biodiesel in an international 466?

I'm just throwing this out here as an extra research source, I drive a fuel truck for a living and my boss and I were talking about the possibility of making biodiesel and running his trucks on it.

My questions are,

-Where to find out about making biodiesel
-what kind is best? (I've heard of WVO and SVO)
-Does anyone know of someone with firsthand experience running a DT 466 E on biodiesel

Anything else you want to tell me would be great.

"Does anyone know of someone with firsthand experience running a DT 466 E on biodiesel"

search for that model at biodiesel.infopop.cc

And yes, WVO and SVO is best.

You and your boss could start by simply adding upto 20% WVO in your engines w/o modifications. Limit to 10% if temps go below 10*F.

BioDiesel said:

"Does anyone know of someone with firsthand experience running a DT 466 E on biodiesel"

search for that model at biodiesel.infopop.cc

And yes, WVO and SVO is best.

You and your boss could start by simply adding upto 20% WVO in your engines w/o modifications. Limit to 10% if temps go below 10*F.

Click to expand...

One thing to recommend is that going to SVO without converting it into Biodiesel is something that would not be recommended... There's a reason they sell B20, and not SVO20. Biodiesel has all the things in SVO removed that are bad on the engine, specifically those that cause the "coking". But as a company, International has (I'm quite sure) approved the use of B20. The reason for not approving B99 is likely due to the fact that it gels at a high temperature in most cases, and fuel filters needing changed are a higher likelyhood, so warranting that would be a hassle.

When you ask about SVO vs WVO, SVO would be better for making biodiesel, as it does not need titrated (in the sense that if you buy a gallon of soybean oil, its pH will always be the same) However, collecting WVO from restaurants, although cheaper, requires filtration and tests to be run on it, to see how much NaOH/KOH to put in it, in order to neutralize the acidity. The oil needs further testing as you are not sure what KIND of oil it is, or how long it's been in the fryer (they come more acidic the more uses they have).

BioDiesel said:

You and your boss could start by simply adding up to 20% WVO in your engines w/o modifications. Limit to 10% if temps go below 10*F.

Click to expand...

DO NOT DO THIS!!!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Statements as that are the epitome of irresponsibility.

WVO/SVO is not biodiesel, it's biodiesel feedstock. You can make good quality biodiesel FROM WVO/SVO, but don't just pour the raw oil in your tank. This is what is known as splash mixing. Raw veggie oils and #2ULSD do not mix well. You could end up with several gallons of solidified goo on the bottom of your tank. Veggie oils can gel at temps as high as 40F, and anti-gel additives have NO effect on biodiesel or WVO/SVO. You might have to blend higher ratios of kerosene than normal to keep the biodiesel or raw veggie oil thinned out enough to run your engine. Notice I said run, that does not mean the engine will run well.

First things first. READ!! Learn what it takes to make good biodiesel and the problems with running biodiesel in winter. Notice I said biodiesel, not WVO/SVO. This is not something you just jump into casually in November, April maybe, but NOT November. This is especially true for someone who uses their vehicles for business purposes. A stalled truck with bio-sludge in the tank is more than an inconvenience, it's lost money 2X. The time & money spent getting the truck back on the road, and the lost revenue because the truck could not make deliveries.

.

5.1 Reduced Energy Content​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Pure biodiesel (B100) contains 8% less energy per gallon than typical No. 2 US diesel and 12.5% less energy per pound (the difference between these two metrics is caused by the fact that biodiesel is slightly more dense than diesel fuel). However, its higher viscosity range (1.9 to 6.0 centistokes) relative to petrodiesel (1.3 to 5.8 centistokes) helps offset the lower energy content through reduced barrel/plunger leakage resulting in slightly improved injection efficiency. Combining lower energy content and slightly improved injection efficiency, biodiesel fuel (B100) provides 5% to 7% less energy per gallon than petrodiesel. Therefore, the reduction in power, torque, and fuel economy is only about 1.2% for B20 and about 0.3% for B5.



