Amsoil In this Thread only

DEO + 'Project Passat' + 10,276 Miles

I officially declare this oil to be a winner!

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Ok as a student here is what I think - your chip accounts for the Cr 4 and the Cu of 4 otherwise they would be less. DB has stated many times that is cylinder pressure correct, on the rods. This is also a 350k motor, I do not understand the Si - you will have to splain that to me. If its a leak were is the Na, did the oil neutralize it. Soot, is that high for a 10k OCI, is it the age, the type of fuel or your mods. Or is it a combination of all above. The oil is definitely a winner and better than AFL. I am convinced that the new 100% syn Motul will not perform as well as the old Motul. I have not seen a VOA for it but I bet it looks similar to AFL. I can not remeber how this compares to HDD but if it were me I would stay with DEO and 10k OCI. Its very hard to meet the 07/05 505.01 spec which I think is related to emssions. We have a gentleman who is going to run DEO in a newer PD and that will be the test. Our 06 motors are similar in age, and both DSG's, so I will post the AFL next to his DEO.

No chip, WJ. I have stock programming, Bosio Sprint520 nozzles, and a '96 non-cooled EGR with stock settings.

The company's 5W-30 Diesel is still my favorite, but in my higher-mileage, more soot, pickup-truck wannabe, I'm sticking with DEO. My bypass filter is on-line now, and after 5K miles of a 'cleanup' test, I'll be draining the oil, installing a new EaO, new EaBP, and refilling with DEO.

Oh...and my last trip before I pulled the sample was a mite heavier than normal... (some of the cargo was already removed...and you can't see what's in the front seat and passenger floor...)

No slam on Motul, WJ. Their first gen 505.01 were Group III as are others. The 2nd gen should have very similar chemistry and similar performance to AFL - which started out as a high-performance CI-4+ product before having chemistry limited.

It's like the move from Gen 1 to Gen 2 505.01 products was a performance increase, while in some ways the move from the old AFL to the 505.01 compliant AFL was a performance decrease.

AndyH said:

It's like the move from Gen 1 to Gen 2 505.01 products was a performance increase

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How so? The previous spec was 505.01/505.00/500.00? The 500.00 was an old outdated spec. I doubt there is a 505.00 oil that doesn't meet 502.00. A lot of people just want to stock one oil and this new 505.01/505.00/502.00 spec allows it.

What's the performance increase?

mparker326 said:

How so? The previous spec was 505.01/505.00/500.00? The 500.00 was an old outdated spec. I doubt there is a 505.00 oil that doesn't meet 502.00. A lot of people just want to stock one oil and this new 505.01/505.00/502.00 spec allows it.

What's the performance increase?

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500.00 and 505.00 are very old - they predate the ACEA. The Gen 1 products were mostly Group III - because they could be. The Gen 2 products replaced 500.00 with 502.00 - a stronger, more modern spec with new requirements. They also picked up ACEA Cx - which requires strong performance with emissions-safe additive chemical limits. They've got at least some PAO/ester as well.

I think like AMSOIL's reformulation of their 5W-40 Euro, the other Gen 2 505.01 products were clean-sheet-of-paper redesigns.

I think DEO is a great oil did from day one - want to use in my Kubota and my Lombardini. Got 1.5 gals of ACD left which I may sell. Amsoil its made in America by Americans and the money stays home, thats a plus to have our cake and eat it to. Well 2200 miles to AFL and another UOA on Motul.

AndyH said:

I hit 10,250 with DEO yesterday. The sample's heading to the lab Monday. News at 11..

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It's official - I really like this oil! Use CJ-4 if you have soot!
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=1621891&postcount=47

AndyH said:

The Gen 2 products replaced 500.00 with 502.00 - a stronger, more modern spec with new requirements. They also picked up ACEA Cx - which requires strong performance with emissions-safe additive chemical limits. They've got at least some PAO/ester as well.

I think like AMSOIL's reformulation of their 5W-40 Euro, the other Gen 2 505.01 products were clean-sheet-of-paper redesigns.

