ~ 4000 RPM in each gear to blow the excess oil out of the intercooler and intake. The combination of boost and high airflow will atomise the oil as it passes thru the intercooler before it reaches the engine. With an older TDI (prior to 2009), expect to see a lot of smoke behind you in your rearview mirror when you get on the power. Since the engine has been essentially *OFF* for a while (no fuel injected) due to engine braking while descending the mountain, the entire intake system will be nice and COLD and you'll love the extra power you'll have during the hard run at WOT.

So don't be afraid to get on the power when you get back onto Route 16 after coming down the mountain. It's a part of doing TDI preventive maintenance.
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Last edited by n1das; October 1st, 2010 at 18:21.
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Old October 1st, 2010, 19:46   #7
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We'll be loading up and leaving at 9am. Maybe we'll see you up there. Look for a '10 Jetta Sedan Graphite Blue.
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Old October 2nd, 2010, 06:19   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n1das View Post
It's actually not unburned fuel if your decelerating in gear since no fuel is injected whenever the engine is in an over-run condition like when engine-braking down a hill. Since there's no boost and the intake is somewhat under a vacuum during engine-braking, some oil inevitably gets past the turbo seals and accumulates in the intercooler. Some oil also gets past the turbo seals and into the exhaust system on the exhaust side of the turbo.

When you finally get out onto the main road (Route 16), you need to get on the power and accelerate at WOT up to ~ 4000 RPM in each gear to blow the excess oil out of the intercooler and intake. The combination of boost and high airflow will atomise the oil as it passes thru the intercooler before it reaches the engine. With an older TDI (prior to 2009), expect to see a lot of smoke behind you in your rearview mirror when you get on the power. Since the engine has been essentially *OFF* for a while (no fuel injected) due to engine braking while descending the mountain, the entire intake system will be nice and COLD and you'll love the extra power you'll have during the hard run at WOT.

So don't be afraid to get on the power when you get back onto Route 16 after coming down the mountain. It's a part of doing TDI preventive maintenance.
OK let me ask this the pump at idle asks for the RPM's to be 903 you force it to a higher RPM doesn't the pump still want to inject enough fuel to keep it at idle? I just don't get how it will shut off all the fuel.
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Old October 2nd, 2010, 10:28   #9
n1das
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OK let me ask this the pump at idle asks for the RPM's to be 903 you force it to a higher RPM doesn't the pump still want to inject enough fuel to keep it at idle? I just don't get how it will shut off all the fuel.
Search "defueling" or "de-fueling".

All fueling goes to zero whenever the engine is in an over-run condition and is controlled by the ECU. The quantity adjuster (QA) collar inside the pump is able to cut fueling totally off when the ECU requests it. The engine is essentially "off" and MPGs are "infinite" as zero fuel is being injected when decelerating in gear while RPMs are above idle and your foot is off the pedal.

Fear not, as the pump still has plenty of lube by fuel in the high pressure stage when "off". Fuel still moves inside the pump even if all fueling has been cut off. The collar in the QA mechanism is used to expose or block an internal "short circuit" exit path from the high pressure stage as the plunger moves during each injection event. When maximum fueling is requested (at WOT for example under load), this exit path remains blocked by the collar as the plunger moves and the maximum quantity of fuel is forced out to an injector. For zero fueling, the exit path remains exposed all the time so all fuel simply gets returned inside the pump instead of being forced out to an injector. In between zero and max fueling like in normal driving, the QA collar is positioned somewhere in the middle of its range so the exit path gets exposed after the plunger has moved a certain amount. As the plunger continues to move, the remaining quantity of fuel gets returned inside the pump instead of being forced out to an injector. The end result is a precise amount of fuel is pushed out to an injector during each injection event ranging from none to max and controlled by the ECU.

Bottom line is all fueling goes to zero whenever the engine is in an over-run condition at any RPM.
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PM - https://sites.google.com/view/lmarzccm/home
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Ozone Precursors - https://sites.google.com/view/lorenmarz-ccm/home
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Last edited by n1das; October 2nd, 2010 at 11:25. Reason: D'Oh!
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Old October 2nd, 2010, 10:44   #10
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Originally Posted by DieselJeff View Post
We'll be loading up and leaving at 9am. Maybe we'll see you up there. Look for a '10 Jetta Sedan Graphite Blue.
I checked the summit forecast late last night and early this morning and decided to postpone our trip until Sunday. It looks like you're in the clouds now. The summit forecast for Sunday says it will be in the clear under mostly sunny skies. It will still be windy and cold. I've found from experience that the observatory's summit forecast tends to be VERY accurate however it's only a 1 day forecast so I check it often and right up until the last minute before heading out.

