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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+)

VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+) Discussion area for the 2012+ Passat TDI (North American and rest of world versions versions). The North American model was previously codenamed NMS (New Midsize Sedan) and the version the rest of the world gets is sometimes referred to as B7.

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Old June 13th, 2018, 10:53   #1
BigBrian
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Default New guy looking for advice

Hello all.

I recently got a promotion to an outside sales position. I am currently driving a Toyota Tundra. That won't cut it at 16mpg...

I'm looking at picking up a 2015 (or so) Passat 6mt diesel.

Are there serious issues with these cars? Are there better years than others? I plan on using Rawtek to delete the EGR and DPF systems to gain mileage and power.

How is the reliability? My Toyotas make it to 300K without issue.

Thanks for the help!
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Old June 13th, 2018, 17:04   #2
JKC_NC
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I drove a 2015 Passat TDI MT for 60K miles. It is well suited to the application you suggest. Great on fuel. Great range. Roomy/comfy/rides well. I *think* if you don't abuse the engine it should last a LONG time at highway speeds. This car loves cruising at 2000-2200 RPMs and you will be cruising at 75 mph at 2000 rpm. Does the car you are looking at have 17" or 18" wheels? The 17" ride better, get better fuel economy, and tires are cheaper to replace.

Leave the emissions system intact. It is nice. No soot. It is "clean". Tail pipe is cleaner than a gas car. I was behind a deleted white BMW something-something-d a couple weeks ago and he was entertaining himself billowing black smoke...not cool.

Unless you drive like a jackass or only take very short trips in heavy traffic, you can hardly get less than 40 mpg in these cars if you keep them rolling. If stopped...well...mpg is 0 no matter what you drive. I have *averaged* 44 mpg on my manual passat over 58K miles. That is a lifetime average, *not* a cruising highway number.

I'm keeping a "fixed" DSG and selling back a 6M. Not because I didn't like the 6M...rather because I couldn't locate a "fixed" 6M. Cheers, and good luck.

Edit to add range info:
Range on the car is outstanding. Tank is "18.5 gal". I typically fill it "all the way up" to the top of the filler tube. I usually fill up as soon as practical once the car shows 0 range. The car will take ~17.9 gal in this state, so there should be at least 0.6 gal left. I pushed it 40 miles past the 0 range mark once and filled with 18.75 gal, but that was beyond my comfort zone. I count on filling up within 25 miles of reaching 0 range (I hit the trip computer as soon as it shows 0 range) and have no worries if a convenient station is not at the next exit. Most tanks have taken me 790-820 miles. Some people don't think range is important for a high quality driving experience, but it is. You are never *desperate* to stop...you stop when it is convenient. And filling up half as often is nice.

Edit 2 (best year):
Get the 2015. It has the EA288 engine, which VW spent a TON to develop as THE platform to carry them forward. It addresses weaknesses with the 2009-2014 non-urea TDI (golf/jetta) and the 2012-1014 urea TDI (passat) and is the best of the "modern" TDIs. It's "downside" is it is an orphan...but...it's an easy engine to live with and seems sound.

Edit 3 (fringe benefit):
These cars are so boring, no flair, yet not weird frumpy (except the clock on the dash)...they draw NO attention from cops or anyone else. A NMS Passat TDI was *never* used as a getaway car, and it has zero gangta' cred. I think you get a free 2 or 3 mph with no ticket (unless install spinners, weave through traffic, drive like a jackass) compared to other sedans. I have not gotten the first glance from a cop since moving to a passat. Passat TDI exudes zero threat to anyone...and to me that is a plus.
__________________

Blue '15 Passat SE TDI DSG (part 1 emissions fixed, B: 2/2018)
Black '15 Passat SE TDI, 6-speed manual (buyback pending, B: 4/2015)
Silver '10 JSW TDI, 6-speed manual (B: 10/2009, S: 4/2015)

