Gen 3 Phase 1 fix, Test drive impressions

bevo_7

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Location
Austin, TX
TDI
2013 Jetta
2015 Jetta GEN 3 Phase 1 fix test drive, mine and my wife's reactions.

A little background:
1. We own GEN1 2013 Jetta
2. We both drive it like another TDI Forum driver, "drive it like we stole it"
3. Test drove 2 2015 Jetta's Memorial Day weekend, 2015 Jetta SEL, 2015 Golf Sport Wagon.
4. Off the line, 1st gear to 2nd to 3rd, bog bog bog, pedal goes to floor and no positive engine reaction. 4-6 gears have pickup but noticeable less.
5. We were really close on a decision of the Buy Back vs fix due to it being a Gen1. The 3 year old untitled, almost zero miles auto, upgrades, newer technology and ending up with a zero balance loan when all is said and done was attractive, but....
Gen1 fixes may or may appear and at least a Gen3 with an SCR system and fix it may take it many more years down the road vs. having US Congress suddenly deciding non-SCR systems have to get off the road. Sorry, I digress and is worthy of a much longer discussion.

Our test drive comments:
(now we both realize VW had to make changes to come up with a fix having said that, we both question other Forum posters comments about not seeing and difference in performance, really!!).

1. First, we've never driven a Gen3 VW with or without Phase 1 fix so we don't know how it performed when we would be stealing it, sorry, and we are taking the other posters comments from a owner of a Gen3 owners perspective. We have no way of knowing if they've had or have a Gen1 to compare to Phase 1 fix.
2. If other forum posters comments are valid in that they see little to no performance differences, we as Gen1 owners are having a lot more fun driving with our Gen1 cars than Gen3, just my 2 cents, totally unimpressed with the Gen3 Phase 1 fix. Liesel, my wife has named our car, chirps from Red lights or a parking lot stop, in 1st gear and continues to pull hard all the way up to 6th gear, up hills/flats doesn't matter, lots of fun!!
3. To continue #2 comments, Could the local dealer have screwed up the fix apply on all their 2015's for sale? Not sure, I'm sure it's a canned software patch like other patches but I don't know.
4. Would the Gen3 patch for Europe be that much different? Is the US fiix that close to Europe's, I saw some posts stating that Gen3 patch for Europe definitely affected performance, (boggy between gears) not sure of all the specifics though.
5. As with other forum posters, my shopping for a replacement has left me underwhelmed in the torque/hp/mpg categories. Now the new Mazda CX-5D might be a player and VW will loose a lot clients if that pans out. Good torque/mpg ratings, but.... no track record, too early to tell.

Anyway, sorry for the long post but was curious if I was the only TDI owner with these test drive results. I read the forums frequently but seldom post.

Anyway just wanted to throw out my observations.
We are back on the fence Buyback vs. fix and will continue to
"drive it like we stole it".
Enjoy your rides..
 

MIXMAN3113

Active member
Joined
May 16, 2017
Location
Pittsburgh
TDI
2011 Golf, 2015 Golf SEL
2015 Jetta GEN 3 Phase 1 fix test drive, mine and my wife's reactions.

A little background:
1. We own GEN1 2013 Jetta
2. We both drive it like another TDI Forum driver, "drive it like we stole it"
3. Test drove 2 2015 Jetta's Memorial Day weekend, 2015 Jetta SEL, 2015 Golf Sport Wagon.
4. Off the line, 1st gear to 2nd to 3rd, bog bog bog, pedal goes to floor and no positive engine reaction. 4-6 gears have pickup but noticeable less.
5. We were really close on a decision of the Buy Back vs fix due to it being a Gen1. The 3 year old untitled, almost zero miles auto, upgrades, newer technology and ending up with a zero balance loan when all is said and done was attractive, but....
Gen1 fixes may or may appear and at least a Gen3 with an SCR system and fix it may take it many more years down the road vs. having US Congress suddenly deciding non-SCR systems have to get off the road. Sorry, I digress and is worthy of a much longer discussion.

Our test drive comments:
(now we both realize VW had to make changes to come up with a fix having said that, we both question other Forum posters comments about not seeing and difference in performance, really!!).