On a totally clear day you can see into 4 states (ME, NH, VT, NY) and Canada. The tops of buildings in Portland ME are visible. The Atlantic Ocean can be seen to the east and the Adirondacks in NY 130 air miles away can be seen to the west. You feel like you're on top of the world there with the 130 mile 360 degree panaoramic view. I normally bring my ham radio gear with me and play radio on the 2 meter and 440 bands while I'm up there.
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PM - https://sites.google.com/view/lmarzccm/home
Air Toxics - https://sites.google.com/view/loren-marz-ccm/home
Ozone Precursors - https://sites.google.com/view/lorenmarz-ccm/home
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Last edited by n1das; October 2nd, 2010 at 11:38. Reason: D'Oh!
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Old October 2nd, 2010, 11:37   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n1das View Post
Search "defueling" or "de-fueling".

All fueling goes to zero whenever the engine is in an over-run condition and is controlled by the ECU. The quantity adjuster (QA) collar inside the pump is able to cut fueling totally off when the ECU requests it. The engine is essentially "off" and MPGs are "infinite" as zero fuel is being injected when decelerating in gear while RPMs are above idle and your foot is off the pedal.

Fear not, as the pump still has plenty of lube by fuel in the high pressure stage when "off". Fuel still moves inside the pump even if all fueling has been cut off. The collar in the QA mechanism is used to expose or block an internal "short circuit" exit path from the high pressure stage as the plunger moves during each injection event. When maximum fueling is requested (at WOT for example under load), this exit path remains blocked by the collar as the plunger moves and the maximum quantity of fuel is forced out to an injector. For zero fueling, the exit path remains exposed all the time so all fuel simply gets returned inside the pump instead of being forced out to an injector. In between zero and max fueling like in normal driving, the QA collar is positioned somewhere in the middle of its range so the exit path gets exposed after the plunger has moved a certain amount. As the plunger continues to move, the remaining quantity of fuel gets returned inside the pump instead of being forced out to an injector. The end result is a precise amount of fuel is pushed out to an injector during each injection event ranging from none to max and controlled by the ECU.

Bottom line is all fueling goes to zero whenever the engine is in an over-run condition at any RPM.
I noticed this with my VagCom when checking my IQ...it goes to zero everytime you let up on the gas on the overun, pretty neat.
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Old October 2nd, 2010, 11:45   #12
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Originally Posted by veedubyoo View Post
I noticed this with my VagCom when checking my IQ...it goes to zero everytime you let up on the gas on the overun, pretty neat.
I forget which measuring block it's in but if you look at fuel consumption you'll see it go to 0.00 L/hr whenever the engine is in an overrun condition.

Anyway, back to thread topic, a drive up the Mount Washington Auto Road in a TDI is a road trip worth taking.
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PM - https://sites.google.com/view/lmarzccm/home
Air Toxics - https://sites.google.com/view/loren-marz-ccm/home
Ozone Precursors - https://sites.google.com/view/lorenmarz-ccm/home
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Old October 2nd, 2010, 11:50   #13
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I just checked the current summit conditions and visibility is now up to 120 miles as of 12:45 PM. Anybody up there today has a good view right now.

Current summit conditions and forecast:
http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php
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Air Toxics - https://sites.google.com/view/loren-marz-ccm/home
Ozone Precursors - https://sites.google.com/view/lorenmarz-ccm/home
General - https://sites.google.com/view/emissions-general/home

Last edited by n1das; October 2nd, 2010 at 11:53.
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Old October 2nd, 2010, 16:59   #14
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OK thanks it is done by the ECU afraid my injector pump knowledge is limited to tractors idle stop w.o.t stop pretty simple. I can see Mt Wash from my window as long as the high pressure holds should be nice tomorrow too be sure to take a warm jacket freezing tonight in the foot hills damn cold on the summit!
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Old October 2nd, 2010, 17:22   #15
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It was a nice clear day up there. The temp was about freezing with a crazy wind chill. We didn't spend much time outside. There was another silver Jetta TDI up there as well. Not sure if he's on this forum but was wearing a green sweatshirt.
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