Last edited by JKC_NC; June 13th, 2018 at 17:57. Reason: add info
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Old June 13th, 2018, 19:01   #3
mejpassat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKC_NC View Post
I drove a 2015 Passat TDI MT for 60K miles. It is well suited to the application you suggest. Great on fuel. Great range. Roomy/comfy/rides well. I *think* if you don't abuse the engine it should last a LONG time at highway speeds. This car loves cruising at 2000-2200 RPMs and you will be cruising at 75 mph at 2000 rpm. Does the car you are looking at have 17" or 18" wheels? The 17" ride better, get better fuel economy, and tires are cheaper to replace.
Leave the emissions system intact. It is nice. No soot. It is "clean". Tail pipe is cleaner than a gas car. I was behind a deleted white BMW something-something-d a couple weeks ago and he was entertaining himself billowing black smoke...not cool.
Unless you drive like a jackass or only take very short trips in heavy traffic, you can hardly get less than 40 mpg in these cars if you keep them rolling. If stopped...well...mpg is 0 no matter what you drive. I have *averaged* 44 mpg on my manual passat over 58K miles. That is a lifetime average, *not* a cruising highway number.
I'm keeping a "fixed" DSG and selling back a 6M. Not because I didn't like the 6M...rather because I couldn't locate a "fixed" 6M. Cheers, and good luck.
Edit to add range info:
Range on the car is outstanding. Tank is "18.5 gal". I typically fill it "all the way up" to the top of the filler tube. I usually fill up as soon as practical once the car shows 0 range. The car will take ~17.9 gal in this state, so there should be at least 0.6 gal left. I pushed it 40 miles past the 0 range mark once and filled with 18.75 gal, but that was beyond my comfort zone. I count on filling up within 25 miles of reaching 0 range (I hit the trip computer as soon as it shows 0 range) and have no worries if a convenient station is not at the next exit. Most tanks have taken me 790-820 miles. Some people don't think range is important for a high quality driving experience, but it is. You are never *desperate* to stop...you stop when it is convenient. And filling up half as often is nice.
Edit 2 (best year):
Get the 2015. It has the EA288 engine, which VW spent a TON to develop as THE platform to carry them forward. It addresses weaknesses with the 2009-2014 non-urea TDI (golf/jetta) and the 2012-1014 urea TDI (passat) and is the best of the "modern" TDIs. It's "downside" is it is an orphan...but...it's an easy engine to live with and seems sound.
Edit 3 (fringe benefit):
These cars are so boring, no flair, yet not weird frumpy (except the clock on the dash)...they draw NO attention from cops or anyone else. A NMS Passat TDI was *never* used as a getaway car, and it has zero gangta' cred. I think you get a free 2 or 3 mph with no ticket (unless install spinners, weave through traffic, drive like a jackass) compared to other sedans. I have not gotten the first glance from a cop since moving to a passat. Passat TDI exudes zero threat to anyone...and to me that is a plus.
All the above is true. I loved my 2014, but love my 2015 more.
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Old June 13th, 2018, 19:15   #4
goodmonkey
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BigBrian, welcome to the forum.

Lots of good points made already, here are a couple more.

There is no emissions fix for the 2012-2014 6MT cars. There is though an approved fix for the 2015 6MT. If you wanted DSG then there is a fix for both generation of engines, just differences in what those fixes are.

The 2012-2014 Passats with the emissions fix have their emissions warranty extended to 123k miles (10 yr 3mo). It is a pretty good warranty too from what I can tell. It covers the turbo, high pressure fuel pump (HPFP), and DPF, all areas of concern with the Gen II CR TDI engine (and Gen I as well). I've not heard specifically of those same issues with the Gen III engine (the EA288, engine code CVCA).