[/FONT]

5.2 Potential for Increased NOx Emissions​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Although some data (such as that presented in Figure 1) have shown increased NOx emissions associated with biodiesel combustion, recent studies by the National Renewal Energy Laboratory (NREL) suggest that there is insufficient data to draw any conclusions regarding the average effect of biodiesel on NOx emissions, even in terms of its directionality.5

6. FUEL STANDARDS​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]All engines are designed and manufactured for a fuel that has certain characteristics. In the US, the industry organization that defines the consensus on fuels is the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM). For diesel fuel, the standard is ASTM D 975, and all engine and fuel injection manufacturers design their engines around that standard. In December of 2001, ASTM approved a full standard for biodiesel designated ASTM D 6751. This standard covers pure biodiesel (B100) for blending with petrodiesel in levels up to 20% by volume. Because most of the US experience has been with B20, higher levels of biodiesel are allowed on a case-by-case basis after discussion with the individual engine manufacturer. ASTM is presently working on a B20-specific standard which may be released in mid-2007.



[/FONT]

7. EFFECT ON ENGINE DURABILITY AND MAINTENANCE​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]B20 or lower blends minimize most issues associated with material compatibility. Experience during the past decade with B20 indicates compatibility with all existing elastomers in diesel fuel systems, even those that are sensitive to higher blends such as nitrile rubber. Users should continue to check for leaks, however, and fix them if they occur.

B20 may degrade faster than petrodiesel if oxidizing metals such as copper, bronze, brass, or zinc are in the fueling systems. If filter clogging occurs more frequently with B20 than with petrodiesel, the fueling system should be checked for these materials and they should be replaced with biodiesel compatible parts.
Although the growing body of long-term experience with B20 in the US will ultimately allow for a more complete assessment of the long-term effects of biodiesel and biodiesel blends on engines and fueling systems, the B20 experience has been positive to date.



[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]

8. EFFECT ON ENGINE WARRANTY​

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
[/FONT]Diesel engine companies warranty the product they make (engines) for "materials and workmanship". If there is a problem with an engine part or with engine operation due to an error in manufacturing or assembly within the prescribed warranty period, the problem will be covered by the engine company. Typically, an engine company will define what fuel the engine was designed to use and will recommend the use of that fuel to their customers in their owner’s manuals.
If engine problems occur and are attributable to a fuel (regardless of whether that fuel is petrodiesel or biodiesel), such problems are not related to the materials or workmanship of the engine and are therefore the responsibility of the fuel supplier, not the engine manufacturer. Any reputable fuel supplier (biodiesel, petrodiesel, or blend of both) should stand behind its products and cover any fuel quality problems should they occur.
Therefore, the issue relating to engine warranties and biodiesel involves whether an engine manufacturer will void its parts and workmanship warranty when biodiesel is used, and whether the fuel producer or marketer will stand behind its fuels should problems occur.
The diesel buses and engines that currently comprise MTD’s fleet, as well as pending bus deliveries, are listed in Table 1.

8.1 Detroit Diesel Position on Biodiesel​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Detroit Diesel publishes the following statement regarding the use of biodiesel fuels in their engines:6
"Detroit Diesel Corporation highly recommends biodiesel fuels made from soybean or rapeseed oil through the proper transesterification reaction process. Other feedstock source of biodiesel fuels such as animal fat and used cooking oils are not recommended by DDC. Biodiesel fuels meeting ASTM D 6751 specification, prior to blending can be mixed up to 5% maximum by volume in petroleum diesel fuel. The resulting mixture must meet the fuel properties [of] the ASTM D 975 specification. Failures attributed to the use of biodiesel fuel will not be covered by Detroit Diesel product warranty. Also, any engine performance problem related to the use of biodiesel fuel would not be recognized nor considered DDC’s responsibility."
Although it is understandable and anticipated that Detroit Diesel does not warranty failures and/or problems attributed to the use of biodiesel fuel under their materials and workmanship warranty, the significance of the reference to the use of a 5% maximum biodiesel blend is unclear. A follow-up call was placed to Detroit Diesel and the following clarifications were received:7
[/FONT]• [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Detroit Diesel had previously specified biodiesel blends up to and including B20, but changed to B5 to provide consistency with their competitors (Caterpillar and Cummins);