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So what is this Castrol product? Is it a Gen 2? If so why doesn't it have ACEA Cx? They don't list ACEA Cx on their German webpage for another 505.01/505.00/502.00 oil they have either.

Are you sure the Gen 2 products have to have ACEA Cx? Or is there no Gen 2 Castrol product? Or is this an attempt for dealers/individuals to stock less oils?

I don't think they have to have one of the C ratings - it's just been part of the line-up from the 'A' company, and the Elf/Motul products. The bottle doesn't have to list all the specs the product has passed - only the ones the marketing folks say should be listed depending on the target market.

Without having the specification documents, we're stuck looking at the listed approvals and specifications and trying to guess what they did.

I think product/spec consolidation is part of the plan as well.

I'll reference this post from someone that knows the ins and outs of the chemistry much better than I. I'll defer to the practicing chemical engineer that's been doing this oil thing for more than 13 years.

mparker326 said:

So what is this Castrol product? Is it a Gen 2? If so why doesn't it have ACEA Cx? They don't list ACEA Cx on their German webpage for another 505.01/505.00/502.00 oil they have either.

Are you sure the Gen 2 products have to have ACEA Cx? Or is there no Gen 2 Castrol product? Or is this an attempt for dealers/individuals to stock less oils?

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So you believe I wouldl get lower wear numbers with the new Motul vs the old Motul - I am not so sure, I wish we had a VOA, and the old Motul is cst 14.4 and the new is 13.7. If its like AFL it will have lower zinc, phos, cal, and mag. and be thinner. Well there are a few folks using the new 505.01 I sure hope they post some UOA's.

I have not heard a thing from NAPA, ADVANCE, or the East coast distribution on Top TEC 4200 507.00 -504.00, Top Tec 4100 505.01 505.00 502.00.

wjdell said:

So you believe I wouldl get lower wear numbers with the new Motul vs the old Motul - I am not so sure, I wish we had a VOA, and the old Motul is cst 14.4 and the new is 13.7. If its like AFL it will have lower zinc, phos, cal, and mag. and be thinner. Well there are a few folks using the new 505.01 I sure hope they post some UOA's.

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Sorry, WJ and mparker - I could have communicated that better.

WJ - I think your wear numbers with any of the Gen 2 505.01 oils will be very similar once you've gotten to the 2nd and subsequent oil change with that oil. I trust Ted's view that these products are more alike than different. That seemed to be the case with the Gen 1 products as well.

AndyH said:

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Hi Andy,
Can you please tell me a little about this graph? Generally, do these wear rates/life spans apply to all engines? Or is this something much more specific?

bryankwalton said:

Hi Andy,
Can you please tell me a little about this graph? Generally, do these wear rates/life spans apply to all engines? Or is this something much more specific?

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Hi Bryan,

It's a very generic chart from an oil analysis course workbook. It's designed just to show that things change over the life of a piece of equipment. It certainly isn't TDI specific.

OK, thanks.

Andy, thanks for all the good info. As you know I was anxiously awaiting your UOA's, but the VOA's provide a good foundation to see first hand the true contents of these oils. I am coming up on my 3rd UOA for the AFL for 10K of mostly Winter torture. My 2nd UOA @ 7500 was actually better that the 1st @ 5K due to proper test procedure. I posted it a while back along with the first if you care to comment.
JB

jb give us that link

I was happy to see your 2nd report and look forward to your third! I'm not up on the exact 'voodoo' that happens, but the 2nd interval seems to give a better indication of performance than the first.

JB - THANK YOU for putting up with all the utter BS early on and giving this oil a shot!

WJ, sorry about that. I don't know how the original thead got lost.
"UOA for Amsoil AFL" but it's by dhdenny. I had to do a seach as this thread is no longer listed. What I need to do is learn how to post a URL. I'm sure there's a sticky or how-to somewhere.
JB

just email it to me my email is in my file

Found it!