1. First, we've never driven a Gen3 VW with or without Phase 1 fix so we don't know how it performed when we would be stealing it, sorry, and we are taking the other posters comments from a owner of a Gen3 owners perspective. We have no way of knowing if they've had or have a Gen1 to compare to Phase 1 fix.
2. If other forum posters comments are valid in that they see little to no performance differences, we as Gen1 owners are having a lot more fun driving with our Gen1 cars than Gen3, just my 2 cents, totally unimpressed with the Gen3 Phase 1 fix. Liesel, my wife has named our car, chirps from Red lights or a parking lot stop, in 1st gear and continues to pull hard all the way up to 6th gear, up hills/flats doesn't matter, lots of fun!!
3. To continue #2 comments, Could the local dealer have screwed up the fix apply on all their 2015's for sale? Not sure, I'm sure it's a canned software patch like other patches but I don't know.
4. Would the Gen3 patch for Europe be that much different? Is the US fiix that close to Europe's, I saw some posts stating that Gen3 patch for Europe definitely affected performance, (boggy between gears) not sure of all the specifics though.
5. As with other forum posters, my shopping for a replacement has left me underwhelmed in the torque/hp/mpg categories. Now the new Mazda CX-5D might be a player and VW will loose a lot clients if that pans out. Good torque/mpg ratings, but.... no track record, too early to tell.

Anyway, sorry for the long post but was curious if I was the only TDI owner with these test drive results. I read the forums frequently but seldom post.

Anyway just wanted to throw out my observations.
We are back on the fence Buyback vs. fix and will continue to
"drive it like we stole it".
Enjoy your rides..
Thank you for your post. I am in the same boat as you. I have owned a 2011 Golf TDI for 2 years now, just turned 60,000 miles. Last week, I purchased a 2015 Golf SEL with 4,000 miles on it.

I whole heartedly agree with your stance on performance, the 2011 just rips through gears, pulling hard the whole time, all with still getting 42 mpg all day long. The 2015, while nice, just doesn't have that same driving experience, it's not terrible, and actually something I will be able to live with over time ( as I get older) but I will still regret selling the 2011 back to VW, that car is just a blast to drive. Unfortunately, the pricing on the 2015's were just too good to pass up, who knows, maybe this time next year VW will be buying those back as well!
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
Thank you for your post. I am in the same boat as you. I have owned a 2011 Golf TDI for 2 years now, just turned 60,000 miles. Last week, I purchased a 2015 Golf SEL with 4,000 miles on it.

I whole heartedly agree with your stance on performance, the 2011 just rips through gears, pulling hard the whole time, all with still getting 42 mpg all day long. The 2015, while nice, just doesn't have that same driving experience, it's not terrible, and actually something I will be able to live with over time ( as I get older) but I will still regret selling the 2011 back to VW, that car is just a blast to drive. Unfortunately, the pricing on the 2015's were just too good to pass up, who knows, maybe this time next year VW will be buying those back as well!
Plan on the fix.

VW nor anyone, will ever own it but me,.

Until death do I part.
 

Capt. Common Rail

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Location
Whitehouse Station N.J.
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI. DSG turned in ,2014 Passat Tdi se,2015 golf sel dsg
I came up with the same conclusion,the performance just isn't there with the 2015 Tdi.I really wanted to buy one but after 2 test drives on 2 different cars I decided to wait for the Mazda CX-5 diesel.
 

Jedadiah

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Location
Central Kentucky
TDI
Former: '15 Passat TDI SE 6M, '15 Golf S 6M and '10 JSW
Is it a dsg programming issue? I have 2 2015 manual transmission cars , and both have more pep than my 2010 manual. The fix made no performance difference on our Passat, but we are totally in charge of the shift points. I've only ever driven the Golf with the fix, but have driven it back to back with my JSW, and it's quicker.
 

Scongiundi

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Texas
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI (6spd manual), 2015 Jetta TDI SE (6spd manual)
I have also noticed the slight downgrade in performance. I own a 2013 Jetta TDI and recently purchased a 2015 Jetta TDI SE, and it is very apparent. The 2015, while still a nice drive, just lacks that extra oomph that I am used to in the 2013. I wish I could remember how my 2013 was like in the first 1000 miles...I was thinking that maybe this 2015 will improve once broken in. I still only have 400 miles on the odometer.

The 2013 has been by far the best car I have ever owned.

Edit: note that both of mine are 6MTs.
 

flargabarg

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
TDI
2011 Touareg Lux TDI
https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=476157 for 2015 before/after dynos.

