VW Rejecting Non-Clean Titles?

I'm sure that criminal elements have tried to take advantage of this scenario and submit claims for vehicles.

LRTDI said:

I'm sure that criminal elements have tried to take advantage of this scenario and submit claims for vehicles.

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How so? How would a "criminal element" take advantage of this? I've heard this a few times but don't really see how this could be done.

We turned rebuilt title in yesterday,no issues,but the offer took 3 months since paperwork was approved.

miltak said:

We turned rebuilt title in yesterday,no issues,but the offer took 3 months since paperwork was approved.

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Ah, good to know. Do you mind sharing when you actually got the offer extended to you?

lvrpl said:

Ah, good to know. Do you mind sharing when you actually got the offer extended to you?

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And how many times did you submit the documents before they accepted them?

We received the offer little over 2 weeks ago.I don't remember if there was issue on this one accepting documents,but sometimes I have to resubmit the same document 2-3 times,before the right person looks at it and it goes green.

miltak said:

We received the offer little over 2 weeks ago.I don't remember if there was issue on this one accepting documents,but sometimes I have to resubmit the same document 2-3 times,before the right person looks at it and it goes green.

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Good to know, thanks.

Well, we'll see what happens next. I'm sending a package to the claims review committee, containing copies of the salvage title, the original bill of sale, the police report from the accident, and a letter outlining the details. I wonder how much of my problem is the actual title history: Purchased in Illinois in June 2014. Moved to PA in October 2016, titled and registered in PA in October, accident in November, salvage title issued Dec 20.

duratitus said:

I spoke with Ajay, who is a Case Clerk with at Lieff Cabraser Heimann & Bernstein and forwarded the letter from VW that is in post #1.

He initially said that VW is trying to crack down on people who they think are buying junkyard cars to fix and sell back.
He agreed with me that ultimately, if the car was registered with a clean title on 9/18/2015 it is still eligible regardless of title status.

The attorney he works with @ Lieff Cabraser Heimann & Bernstein was on vacation at the time, so he sent me this response after the attorney "Phong" returned,

[FONT=&quot]"Hi Titus,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Just spoke with my attorney, Phong. He explained to me that VW is coming up with a solution for these vehicles with salvaged titles (our hypothesis about them cracking-down was correct), but given that your titles were issued after the date of the scandal, you should eventually be eligible for the buyback. My attorney told me to advise you to write to the Claims Review Committee explaining your situation. I’ve included their information below, and make sure to clearly indicate that your vehicles are eligible per the settlement – with all the necessary detail – and the sooner you complete the letter, the sooner it will be reviewed."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
Funny thing is that he originally told me that I would have to wait for VW to actually deny a claim before I could appeal to the Claims Review Committee.

I'm thinking that VW is going to delay these claims until they absolutely have to settle them at the end of the claims period, which would be the end of 2018.

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This is a long thread and I didn't read all the replies but I appears to me everyone is reading into salvage title vehicles incorrectly. I bought 2 salvage vehicles earlier this year, not from a junkyard, but from an insurance lot that sells to dealers. There's nothing immoral about buying a car from an insurance auction lot. When a car is "totaled" it's purely an insurance industry term for a vehicle that's too costly for them to fix. It means nothing in regard to the sustainability of the vehicle as a good, safe vehicle. I was able to fix my cars on my own for much less money than what a company would charge. Anyone is welcome to do that. There are 3rd party dealers that will auction on your behalf and deliver the car you won to you.

A junkyard is where a dealer, a junkyard dealer in this case, buys cars at auction and them dismantles and sells/scraps the parts. Usually these are cars that are damaged beyond the point of repair. A salvage title car does not mean it has ever been in a junkyard, and most likely it never has.

So essentially, I bought my 2 TDIs from a dealer, who bought it on my behalf at an auction, and delivered it to me. I then fixed it up, registered it, and have title. Explain to me how this is dubious or against the spirit of the settlement. Cars at auction are designed to be sold to someone, and that someone is likely not a junkyard if it's a fairly new, repairable car. This is nothing new and to think VW lawyers didn't expect that is ridiculous.

The owners of the cars that got salvaged by their insurance companies had every opportunity to buy it back themselves for the salvage value, if they wanted to, and could have fixed it up themselves and sold it back to VW. But they didn't, and I picked it up instead. There's nothing inappropriate, immoral, or against the spirit of the settlement about that.

