1.4T vs. 1.8T Golf?

My buyback is about to be bought back and I was all set for a 1.4T Jetta yesterday until I found out it has a timing belt.
So I've been spending hours researching every option and just can't do a Corolla, Civic, Mazda 3, etc. The Mazda 6 jumps out a bit, but all fingers are pointing back to VW. I drive a TON (my 2009 TDI has 261,000 miles on it) and feel somewhat *****ed by VW.
Even so, might have to overlook the timing belt "issue" (an issue because I HATE anything other than routine maintenance due to worthless independent mechanics and oppressively expensive dealerships) and get the 1.4T Jetta (and probably just sell it at 150,000 miles) or maybe a 1.8T Golf (which seems like it might be a nicer car to drive than the Jetta anyway).
Thanks for any any thoughts and insight during this very trying time. Another option is to invent a car which I'm not ruling out.

The fact that the 1.4L DOES have a timing belt and the 1.8L DOES NOT is why the 1.4L is better.

VAG chains = Fail. Belts, easy peasy. They've got that tech down good.

oilhammer said:

The fact that the 1.4L DOES have a timing belt and the 1.8L DOES NOT is why the 1.4L is better.
VAG chains = Fail. Belts, easy peasy. They've got that tech down good.

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I might go with that. Thanks.

If they're close in purchase price, the Golf is a much better platform. Unless you can wait for the MQB Jetta to come out.
I also am a fan of hatchbacks and wagons, though.

If the Jetta is cheaper and "good enough" for you, it'll be a fine car. Its a step down, for sure, though.

Find a 2015 Golf TDI, take the "lease" option and buy it out. You'll be in the best platform and most efficient engine for $16k ish and have a nice extended warranty.
That is the best option, IMO.

I did not know - as OH points out - that the 1.8 used a timing CHAIN.

Would it be a fair statement - assuming an Alltrak or a GSW %M purchase apres buyback - that an extended warranty just might be wise?


ez sends

I prefer chains. I see them as non-maintenance parts.

If you get guide breakage, chain stretch, etc, you are the exception. For the most part timing chains last the life of the engine, from me and my family's car's have experienced.

surfstar said:

I prefer chains. I see them as non-maintenance parts.

If you get guide breakage, chain stretch, etc, you are the exception. For the most part timing chains last the life of the engine, from me and my family's car's have experienced.

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You've not owned many Volkswagens then.

I could bury a Jetta in all the broken guide rails, tensioners, and chains I have had to replace on VAG engines over the years, many of them did not even make it much past 150k miles, and the costs involved will WAY eclipse any timing belt routine PM. Besides, the newest belts are good for 150k anyway.

surfstar said:

I prefer chains. I see them as non-maintenance parts.

If you get guide breakage, chain stretch, etc, you are the exception. For the most part timing chains last the life of the engine, from me and my family's car's have experienced.

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probably because when the timing chain breaks, the engine's life is over. I'll live forever or die trying.

oilhammer said:

You've not owned many Volkswagens then.
I could bury a Jetta in all the broken guide rails, tensioners, and chains I have had to replace on VAG engines over the years, many of them did not even make it much past 150k miles, and the costs involved will WAY eclipse any timing belt routine PM. Besides, the newest belts are good for 150k anyway.

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Is there a logical explanation for why VW can't apparently manufacture a reliable timing chain mechanism? The engineering/physics can't be that mysterious.

NoSmoke said:

Is there a logical explanation for why VW can't apparently manufacture a reliable timing chain mechanism? The engineering/physics can't be that mysterious.

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25 years ago a simple short timing chain from crankshaft sprocket to in block single camshaft was a very reliable set up, better that timing belt set ups at the time. Those were good for 200-300k miles or more. At some point the domestic automakers tried a nylon coating one of the sprockets that all ended up in the oil pan at around 100k - but still kept working sometimes...

Now some of the 4-cam V-8's have a chain many times longer, a long torturous path guided by hydraulically actuated plastic coated guides all sometimes placed in inaccessible areas like on the back side of the heads plus add in VVT assemblies that also act on the chain. Some chains also drive oil pump and balance shafts- Lots of complication and stuff to go bad.

3fordasho said:

25 years ago a simple short timing chain from crankshaft sprocket to in block single camshaft was a very reliable set up, better that timing belt set ups at the time. Those were good for 200-300k miles or more. At some point the domestic automakers tried a nylon coating one of the sprockets that all ended up in the oil pan at around 100k - but still kept working sometimes...
Now some of the 4-cam V-8's have a chain many times longer, a long torturous path guided by hydraulically actuated plastic coated guides all sometimes placed in inaccessible areas like on the back side of the heads plus add in VVT assemblies that also act on the chain. Some chains also drive oil pump and balance shafts- Lots of complication and stuff to go bad.

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OK, understood, but the claim seems to be that other manufacturers can produce a reliable chain but VW can't (for some reason). Not that it may mean much but I once had an '83 Toyota Celica with a 2.4L four and an overhead chain driven cam. Had about 250K miles on it when I sold it and, the chain rattled a bit on cold start but was otherwise OK.

The 22R and RE engine often wore their chains out, so much so that they'd wear right through the cooling passages in the cover and fill the crankcase with coolant. That was VERY common thing. The 20R and the early 22R had a double roller chain, which lasted a reasonable length of time (many of those vehicles rusted away long before the chain wore out) but the later 22R, for reasons unknown to me, went BACK to a single roller type, like the older '70s era R engines used. They were better than the old ones, but still wore out.

In addition to doing them countless times over the years, I did them to all my own Toyota trucks. One got done TWICE, once by the original owner, then again by me. Truck is still on the road, closing in on 400k miles.

I assume all the good German engineers for timing chains work at MB or BMW, and poor VAG got the D-students. Good news is, VAG's belt drives are stellar. They work well, and rarely ever are problematic, and have an ever increasing service interval. Too bad we won't see any more new ones.

I don't know about the coolant leak, but I had a 22RE chain wear to the point it jumped a tooth . . .

- Tim

Too bad they won't put the 1.4 TSI in a base Golf. IMHO the Trendline should be with the 1.4, those wishing to blow more money than they need to on a car can have the 1.8. I'm perfectly happy with my Trendline+ with Apple CarPlay and just about everything else one could possibly need in a car, in a much more practical hatchback format.

The 1.4 TSI would be more than up to the task. Same torque, virtually, as the 1.8 TSI manual, same horsepower as the newest generation TDI. Torque available down nice and low. Drove the 122 hp engine in a Mk VI Golf in the UK 5 years ago, and thought it was a great engine and well adapted to that size of car. With even more HP and torque, it would be great in the Mk VII Golf

As it is I do like my 1.8 TSI, but it's more than I need.