Actual dynos say the numbers are higher on the fixed cars. I think what you might be experiencing is that the Gen 1 cars have a sharp peak that falls off quickly, while the Gen 3 cars are limited to a flat torque peak. The second will often feel slower even if it's actually faster.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=323946 for the 2009 comparison.

There is some commentary in that first thread about the accelerator response being tuned differently, which could be contributing. With drive by wire systems the tuning of the pedal feel is a big part of how fast cars feel.
 

Scongiundi

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Texas
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI (6spd manual), 2015 Jetta TDI SE (6spd manual)
https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=476157 for 2015 before/after dynos.

Actual dynos say the numbers are higher on the fixed cars. I think what you might be experiencing is that the Gen 1 cars have a sharp peak that falls off quickly, while the Gen 3 cars are limited to a flat torque peak. The second will often feel slower even if it's actually faster.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=323946 for the 2009 comparison.

There is some commentary in that first thread about the accelerator response being tuned differently, which could be contributing. With drive by wire systems the tuning of the pedal feel is a big part of how fast cars feel.
I think you're right. I paid more attention today as I was driving and came to the same conclusion. The throttle response is different and the torque is there if you press a little harder. It just feels different than the 2013, which was throwing me off.
 

jcart

Veteran Member
Joined
May 17, 2015
Location
Kamloops, BC
TDI
2012 Touareg TDi Malone Stage 2, Rawtek.
I came up with the same conclusion,the performance just isn't there with the 2015 Tdi.I really wanted to buy one but after 2 test drives on 2 different cars I decided to wait for the Mazda CX-5 diesel.
Agreed.... short answer ours is significantly different post fix compared to pre. 4th and especially 5th and 6th with more than 2 people falls on its face. Sending ours back due to this and uncertainty over phase 2 fix.


j
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Agreed.... short answer ours is significantly different post fix compared to pre. 4th and especially 5th and 6th with more than 2 people falls on its face. Sending ours back due to this and uncertainty over phase 2 fix.
j

So the car performs fine until there are more than a couple passengers?
 

scooperhsd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
Kansas City KS
TDI
NB, 2000, RED(5 Speed conversion) 2015 Golf SE
Agreed.... short answer ours is significantly different post fix compared to pre. 4th and especially 5th and 6th with more than 2 people falls on its face. Sending ours back due to this and uncertainty over phase 2 fix.


j

Sorry - you did phase 1 of the fix - no buyback for you.

You want to get rid of the car - that's fine, but VW is NOT required to give you the buyback amount. It is now just a used car.

If you want to "fix" the fix - well now, that's certainly possible, depending on what you want.... the greenie / treehuggers wouldn't like that, but it is certainly an option.
 

bevo_7

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Location
Austin, TX
TDI
2013 Jetta
Seems like this thread has brought forward some good responses.

Was the Gen3 dyno test Kerma did pre/post fix using a Manual or Auto?
I ran thru the posts quickly and may have missed it.

Reading between the lines on this thread I think I see the following:
1. 2015's Gen 3 Manual autos perform better than the Automatics.

I continue to feel I would be totally unsatisfied with the post fix Gen 3 VW automatic, regardless of the mileage it gets. So for now I will wait and hope for a Gen 1 fix. Someone, may have been a moderator made a comment that they had a Gen1 fix like 90 days after dieselgate hit, but fixing Gen3's would get VW more $$ quickly versus having to outlay $$ and time running for 100,000 mile tests for durability. We'll have to wait and see. Comments?

As for the Gen3 +7hp and 13lb torque, it may be there but fail to notice it thru the gear ranges. I'm spoiled with feeling the torque/hp curve in a more consistent graduation thru the gears rather than dumping it in at opportune times. Strictly my opinion and may vary with others.

Enjoy your rides...
 

Scongiundi

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Texas
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI (6spd manual), 2015 Jetta TDI SE (6spd manual)
Seems like this thread has brought forward some good responses.

Was the Gen3 dyno test Kerma did pre/post fix using a Manual or Auto?
I ran thru the posts quickly and may have missed it.

Reading between the lines on this thread I think I see the following:
1. 2015's Gen 3 Manual autos perform better than the Automatics.

I continue to feel I would be totally unsatisfied with the post fix Gen 3 VW automatic, regardless of the mileage it gets. So for now I will wait and hope for a Gen 1 fix. Someone, may have been a moderator made a comment that they had a Gen1 fix like 90 days after dieselgate hit, but fixing Gen3's would get VW more $$ quickly versus having to outlay $$ and time running for 100,000 mile tests for durability. We'll have to wait and see. Comments?