• Use of B20 does NOT automatically void their product (materials and workmanship) warranty;
• [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]If a fuel system problem occurs that can be traced to the use of biodiesel, it is covered under warranty at blends up to and including B5 but not at blends greater than B5;




[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]

8.2 Cummins Position on Biodiesel​

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Cummins states the following regarding the use of biodiesel fuels in their engines:8
"Cummins neither approves or disapproves of the use of biodiesel fuel. Cummins is not in a position to evaluate the many variations of biodiesel fuels or other additives, and their long-term effects on performance, durability or emissions compliance of Cummins products. The use of biodiesel fuel does not affect Cummins Material and Workmanship warranty. Failures caused by the use of biodiesel fuels or other fuel additives are [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]NOT [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]defects of workmanship and/or material as supplied by Cummins Inc. and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]CANNOT [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]be compensated under the Cummins’ warranty.
"Bosch states in their Diesel Fuel Quality – Common Position Paper (03/05/99) that no guarantee on FIE (Fuel Injector Equipment) is given so far to any alternative fuel except for Diesel + 5% FAME (Fatty Acid Methyl Esters, i.e., biodiesel derived from soybean or rapeseed oils). There is a major difference between operating on pure (100% concentration) biodiesel and biodiesel/petrodiesel blends."
Therefore, Cummins specifically states that use of biodiesel does not void its engine warranty and indicates that its fuel injection equipment supplier warrants biodiesel blends of up to B5.
In summary, engine manufacturer warranty coverage is not definitively expressed for a majority of the engines in MTD's bus fleet to operate on B20. Use of B20 at this time could affect warranty coverage of engines and exhaust after-treatment systems. There is some speculation within the industry, however, that both Detroit Diesel and Cummins may specifically allow biodiesel blends of up to B20 after approval and release of the ASTM B20 specification. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

Click to expand...

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]

Run SVO or WVO in ANY MODERN DIESEL ENGINE and you will DESTROY IT! No amount of preperation of the "oil" can negate the longterm damage you are doing to the motor.

Too many clowns (even around here) think they can run straight oil in a TDI, They brag about making the engine last 30,000 miles...To date NOBODY has ever made it past 200,000 miles WIHTOUT SIGNIFICANT COST OR DAMAGE to the motor, NONE!

If you want to be responsible and maintian the Engines fuel system, run B5 (ASTM compliant) fuel.

That engine makes money, the last thing you need to do is DESTROY IT! Not sure of the going rates, but I would guess you would be $20,000 out of pocket if the motor was damaged (just a guess).

Run Biodiesel (B5) for starters. Add 2 micron fuel filters to the engine in addition to the 7 micron primaries (if not already installed).

Understand that poor quality Biodiesel can and will destroy the entire fuel system. Unless you COMPLETELY understand the process and how to remove ALL OF THE RESIDUAL ALCOHOL do NOT attempt to run "Homemade Biodiesel" it in ANY engine.

DB
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

A challenge to the SVO naysayers:

OK those who know where the caps key is, here's a challenge:

Find me ONE diesel engine that either
a) jelled on < 20% SVO above 10*F , or
b) coked it's engine after any number of miles on <20% SVO.

If you can't, please S...U.


".To date NOBODY has ever made it past 200,000 miles WIHTOUT SIGNIFICANT COST OR DAMAGE to the motor, NONE!"
Uh wrong. Here's 3. and I can provide more.
http://rapsdb.rapsinfo.de/index.php?marke=&sort=-LaufleistungP%D6L

It's good to see the anti-SVO wall starting to crumble.
It used to be just "DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!"
Now it's:
"DON'T DO IT IT WON'T LAST 200,000 MILES !!!!!!"

Old Chinese proverb:

"He who says it can't be done should not stand in the way of he that is doing it."


" WIHTOUT SIGNIFICANT COST"

This is the funniest part. Poor apoplectic DBW can't possibly know that the owners of the 3 trucks listed above have probably collectively saved $120,000 over the time they've run SVO.

Show me an engine that has over 200,000 miles without significant (more than $1,000 in repairs total)...You can't!

The burden of proof is ON YOU!