The language in the settlement is very clear about eligibility of salvage title vehicles, and in my case I comply. I fail to seen the reason for any dodging by VW, of recently salvage title cars, if in fact they actually are.

fookin, allow me to pose the question: What, exactly, is the eligibility of othewise operable salvage title vehicles? The language states "engine runs and drivable under it's own power" or something similar. Does that mean it has to pass safety inspection? Or just drivable across the dealer's lot? This is the crux of the matter. VW seems to be taking one look at salvage titles and rejecting the vehicles with no explanation.

fookin said:

This is a long thread and I didn't read all the replies but I appears to me everyone is reading into salvage title vehicles incorrectly. I bought 2 salvage vehicles earlier this year, not from a junkyard, but from an insurance lot that sells to dealers. There's nothing immoral about buying a car from an insurance auction lot. When a car is "totaled" it's purely an insurance industry term for a vehicle that's too costly for them to fix. It means nothing in regard to the sustainability of the vehicle as a good, safe vehicle. I was able to fix my cars on my own for much less money than what a company would charge. Anyone is welcome to do that. There are 3rd party dealers that will auction on your behalf and deliver the car you won to you.

A junkyard is where a dealer, a junkyard dealer in this case, buys cars at auction and them dismantles and sells/scraps the parts. Usually these are cars that are damaged beyond the point of repair. A salvage title car does not mean it has ever been in a junkyard, and most likely it never has.

So essentially, I bought my 2 TDIs from a dealer, who bought it on my behalf at an auction, and delivered it to me. I then fixed it up, registered it, and have title. Explain to me how this is dubious or against the spirit of the settlement. Cars at auction are designed to be sold to someone, and that someone is likely not a junkyard if it's a fairly new, repairable car. This is nothing new and to think VW lawyers didn't expect that is ridiculous.

The owners of the cars that got salvaged by their insurance companies had every opportunity to buy it back themselves for the salvage value, if they wanted to, and could have fixed it up themselves and sold it back to VW. But they didn't, and I picked it up instead. There's nothing inappropriate, immoral, or against the spirit of the settlement about that.

The language in the settlement is very clear about eligibility of salvage title vehicles, and in my case I comply. I fail to seen the reason for any dodging by VW, of recently salvage title cars, if in fact they actually are.

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I totally agree with you on this one 100%

fookin said:

There's nothing immoral about buying a car from an insurance auction lot. When a car is "totaled" it's purely an insurance industry term for a vehicle that's too costly for them to fix.

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IMO If its too costly to fix and be on the road, it shouldn't be eligible for full restitution.

But I know the words of the settlement don't agree with that.

Best of luck.

First VW has no moral compass or compassion. They are just like every other large corporation, out to maximize profits for shareholders.

As for the games they are playing with unclean titles, their view is to see if they make the 85% target by the deadline. If they do, then all bets are off that they will not drag their feet on buybacks and restitution. If they have started dragging their feet on this now, then they must be pretty confident that they will meet their target. Optionally, their lawyers must of found something in the wording of the settlement that gives them the wiggle room to mess with those dealing with unclean titles. The court can only push so far and if it gets nasty, VW may think relitigating is in their best interest, especially if the gov't agencies don't care to get involved under this current administration.

jims2321 said:

First VW has no moral compass or compassion. They are just like every other large corporation, out to maximize profits for shareholders.

As for the games they are playing with unclean titles, their view is to see if they make the 85% target by the deadline. If they do, then all bets are off that they will not drag their feet on buybacks and restitution. If they have started dragging their feet on this now, then they must be pretty confident that they will meet their target. Optionally, their lawyers must of found something in the wording of the settlement that gives them the wiggle room to mess with those dealing with unclean titles. The court can only push so far and if it gets nasty, VW may think relitigating is in their best interest, especially if the gov't agencies don't care to get involved under this current administration.

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I get your frustration - I'm frustrated also with how long this is taking for these titles - but this is a whole lot of speculation with some information that contradicts what has been officially agreed by the settlement.

Even if they hit 85%, they are still legally obligated to take back cars over that threshold. If they're at 85% but you've submitted a claim that meets the terms of the settlement, your claim still gets fulfilled. Period.