As for the Gen3 +7hp and 13lb torque, it may be there but fail to notice it thru the gear ranges. I'm spoiled with feeling the torque/hp curve in a more consistent graduation thru the gears rather than dumping it in at opportune times. Strictly my opinion and may vary with others.

Enjoy your rides...
I am becoming more convinced that the difference in throttle feel had me fooled into thinking it was less torquey until I figured out that it wasn't going to give me the same response as my '13 with the same amount of pedal force. Once I got used to it, the pickup was very similar. No concerns here.
 

bevo_7

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Location
Austin, TX
TDI
2013 Jetta
Ok, but your still comparing a Manual to Automatic.
I would definitely expect noticeable differences between the two.

If I had a Manual I could probably try and drive around the fix.
Even when I test drove the Automatics with DSG in manual gear mode I was underwhelmed with the fix. As always opinions vary on this forum.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Sorry - you did phase 1 of the fix - no buyback for you.

You want to get rid of the car - that's fine, but VW is NOT required to give you the buyback amount. It is now just a used car.

If you want to "fix" the fix - well now, that's certainly possible, depending on what you want.... the greenie / treehuggers wouldn't like a, but it is certainly an option.
I thought the settlement stated that if owners were unhappy with the fix performance, they could opt for the buyback instead (For a limited period).
 

tadawson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
Note also that all fixes to date are software only, and I suspect that the Gen-1 won't be . . . IE much more time to tool up possible new parts, build inventory, distribute, etc. All good reasons to do it last . . . Gen-3 and Gen-2 fixes to date are pretty much zero parts cost per car, zero cost to distribute . . .
 

scooperhsd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
Kansas City KS
TDI
NB, 2000, RED(5 Speed conversion) 2015 Golf SE
I thought the settlement stated that if owners were unhappy with the fix performance, they could opt for the buyback instead (For a limited period).
You were mistaken.

You got your money from the phase I fix - your claim has been CLOSED.
 

Scongiundi

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Texas
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI (6spd manual), 2015 Jetta TDI SE (6spd manual)
Ok, but your still comparing a Manual to Automatic.
I would definitely expect noticeable differences between the two.

If I had a Manual I could probably try and drive around the fix.
Even when I test drove the Automatics with DSG in manual gear mode I was underwhelmed with the fix. As always opinions vary on this forum.
Well, I am comparing my '13 6MT to my '15 6MT. But yeah my observations may not necessarily apply to those who have the automatics. Although I'd be surprised if it was that different. Maybe the DSG programming makes the car shift sooner than what people would prefer?
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
You were mistaken.

You got your money from the phase I fix - your claim has been CLOSED.
Apparently there is an 18 month "re-offer period ". But that has more to do with warranty repairs (or lack thereof) than general dissatisfaction with performance.
 

Miss_Athanatos

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Location
Kansas
TDI
2015 Golf SportWagen 6-speed manual; 2016 3500 Ram Tradesman 4X4 6.7L Cummins 6-Speed manual
Regardless of Kerma's claims, ~5% reported gains on a dyno run is statistically insignificant. Dyno margin of error in reporting is +/- 3%, and it takes at least 10% gains to be noticeable from the driver seat.

Also, there is no telling which generation of phase 1 "fix" software is being applied to the Gen 3 autos in any given area. There is no good reason to believe based upon reported performance of test drivers across the USA that there is any universality to the phase 1 "fix" software in the USA.

I always thought that my car (2015 GSW w/original software) was pretty peppy from first test drive. I never drove a Gen 1 or Gen 2 TDI, but I did test drive a little 1.0L Ford Focus. That car was not sized to its engine for sure, but that experience reinforced that small engines need a lot more fueling to get started when letting out the clutch. There is certainly a turbo lag in the Gen 3 TDI, but as long as you floor it in first and second, the lag is negligible.

-- Nicole
 

scooperhsd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
Kansas City KS
TDI
NB, 2000, RED(5 Speed conversion) 2015 Golf SE
Apparently there is an 18 month "re-offer period ". But that has more to do with warranty repairs (or lack thereof) than general dissatisfaction with performance.

Generally - You need to be more aggressive on the throttle, and on a DSG, either manually shift it or put it into Sport mode. It's quite satisfactory when the DSG equipped cars are driven that way. And I can say that because my car had 25-27000 miles on it when we got the phase I fix (about a week after it was announced).
 
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