If you run B5 in a TDI the probability of going 750,000 miles WITHOUT a repair to the fuel system is not only probabe but likely!

Wear items of the injection system refer to Nozzles (typical life 200,000 miles on D#2, more with higher lubricity (B2-B5 dosing), 2 micron filtration.

Fuel filters don't count if they were only replaced at 20,000 mile intervals since this is "maintenance" and has to be performed regardless of mileage.

DB

"Raw veggie oils and #2ULSD do not mix well."

Challenge #3:

I'll pay $100 to the first person who performs the following and has a 1 hr video to prove it:.

In a quart jar, place 20% food grade cooking oil ( any kind ) with 80% ULSD.
Strap jar and camera to back seat such taht camera can film the jar.
Go for a one hour ride. City, Country, highway, doesn't matter.
If the video shows any separation after 1 hour, you get $100.


Tip: You won't get past the pour stage.


I'll bet $20, that the person who made the top statement never tried it.

Re: challenge #1 and #2

"The burden of proof is ON YOU!"

Hey DBW, where's the gelled or coked engines???
I knew you couldn't find one.
FOS.
Soon your battle cry will be:
"NOT EVERY SVO'ER GETS TO 200,000 MILES!!!!"


Here's one of the fore mentioned fmso.de 200K+ club trucks at work:
http://antoch.eu/


Another's quote:
"310000Km keine Probleme läuft und läuft und läuft!!!
365000Km keine Probleme läuft und läuft und läuft!!"

Do I have to translate 'keine Probleme' for anyone?


Where the top SVO mileage holder fuels up:
http://www.kalb-pflanzenoele.de/bilder/200/p1000302.jpg

The original poster did not ask about running SVO in his International, and on top of that, finding biodiesel for ~3/gallon is a lot easier than finding SVO for that price.

Also, the "keine Probleme laeuft und laeuft" person had the whole two-tank system.

I don't see how running 100% WVO would cause coking, where running 20% would cause none. Nothing is taken OUT of the SVO to cause the coking to go away.

As for the camera/jar experiment: A more accurate one would be to see if they seperate by being left to sit for a week or so.

Also, if you say you can mix SVO with D2, doesn't than mean you can mix 20% SVO with 80% B99?

"A more accurate one would be to see if they seperate by being left to sit for a week or so. "

Ok. But not easily proven on video. The unscrupulous need only switch the 'before' and 'after' shots.

And yes, you can mix veggie and bd. But not as easily as diesel.

Yes, the "runs and runs and runs" truck was heated. But DBW didn't specify unheated. He said NO SVO vehicle ever made it to 200,000. Clearly uninformed.
And the truck ran 100% SVO. I'm only recommending 20% max. unheated SVO or WVO.


As for top unheated mileage, I think memphis_TDI can claim that one at 50,000 miles on an unheated 50/50 blend, iirc.


"I don't see how running 100% WVO would cause coking, where running 20% would cause none. "

There are several studies and many user reports showing exactly that. It's not necessarily 'none'.
The coking at 25% SVO was not non-existant, but was not sufficient enough to reduce engine's usefullness.
http://www.regional.org.au/au/gcirc/6/214.htm

In general, for unheated SVO, coking is proportional to the amount of SVO. You can find more research at infopop.

"finding biodiesel for ~3/gallon is a lot easier than finding SVO for that price. "

Are you talking about B100? Thats the only fuel that you can compare to 100% SVO. Last I checked, B100 stations were few and far between.

Here's a list of over 100 places I can get SVO for $3.80/gallon on the East coast:
http://www.bjs.com/locations/

In Mass, they outnumber B100 places 6:1 In CT, 10:0.
I and 80,000 others pass within 3 miles of one daily. It's not uncommon for B100 users to drive
several hours for a fillup in Mass.

Not sure about Hamilton Ohio, but Ohio is not the alt fuel mecca Seattle is.
Hence the SVO plug to begin with.

As others have pointed out, the OP was asking about using biodiesel in their truck and using WVO/SVO as a biodiesel feedstock, NOT simply pouring in raw veggie oil into the tank.