The 2015 got a better deal on emissions warranty extension, out to 162k miles (11 yr). There is more to that too, which you can read here: https://www.vwdiesellookup.com/pdf/V...Gen3_Final.pdf

I have a 2014 with DSG simply because the 2015 I wanted to look at wasn't available. While I kind of wish I held out for the 2015 because of the warranty, I'm comfortable with the decision I made. I don't see why either car couldn't make it to 300k plus, I've seen some on the forum get close to that already (Jetta/Golf with Gen I engine). Some of my older cars have made it, not all my miles of course (see signature block). Good luck with yours.
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2014 Passat TDI SEL (DSG) - 71k, 2007 Silverado Duramax - 422k
Previous TDI's: 1996 Passat TDI- totaled at 394k miles, 1998 Passat TDI - 175k miles, 2012 Passat TDI SE - 41k, 1996 Passat TDI Variant - 327k, 2014 Jetta SportWagon TDI 6MT - 29k, 2015 Passat TDI SEL - 18k, 2006 Jetta TDI 5MT - 261k

Last edited by goodmonkey; June 13th, 2018 at 19:18. Reason: Added about reliability.
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Old June 13th, 2018, 19:32   #5
MichaelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBrian View Post
Hello all.
I plan on using Rawtek to delete the EGR and DPF systems to gain mileage and power.
Why is it that people like you that do not even own a TDI decide that when you buy one you are going to delete the emissions systems. Is that some kind of I'm the cool guy factor? You have no clue as to the power or fuel economy when you make these statements. Too much internet BS I guess. Buy the car first before planting in your brain that it needs the above illegal mods. Also, you can tune the car without removing the emission systems and help all of us breath cleaner air. Rawtek and Buzzken are making a killing on guys like you. Notice they both hide in Canada and never post here.

Last edited by MichaelB; June 13th, 2018 at 19:38.
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Old June 14th, 2018, 05:14   #6
BigBrian
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Thank you guys for the advice. I will look specifically for a 2015 TDI. There are 8 currently within a 200mi radius.

As far as the egr and dpf delete goes, I only want to do that to gain mpg and power but if its not worth it, then its not worth it. I do not want black smoke or any of those attributes.

I am hoping to be in this car in a month or so.

Thanks again!
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Old June 14th, 2018, 07:22   #7
Jetta_Pilot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBrian View Post
Thank you guys for the advice. I will look specifically for a 2015 TDI. There are 8 currently within a 200mi radius.As far as the egr and dpf delete goes, I only want to do that to gain mpg and power but if its not worth it, then its not worth it. I do not want black smoke or any of those attributes.
I am hoping to be in this car in a month or so.Thanks again!

You'd be better off to do a Stage 2 upgrade. It adds more ooomph (Hp) as well as increasing the torque . It also may increase the Mpg by keeping the engine at lower RPM's instead of having to shift down. There are sellers here on this board who'll give you more advice, Kerma and Malone are 2 dealers. This does not involve removing anything. Uses the OBD II port in your car.



There are 3 ways to do a tune to Stage 2.

1.) Find a dealer in your area to do it for you. Maybe one in your home area.
2.) Buy the Tune from Kerma or Malone and rent the tool to install it via the OBD II port and return the tool.
3.) Buy the Tune and the Flashing tool and do it yourself. This option also lets you re-install the OEM tune if you have to take the car back to the VW dealer for some major
work.


Horsepower is a misunderstood thing. I.E a 400 Hp engine will only give you that at high RPM's.


With a Diesel more torque gives you more git'up'n'go. At highway speeds the engine will sit at around 2,500 Rpm's. Normal shift points are around 2,000 Rpm.
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All interior bulbs to LED. Several VCDS modifications. Darker window tint. EVO skid-plate. Malone Stage 2, Winpower Projector headlights. Angel eyes.LED DRL's.24mm H&R rear sway bar.