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=146741&page=5

Looks like someone I saw in a bar last Friday...

Did you go home with her?

AndyH said:

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FWIW - only 20ppm of Fe wear occurred during the 5063 to 10276 mile OSI. that means that during those miles your Fe wear rate was only 3.84 ppm / 1000 miles. is this oil still in the car? how much make-up oil has it needed?

also, i just read in another thread that "I've been using the EaO15 in my B4." did you have the EaO in during the AFL run?

I've installed my DG bypass filter, the full flow filter is Wix, and changed the oil with euro amsoil 5W 40 about a month ago in my Jetta 2000 TDI, do you think I could go safely to 12,000 miles with this oil and DG filter?

Regards

Tisey06 said:

I've installed my DG bypass filter, the full flow filter is Wix, and changed the oil with euro amsoil 5W 40 about a month ago in my Jetta 2000 TDI, do you think I could go safely to 12,000 miles with this oil and DG filter?

Regards

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Oil analysis will be your best guide beyond the 1 year or 10,000 mile normal interval.

I ran this oil to 15,000 miles in my '97. It was pretty dead at that point. With your bypass filter keeping the oil clean, and the additional quart of oil, I would think that you could get 12K miles standing on your head, and that the oil would look fine at 15K. The 1 year or 10,000 mile full-flow filter change might lengthen service if you have to add some makeup oil for the filter change. Beyond that I couldn't say - oil analysis will be your guide.

If you're interested in significantly extending oil change intervals, you might consider the HDD 5W-30 or AMO 10W-40. They are both CI-4+ long-drain candidates. You should be able to get 20K intervals easily without a bypass filter - and significantly longer than that with the bypass.

If you aren't interested in long drains, replace the AFL with DEO CJ-4 oil next time around - same price, better protection.

Take care,
Andy

This is a great thread. I just recently changed my oil over to Amsoil DEO and definitely saw a performance increase over what what in there before. I think I'll stick with this for the time being in my '02 Beetle. I've got an FS2500 bypass filter that just arrived and I'm looking forward to installing that and seeing the results. Anyone in here have that filter? If so, how did you go about installing it? I have an idea of how I would like to do it, but just wanted to pick some brains first. Glad I found this site.

SUNRG said:

FWIW - only 20ppm of Fe wear occurred during the 5063 to 10276 mile OSI. that means that during those miles your Fe wear rate was only 3.84 ppm / 1000 miles. is this oil still in the car? how much make-up oil has it needed?

also, i just read in another thread that "I've been using the EaO15 in my B4." did you have the EaO in during the AFL run?

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This oil is still in the car. Makeup oil prior to the 10K sample was just over 1/2 quart. A bit of that was from the 5K sample.

At 10K, I pulled a sample, installed the bypass filter, and added 1 1/2 quarts to cover the filter, hoses, and the 10K sample.

My plan is to run the oil to 15K, sample and check for a solids reduction with the old technology bypass-filter element (BE90), then spin-on a new-tech bypass filter (EaBP90) and run it another 5K. That will give me a filter comparison of sorts. It won't be an indication of oil life potential, as the bypass install and the later filter change will add just over a quart of fresh oil.

Yes - I'm on my third interval with the EaO filter. Again - not recommended due to the out of spec bypass valve setting. VW wants a 30psi differential; this filter is 7-9psi.

I consider my numbers to be worst case -- I wanted numbers for AFL that proved it was good for a severe 10K interval - so I ran it beyond 14K in an old 'work truck wanna-be' car with high soot and an out of spec oil filter.

If you're interested in significantly extending oil change intervals, you might consider the HDD 5W-30 or AMO 10W-40. They are both CI-4+ long-drain candidates. You should be able to get 20K intervals easily without a bypass filter - and significantly longer than that with the bypass









Hi Andy H


So that means I can't use the D.G filter in conjunction with the HDD-5w30 or the AMO 10W-40? What brand are these oils? sorry about the questioning but I am new and I am learning, thanks for all your replies