Biodiesel by itself changes the gel point of the fuel and anyone who is contemplating using biodiesel has to fully understand the risks and limits, especially in winter. Large fuel tanks compound the problems because of the increased risk of the fuels separating into layers.

For you to suggest running 20% raw oil is simply plain reckless. I don't what else to say. The photo below is a typical bulk delivery truck that probably has a 100 gallon fuel tank. Adding (20%) 20 gallons of raw oil or 10 gallons in winter is going to cause problems in any fuel tank that large. The veggie oil tends not mix well and settle in a layer. No commercial operation is going to invest in a dual heated tank system to run a WVO/SVO/#2 mix or anything else.




Please stop and think before you post. If you would have at least made some attempt to understand the application I could give you a shred of credibility. As you have NO experience with trucks this size please refrain from dispensing advice. Is it too much to ask for you to be responsible by asking people contemplating using these fuels to do their due diligence first?



.

"Please stop and think before you post. If you would have at least made some attempt to understand the application I could give you a shred of credibility."

You completely missed the point of my post.
I have many times stated that people should use 20% SVO over 20% biodiesel due to the fact that SVO is much more available, and it works, two points I think I made in this thread.

While doing more research and building a processor, the OP could simply pour in 20% SVO and be off to a good start w/o any effort or inconveniance. This might meet all their goals. Once they were satisfied 20% SVO worked, they could switch to well filtered WVO to save money.

And 20% SVO will not gell or settle just because you say it will. Physics is on my side. Check the Schur fuel charts.
http://members.aol.com/hpschur/raps.html

If you have no knowledge of Schur, you do not have any knowledge of running unheated veggie / diesel blends.



"TECHNICAL INFORMATION

Attempts and results

About 100 different Diesel units are operated at present with SCHUR ECOFUEL. Of 1,6 litres of Diesel cars up to LKWs (VOLVO F 12) an extensive spectrum is tested. At the engines no changes were made.

At the university high home, Stuttgart, Germany, was driven an engine permanent run of over 650 hours on the test stand (fig.1). The engine was examined by the engine manufacturer (MWM Mannheim). The result was addressing according to statements of the responsible persons.

A Mercedes Benz of 300 turbo-Diesels is operated without problems since more than 200,000 km with the fuel. The engine of this vehicle was so far three times partly divided and by the companies. Hoeckle, Moessingen, examined (see reports). The results were very positive. Were neither nonspecific carbon deposits to recognize nor gluings of the piston rings or other damage. Surprising way was cleaner the inside of the engine with each examination of the engine than during the preceding dismantling, which suggests that the fuel has also a cleaning effect. The emission values of the vehicle were measured twice with the TUEV and found good.

A tractor (DEUTZ), which for more than 1800 hours with SCHUR ECOFUEL is operated, perfectly one divided and one examined after a run achievement from approximately 1200 hours. The obtained results were again very positive. According to enclosed report no significant damage was visible and all experts was very content with the results.

A tractor (Holder), which for more than 1400 hours with SCHUR ECOFUEL is operated, after a run achievement from approximately 700 hours, by a mechanic of the engine manufacturer (KHD), completely one divided. The results corresponded more near above to the described.

So far with the SCHUR ECOFUEL a complete run achievement was reached of more as 1.000.000 km in pre-chamber diesel engines and more than 8000 hours in directly injecting diesel engines.

Experiences and recommendations

Past experiences showed that in dependence of the purity of the used vegetable oil, a verkuerzung of the changing interval for fuel filters becomes necessary.

In order to prevent the negative consequences of schmieroelverduennungen, we recommend a halving of the oil change interval with directinjecting diesel engines.

Directinjecting diesel engines are not applicable when main use in the Niederlastbereich (under 30 % load during longer periods) without Diesel fuel admixture (at least 50 %).

- table removed (size, formatting)

All data were determined. Many merging were examined not for cooling stability, there the requirement to the RWS Diesel on a flash point entspr. Diesel fuel, as well as energy content of the mixture and practical tests lay.