Last edited by Jetta_Pilot; June 14th, 2018 at 07:26.
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Old June 14th, 2018, 09:54   #8
calimustang
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I just got 2015 Passat TDI last saturday. I came from a 2011 JSW TDI with EGR/DPF delete with stage 2 malone tune, totally different animal but smell is only the annoying part. So if I am to tune Passat with stage 2.... will I get the stock tune along just in case I send Passat back to stealership for some big work?
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2015 Passat TDI with 22k miles, completely stock. Black exterior and black interior, will add tint and black out the wheels.
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Old June 15th, 2018, 07:33   #9
Jetta_Pilot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calimustang View Post
I just got 2015 Passat TDI last saturday. I came from a 2011 JSW TDI with EGR/DPF delete with stage 2 malone tune, totally different animal but smell is only the annoying part. So if I am to tune Passat with stage 2.... will I get the stock tune along just in case I send Passat back to stealership for some big work?

For you to go back to stock tune you will need to buy the flashing tool. It stores the OEM and the boost tune. Then you can go back nd forth.
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All interior bulbs to LED. Several VCDS modifications. Darker window tint. EVO skid-plate. Malone Stage 2, Winpower Projector headlights. Angel eyes.LED DRL's.24mm H&R rear sway bar.
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Old June 15th, 2018, 07:34   #10
calimustang
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Yeah, I have flashzilla for my old JSW. can use that one?
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2011 JSW TDI bought in Aug 13th 2010, retired with 281,535 miles, on process of buyback. will be sorely missed.
2015 Passat TDI with 22k miles, completely stock. Black exterior and black interior, will add tint and black out the wheels.
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Old June 15th, 2018, 14:27   #11
Lincoln
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBrian View Post

As far as the egr and dpf delete goes, I only want to do that to gain mpg and power but if its not worth it, then its not worth it. I do not want black smoke or any of those attributes.
Biggest reason not to do a tune or delete: The amazing 162k/11yr emissions warranty. It covers pretty much everything connected in any way to the emissions warranty. Definitely not worth losing that, in my opinion. If you want to tune it after 162k/11yrs, go for it.

On another note, the MTs are awesome. I finally bought a DSG last weekend after searching unsuccessfully for a good MT for 6 months, and I'm really missing my 2013 MT (no fix, so return is the only option to get the restitution). If you can find one, grab it, but be prepared to spend a couple thousand more than you would for the same car with DSG.
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Old June 21st, 2018, 09:23   #12
BroncoAZ
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I got a 2015 6MT in November 2017. I jumped on the 6MT immediately when I found it in Las Vegas, but a DSG car would’ve been fine too. Been driving it for work exclusively since I turned in my Touareg in February 2018. These are great cars for the road warrior, I’ve only put 10K miles on mine since February. My commute is primarily I-17 between Flagstaff and Phoenix (5400’ elevation difference, so mountains), I run the grades at 72-79 mph depending on speed limit without downshifting. You can see my average mpg in the fully graphic below, 41.3 mpg overall city/highway is far better than my 2006 Cummins truck.

I don’t try to squeeze every mile of range out of my car, in tank fuel pumps are cooled by the fuel in the tank and can overheat resulting in premature failure driving to empty every time (I believe that would be covered by the 162K warranty). I usually fill up at 400-500 miles, sometimes less if I see a cheap price on diesel or if I am expensing a specific trip to work. My longest run was 592 miles, 14.915 gallons, at 39.69 mpg.

As for the tune, I won’t risk the great warranty for a performance increase. I purchased this car to commute ~30K miles per year with a low operating cost. I generally drive the car to not waste fuel, but when I do put my foot to the floor and get the RPM over 3000 the car wakes up appropriately. I’ll keep the car as long as the warranty, maybe farther until something expensive breaks, but I feel that 136K of warrantied use out of a used car I paid $17K for is acceptable value.

The other car I considered is the 2018 Camry. The LE hybrid is rated for around 50 mpg and is very comfortable. My folks got a 2018 XSE 4 cyl, it’s as nice as a Lexus and gets 38-40 mpg highway and 30-32 mpg city. My Passat gets better mileage, is diesel, has a manual transmission, and cost $14K less, so that’s why I don’t have a Camry in the driveway.
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Last edited by BroncoAZ; June 21st, 2018 at 09:30.
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