And I guess it's possible that their lawyers found wording that gives them wiggle room on non-clean titles...but that's pure, unencumbered speculation. Which contradicts all evidence to this point in time, by the way. All indications are that they still will/have to take back these titles (per the terms of the settlement), but they seem to be giving them more scrutiny and taking longer. That could change in the future to VW not taking them at all, but there's no reason to believe that's happened yet.

^^Come on, folks. If there was not a court mandated pot of buyback gold at the end of this process there would be no need for these long winded explanations of why this is all quite ethical. Whatever helps you sleep like a baby at night, go for it.

Mythdoc said:

^^Come on, folks. If there was not a court mandated pot of buyback gold at the end of this process there would be no need for these long winded explanations of why this is all quite ethical. Whatever helps you sleep like a baby at night, go for it.

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My post had nothing to do with whether it was ethical or not. Try again.

That's a different and valid discussion, but not at all what I was commenting on.

halbert said:

fookin, allow me to pose the question: What, exactly, is the eligibility of othewise operable salvage title vehicles? The language states "engine runs and drivable under it's own power" or something similar. Does that mean it has to pass safety inspection? Or just drivable across the dealer's lot? This is the crux of the matter. VW seems to be taking one look at salvage titles and rejecting the vehicles with no explanation.

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The eligibility question has been discussed ad nauseam on this website so you are welcome to research it. One is EXCLUDED if... "Owners whose Volkswagen or Audi 2.0-liter TDI vehicle (1) could not be driven under the power of its own 2.0-liter TDI engine on June 28, 2016, or (2) had a branded title of assembled, dismantled, flood, junk, rebuilt, reconstructed, or salvage on September 18, 2015, AND was acquired from a junkyard or salvage yard after September 18, 2015;

lvrpl said:

My post had nothing to do with whether it was ethical or not. Try again.



That's a different and valid discussion, but not at all what I was commenting on.

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Yes, I know. The ^^ not directed, in this instance, at the post directly above me. Cheers.

fookin said:

The eligibility question has been discussed ad nauseam on this website so you are welcome to research it. One is EXCLUDED if... "Owners whose Volkswagen or Audi 2.0-liter TDI vehicle (1) could not be driven under the power of its own 2.0-liter TDI engine on June 28, 2016, or (2) had a branded title of assembled, dismantled, flood, junk, rebuilt, reconstructed, or salvage on September 18, 2015, AND was acquired from a junkyard or salvage yard after September 18, 2015;

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And yet, VW is refusing to honor the plain language above, and are offering no explanation of what is incorrect with the submitted documentation other than saying "Your title document is the incorrect document". Repeatedly.

lvrpl said:

I get your frustration - I'm frustrated also with how long this is taking for these titles - but this is a whole lot of speculation with some information that contradicts what has been officially agreed by the settlement.

Even if they hit 85%, they are still legally obligated to take back cars over that threshold. If they're at 85% but you've submitted a claim that meets the terms of the settlement, your claim still gets fulfilled. Period.

And I guess it's possible that their lawyers found wording that gives them wiggle room on non-clean titles...but that's pure, unencumbered speculation. Which contradicts all evidence to this point in time, by the way. All indications are that they still will/have to take back these titles (per the terms of the settlement), but they seem to be giving them more scrutiny and taking longer. That could change in the future to VW not taking them at all, but there's no reason to believe that's happened yet.

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I would not put it past VW if they reach the 85% threshold, to drag their feet until Jan' 2019 and say, 'Guess what we are done, best of luck with your lawsuit to try and collect, we have met our goal for the EPA/CARB.' It just like those arrogant german pr!cks to do something like that.

Joining this thread, as my BB is dangling since May 2nd with documents accepted and green checks. Will be my second BB, just as eligible as the first that has already been returned.

Here is the (SOL) response I got from class counsel on June 1st:

Hi ******,

It appears that the claims administrator is taking a closer look at vehicles with branded title, particularly where there are multiple claims coming from the same person. At this point, there is not really anything you can do until VW makes a final decision about your vehicle.

Shelby Smith | Hagens Berman Sobol Shapiro LLP | Direct: (206) 268-9370

Maybe I should reach out to the CRC and send some docs, though I wouldn't want to gum things up any further; perhaps anyone who does reach CRC and hears back can chime in.

I've been thinking for quite a while now about making the trip to visit the Volkswagen headquarters in Auburn, MI to see if I can get some real answers since the document review team works out of that location.