In the following a report on the investigation railways 300 of turbo-Diesel, with mileage approx.. 70.000

Peter@hpschur.de"


Why not try reading some of the posted research instead of castigating me about a subject you obviously know nothing about????
Why not send me that video of veggie settling in a jar?

There are hundreds of SVO fuel stations in Germany. I have no doubt , that as I write this, someone in Germany is fueling with SVO and diesel in a splash blend. If what BKMetz asserts is true, hundreds of German SVO'ers would be lining the curbs by now with gelled or separated fuel tanks. This is definately not the case.


I've challenged you to prove a blend will settle.
I've challenged you to prove a minor blend will coke an engine.
I'm waiting for something more than '..I don't what else to say..'

"The veggie oil tends not mix well and settle in a layer."
Ok. Show an example. Or a report. have you ever tried blending SVO+dzl in jars yourself?
I have.
- In jars, with WVO of various filtrations. It blends readily.
[Actually, it would be a challenge to keep them separated.]

Here's my report at infopop:
"I am very interested in this problem too, as I use an 80/20 wvo/(gas or diesel or kerosene) blend in my two vehicles. I have always just added the two components separately, 3 - 6 gallons at a time. I haven't had any noticeble problem.

But I decided to test some blends in a clear glass jar.

Test #1
1/3 bottle of settle filtered canola wvo and
1/6 bottle of gasoline.
WVO first, gas dribled in as slow as possible to simulate tank filling. Both fuels were at 45*F.

Result: Gas formed a layer on top of the wvo and did not mix for 2 minutes.

Test #2
Same jar as #1, gently jiggled the jar to simulate tank sloshing. Only 1/2" jiggles, no inversions or shaking.

Result: gasoline layer shrank a little, some mixing occurred.

Test #3
Added 1/6 biodiesel, hoping it might promote mixing.

Result:
The gasoline layer got bigger, but not the wvo layer.

Test #4
Covered the jar and shook it for 10 seconds.
Completely mixed. No settleing after 2 min.'s

Test #5
First gasoline, then wvo. Again dribbled in.
The gasoline floated to the surface and formed a layer as in test #1, ON TOP OF the WVO!


Test #6
A new jar of 1/3 biodiesel and 1/3 gasoline dribbled in. Mixed readily w/o jiggleing or shaking. Same with bd added to gasoline.


Conclusions:
Gasoline and biodiesel mix readily w/o mixing.
Gasoline and wvo don't blend w/o mixing.

From now on, I'll have to add the gasoline/kerosene/diesel to the wvo and shake it in a 5 gallon jug."

Note: After making this post I discovered that the level of filtration effected the blending.
The WVO used in the test above was only filtered to 100 micron.
WVO filtered to 1 micron had no problems mixing and could not form a layer as seen in the first tests.
Thats why I specified SVO in the fuel mixing challenge, to ensure it met fuel standards.




- In my car for 72,000 miles w/ only one gelling incident at 18*F. [B80 would have jelled too.]



More on Schur:

Schur-Mischung

Die Schur-Mischung (oder Schurmischung) ist nach H. Schur benannt, der etwa ab 1993 ein Verfahren suchte, reines Pflanzenöl ( Pöl ) durch Zumischung anderer Stoffe in relativ geringem Anteil in herkömmlichen (nicht modifizierten) Dieselmotoren verfahren zu können. The Schur-Mischung (or Schurmischung) is named after H. Schur, at about 1993 a procedure sought, pure vegetable oil (Pöl) Zumischung other substances in a relatively small share in conventional (unmodified) diesel engines to be able to proceed. Reines Pöl hat eine wesentlich höhere Viskosität, als herkömmlicher Dieselkraftstoff. Pure Pöl has a much higher viscosity than conventional diesel fuel. Ferner liegt der Flammpunkt deutlich höher, was bei kalter Witterung und kaltem Motor Startprobleme verursacht. Moreover, the flash point significantly higher, which in cold weather and cold engine startup problems.

Der im Oktober 2000 veröffentlichte Bericht beschreibt die Ergebnisse seiner Experimente mit "SCHUR-ECOFUEL", wie er sein Diesel-Kraftstoff-Substitut nannte. The October 2000 published report describes the results of his experiments with "SCHUR-ECOFUEL", as he Diesel-Kraftstoff-Substitut called.

