Daydream - building a 1.5L CR engine.

TDIMeister said:

De-stroke an ALH 20mm, which gives 1499cc, and carry on with well known power enhancement mods. Done. This has already been posted in this thread before. No sleeving nonsense or exotic, unobtanium methods.
300 HP is not out of the realm of possibility.

Edit:

• Ported big valve ALH head and 11mm lift race cam from NPS heads
• 12mm pump / 11mm cam plate, .360 injectors
• Compound turbo (you'll need about 48 PSI of boost for 300 HP @ 1.5L displacement; impossible to generate this efficiently in a single stage)

Click to expand...

How about the above but start with a PD engine?



PD Nozzles cost a bit more but mean no spending on a big pump.


Then as it's a speed record car with the right gear ratios does it actually need compounding or would a big hybrid VNT eg Darkside GTD2872VRK provide enough boost in the airflow range required and with it being de-stroked up the rpm to ~5500 to make the power?



With the right injectors and some good exhaust manifold cooling you could run a lot of fuel e:g smoke haze even when on boost. This is based on the assumption that the engine only has to run ~50 miles total so exhaust manifold cracking from excessive heat and heat cycling isn't a major concern and the GTD vane pack should be resilient to hot temperatures ~950c?

OK, sounds like a reasonable path.


With the newer 4 valve cylinder heads and Common Rail options, I wanted to make sure that all possibilities receive consideration.


A de-stroked crank and custom rods would be the main "special" parts for a 1.5L variant of ALH. mTDI pump from Goran, .360 nozzles, and a suitable pair of turbos are all obtainable pieces.


I've used Pauter for custom connecting rods in the past, so that's not a huge hurdle.


Anyone have firsthand recommendations for crankshaft grinders?


Thanks,


Steve.

Jetmugg said:

Thank you, Admins, for combining threads. The current records on salt and on pavement were set with a 1.5L IDI engine. I have tried on multiple occasions to bump the record higher by adding more fuel and boost to the 1.5L IDI, to no avail, and at a significant damage to my wallet.


For 2018, we will be running a 2 liter engine in the Rampage, but I'm keen to get back into the development of the 1.5 engine.

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CR/PD, yank the wires to one injector
VP/VE, rout one injector hardline to return to the tank

then you can run for both classes 2L and 1.5L with the same engine. Common to do it by grounding out spark plug wires on gas motors.

I would go with a PD in a heartbeat over an M-tdi.I've personally done 3 M-tdi's in the past and vp37/alh.

My new to me BHW engine in my samurai works so much better in every way than the old AHU (M-tdi) that it replaced.There is no comparing a mechanical VE/VP pumped TDI to a PD.I figure that my old M-tdi (ahu 12mm,warp 5's) made around 160 hp.The PD with nozzles and a tune on the same turbo setup makes 300 hp.

I'd say de-stroke a PD and never look back.Vp37/ALH is ok too.

I used 100% firads with Darkside camshaft,valve springs and headstuds.Injectors and tuning were done by QuickTD and Mike @ TD tuning.

mechanical governors kind of suck hard

max a/f ratio, torque limiting and timing are all kind of a dark art and they change wildly with different ambient conditions
meaning,
set it up to drive nice and not smoke, it's an underfueled dog
set it up to run hard and it's real easy to break stuff with your right foot

The engines I'm using for the 2 liter and 1.5 liter record chases are definitely not daily drivers. Most Land Speed Records are pretty mature, meaning that if you are chasing an existing record, you need to be "All-In".


I'm really getting my mind around de-stroking an ALH or PD engine.


Does anyone have recommendations for a crank grinder?


Steve.

1.4 TDi looks like the best option

firad 80, gt17xx ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSw07XBcItg

lewo said:

1.4 TDi looks like the best option

firad 80, gt17xx ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSw07XBcItg

Click to expand...

Nice find - the poster claims 190HP, which is certainly believable. Ideally, I'd like to make a bit more power than that.


Steve.

Jetmugg said:

The engines I'm using for the 2 liter and 1.5 liter record chases are definitely not daily drivers. Most Land Speed Records are pretty mature, meaning that if you are chasing an existing record, you need to be "All-In".


I'm really getting my mind around de-stroking an ALH or PD engine.


Does anyone have recommendations for a crank grinder?


Steve.

Click to expand...

The main reason I have not suggested a PD is that I have not yet seen one dyno'ed that doesn't have HP peak well below 5000 RPM, which would be a waste of a de-stroked, loud-cammed engine. If you were building for the 2L class, by all means a PD or CR may well be better suited.

The VE is a well-known entity for high RPM. 300 HP in a 1.5L displacement would represent 39.8 bar BMEP at 4500 RPM - too much stress on the engine! Developing the same 300 HP at 5500 RPM instead drops the BMEP to 32.56 bar and is quite a bit more realistic.

For machining, I have employed the services of these folks:
http://www.lsmeng.com/

They do custom cams all the way to billet blocks. When I visited quite a few years ago, they were working on a custom V16 block for Cadillac (the OEM).

Another reason I also counted sleeving a block and installing smaller pistons as rubbish are two-fold: 1) Where to find the pistons (yes, you could go with 76.5mm Lupo 3L ones) and MLS head gaskets? 2) More seriously, shrouding the valves.

Going to a 3-pot, while presenting certain advantages for pulse turbocharging and scavenging, also has big disadvantages, as already discussed at depth earlier in this thread.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3598508&postcount=75

Thank you. That is excellent information all-around, especially as directly related to rpm's and pressure.


Since readily available gearing options are limited, as are practical tire sizes for land-speed applications, turning 5500 or more rpm's is particularly attractive.


Steve

TDIMeister said:

The VE is a well-known entity for high RPM. 300 HP in a 1.5L displacement would represent 39.8 bar BMEP at 4500 RPM - too much stress on the engine! Developing the same 300 HP at 5500 RPM instead drops the BMEP to 32.56 bar and is quite a bit more realistic.

For machining, I have employed the services of these folks:
http://www.lsmeng.com/

Click to expand...

Based on reading some previous threads, your car was developing about 167 WHP that set the 135 MPH record.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=5232981#post5232981

Some quick calcs and discussion determined that you'd need between 333-350 HP to do 170 MPH. That would raise the goal post pretty good, wouldn't it?

That HP range is still within the realm of feasibility. Using 21.5" tall tires, a CTN transmission with 6-speed conversion and 0.658 top gear ratio will have the engine turning at 5519 RPM at 170 MPH.

I'll be running this year at World of Speed (September 14-17) with a 2 liter engine (Mercedes OM604), mated to a GM/SAAB F40 transaxle.


I have plenty of work still to do on that combination, but should have it ready for a chassis dyno session before running at Bonneville. Having more HP data to go along with actual speed and rpm data will be helpful in figuring a good HP/speed relationship for other engine/trans combinations.


There is little aerodynamic data available for trucks like my Rampage or a VW Caddy, so we have to use direct speed/hp measurements to infer aero data.


As you have shown, having suitable "gear splits" in the upper gears is critical as well.


I feel pretty good about how the 2 liter combination will perform, and I'm looking forward to getting back on the 1.5 liter "program".


STeve.