Has anyone that lives in that area ever tried to stop in for a visit there?

Maybe we should set a date, and all those that are getting the runaround from VW should show up at their headquarters.

I really cannot understand why our attorneys, who are being paid millions to represent us owners, can't seem to get the nerve up to ask the judge to mandate a timeframe for VW to process eligible claims, or else deny them.

There is no doubt that Lieff Cabraser Heimann & Bernstein, LLP is well aware that VW is purposely delaying claims, and it's a shame that they don't do something about it!

jims2321 said:

I would not put it past VW if they reach the 85% threshold, to drag their feet until Jan' 2019 and say, 'Guess what we are done, best of luck with your lawsuit to try and collect, we have met our goal for the EPA/CARB.' It just like those arrogant german pr!cks to do something like that.

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The court has ordered them to settle all eligible claims before 2019, so they don't have the liberty to try what you're describing. It is obvious that they are dragging their feet, but they can't keep dragging them forever. They will ultimately have to resolve any claims that are submitted during the claim period which runs until 9/1/2018, and they will have to resolve them by the end of 2018.

I would agree that they could, and likely will delay claims they'd rather not process right up to the deadline though.

duratitus said:

I would agree that they could, and likely will delay claims they'd rather not process right up to the deadline though.

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All's fair in love, war, and money. Maybe you guys can find an arbitrager who is willing to purchase your stalled assets (at a discount) in exchange for the risk and hassle of making VW eventually pay up...?

My cars will be worth $10K - $20K more next year because of the 12,500 annual mileage allowance, so if VW wants to play the waiting game I'm happy to oblige, although that's not the way I expected them to respond.

That's $10-20k in the aggregate? Because there's no way a single car goes up that much due to mileage in a year.

DanB36 said:

That's $10-20k in the aggregate? Because there's no way a single car goes up that much due to mileage in a year.

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Every mileage bracket on 3.0L is around $750-900 I think. It takes 4 months to get into next bracket (1,250x4=5,000 bracket) so one year will be 3 brackets or approximately $2250-2700 per car for a year of waiting.

Just played around with numbers in portal: 2010 Q7 Premium with 88K miles July 2017 payoff is $32,800 and August 2018 is $35,200 which is $2,400 in 1 year and 1 month.

Now multiply this by 5,10,15 cars that some people have.


Only question is if it makes sense to tie up money for so long or use it to buy more cars

740GLE said:

IMO If its too costly to fix and be on the road, it shouldn't be eligible for full restitution.
But I know the words of the settlement don't agree with that.
Best of luck.

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The only basis for a buyback is that a car IS on the road, registered, and licensed. How much it cost to fix is irrelevant and only interesting.

The claims office told me that my claim for 2 TDIs is taking a long time because there is an existing claim against the same VIN. Those claims are for restitution because those two cars were totaled late 2016 wherein that previous owner is entitled to restitution payment per the settlement. For car1 I was told the other party's check should be going out in a couple weeks and that would allow my claim for buyback to proceed. For car2 they are waiting for title paperwork or something from the previous owner and it's not clear how long that will take to settle. She said they have until Sept this year to submit necessary documents.

I read/skimmed through the settlement details and couldn't find information regarding how Sept 2017 is a deadline for car2 previous owner to submit title information to the claim website.

So for anyone awaiting processing for a salvage title car it may be due to a duplicate claim of restitution that they need to process first before they consider your buyback.

fookin said:

The claims office told me that my claim for 2 TDIs is taking a long time because there is an existing claim against the same VIN. Those claims are for restitution because those two cars were totaled late 2016 wherein that previous owner is entitled to restitution payment per the settlement. For car1 I was told the other party's check should be going out in a couple weeks and that would allow my claim for buyback to proceed. For car2 they are waiting for title paperwork or something from the previous owner and it's not clear how long that will take to settle. She said they have until Sept this year to submit necessary documents.

I read/skimmed through the settlement details and couldn't find information regarding how Sept 2017 is a deadline for car1 previous owner to submit title information to the claim website.

So for anyone awaiting processing for a salvage title car it may be due to a duplicate claim of restitution that they need to process first before they consider your buyback.

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Interesting - so for your first car (where the previous owner totaled it and is applying fro just the restitution), did they say if you'll get the buyback plus restitution? Or only the buyback amount?