Einige Pflanzenölfahrer mit Direkteinspritzer-Dieseln nutzen heute solche Mischungen, um ihren modernen Motor trotz der Probleme mit 100% Pflanzenöl im 1-Tank Prinzip oder gar ohne Umbauten zu betreiben. Some drivers vegetable oil with Direkteinspritzer-Dieseln use today such mixtures to its modern engine despite the problems with 100% vegetable oil in 1-Tank principle, or even to operate without modifications.
Herstellung, Komponenten Manufacturing, components

Den größten Teil der Schurmischung bildet mit etwa 80% natürlich das Pflanzenöl. The largest part of the Schurmischung formed with about 80% of course, the vegetable oil. Die zwei weiteren Komponenten Benzin und IPA füllen die übrigen 20% zu etwa gleichen Teilen. The two other components of gasoline and IPA fill the remaining 20% to roughly equal parts. Das Mischungsverhältnis kann je nach Witterung und individuellen Erfahrungen mit dem eigenen Motor angepasst werden um eines der Grundprinzipien (s.u.) zu verstärken. The mixing ratio can vary according to weather and individual experiences with its own engine to be one of the basic principles (see below).
Prinzip Principle

Zwei Komponenten, zwei Ziele: Das Benzin hat sich als geeigneter Zusatz erwiesen, um das Pflanzenöl dünnflüssiger zu machen. Two-component, two objectives: The fuel has to be appropriate additional proved to vegetable oil to make thinner. Schon 10% Benzin im Pöl bringen einen erheblichen Unterschied. Already 10% Fueled by Pöl bring a significant difference. Dadurch kann der Kraftstoff bei der Einspritzung in den Brennraum feiner zerstäubt werden und zündet entsprechend besser. This allows the fuel injection in the combustion chamber in the fine sputters and better lighting accordingly. Ein weiterer Effekt ist eine sog. Kaskadenzündung. Another effect is a so-called cascade ignition. Auch wenn Benzin ein schlechter Selbstzünder ist, unterstützt der flüchtige Brennstoff nach der Zündung des Gemisches die Verbrennung. Even though gasoline is a bad ignition engines, fuel, the volatile after the ignition of the mixture combustion.

Die weitere Komponente Isopropylalkohol ist dagegen im Vergleich zum Benzin ein idealer Selbstzünder mit einem Flammpunkt von 12°C und bewirkt eine Zündung des Gemischs bei geringerer Kompressionstemperatur als mit reinem Pflanzenöl (Flammpunkt ca. 300°C). The other component of isopropyl alcohol on the other hand is compared to an ideal fuel ignition engines with a flash point of 12 ° C and causes an ignition of the mixture at a lower temperature than compression with pure vegetable oil (flashpoint approximately 300 ° C).

Im Zusammenspiel ergeben diese Faktoren ein Kraftstoffgemisch, dass ohne aufwändige Veresterungsprozesse wie bei Biodiesel den Eigenschaften von fossilem Diesel relativ nah kommt. The interplay of these factors


result in a fuel mixture that without costly Veresterungsprozesse like biodiesel the properties of fossil diesel
relatively close.

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Dieser Artikel basiert auf dem Artikel Schur-Mischung aus der freien Enzyklopdie Wikipedia und steht unter der GNU-Lizenz fuer freie Dokumentation . This article is based on the article Schur-Mischung from the free Enzyklopdie Wikipedia and is available under the GNU license for free documentation. In der Wikipedia ist eine Liste der Autoren verfuegbar. In the Wikipedia is a list of authors available.
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Original German text:
Die Schur-Mischung (oder Schurmischung) ist nach H. Schur benannt, der etwa ab 1993 ein Verfahren suchte, reines Pflanzenöl ( Pöl ) durch Zumischung anderer Stoffe in relativ geringem Anteil in herkömmlichen (nicht modifizierten) Dieselmotoren verfahren zu können.
Suggest a better translation

Oh gawd, this just gets better...

I google Schur Ecodiesel and I get general hits for fuel thinning and guess what else, DIESEL SECRET!!! I got hits for Biopower too which I guess is a Schur ripoff product, Xado magic in a small tube, etc. Hmmm.. shills copying other shills! So Schur Ecodiesel is in good company!!

Schur Ecodiesel is what, 80% Canola (the only good part of this mix), 15% gasoline, and 5% isoproplyl alcohol. About the only difference between Schur's formula and DSE's magic alchemy is the absence of mothballs.

The Schur link is in German and appears to be a shill site for Schur by Schur. Physics, be it right or wrong, has been prostituted as a shill for Schur Ecodiesel. I put the link in babelfish translator and the translation reads like all sales pitch and testimonials.


You still fail...

Posting text in german does nothing to help yourself. Try running your links through babelfish first.

All the Schur tests were run on canola oil. Bulk canola oil is not widely available and expensive here.

No commercial operators who considers themselves intelligent are going to waste time and money to play around with any silly oil thinning to use in their trucks. All these different forums I got hits for are almost all shill sites hyping products or diesel forums similar to TDIClub where the sheep all think they have found the answer by mixing everything and anything. The one common thing all these oil thinning sites taught me was there is a market for people who don't even want to go through the process of taking veggie oil and at least making good biodiesel from it. They even want to take short cuts on that. That's a new mindset to me.

You are 100% correct on one thing, I absolutely have no experience running WVO/SVO diesel fuel blends. I intend to keep it that way. I have no problem with commercial biodiesel. The one station in my area that sells biodiesel has B5 in summer and B2 in winter.

The more I read all the hits I got on veggie oil blending and thinning the more depressing it is to see all the snake oil out there. Lots of charlatans taking advantge of the green mentality and people's desire to come up with an easy to use solution to a complicated problem.

Thank you for educating me. I'm now of the mindset I should add Schur Ecodiesel, Biopower additives, Xado, and other magic solutions to the list with DSE of banned subjects.

Pass the acetone...

.

cooguyfish said:

I'm just throwing this out here as an extra research source, I drive a fuel truck for a living and my boss and I were talking about the possibility of making biodiesel and running his trucks on it.

My questions are,

-Where to find out about making biodiesel
-what kind is best? (I've heard of WVO and SVO)
-Does anyone know of someone with firsthand experience running a DT 466 E on biodiesel

Anything else you want to tell me would be great.

Click to expand...

I would just like to ignore the debate and answer the original poster's questions, as I'm sure he's waiting on:

1) This depends on what scale you want to do it. You may try looking on craigslist.org for classes in your area about making bio. That, or you can start using the "Dr Pepper Method", which makes 1 liter batches (to give you a feel on how to do it, and to show you where to go from there).
This is the Dr Pepper method: http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/makingasmallbatch/
2) In bang-for-buck, WVO will be the best. However, it requires filtration, water removal, titration, etc., and not to mention collecting it. You can never make an automated batch of bio with WVO as you can with SVo, as you'll always have to titrate.
3) I looked it up on Google, and found on biodiesel.org this:
"Engine Types Vary in
Performance on Biodiesel
Of the 16 International buses, 2 are
HUI injected (Dt466E’s) and have
increased about .5 MPG, the 4
Dt360’s and 7 Dt466’s each
increased 1.5 MPG and the 3 Dt408’s
increased about 1 MPG."
There are several other results; just look up dt466e biodiesel. Or, more specifically, dt466e biodiesel b99. Plenty of testimonials came up on the first page.

OK, it all comes down to this:

#1. Dont run VO unless you want your engine to look like this: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=186108

#2. If you make your own bio and use it in a truck in which downtime costs you thousands of dollars tyou must have a maticulous system in place to ensure that the fuel is of the utmost quality.

#3 If you have a large supply of VO for cheep then consider using it in a heater, not in your truck. There are kits out there that allow you to build units that will supplament your gass or electric heater for a building. They burn just about any flamible liquid. This includes huydraulic oil, WVO, SVO, biodiesel, Kerosine, waste engine oil, tramission fluid, the list goes on. They are not precission engines and they are cheep to fix and clean if something goes wrong! (Unlike the engine of your delivery truck)