Extreme cold and your fuel economy

2.2TDI · Jan 21, 2014

Well, southern ontario got hit with another cold spell, and where I am currently the temperature in the morning was -27 Celsius with a high of -18... And it's not getting warmer for at least another few days. Short school commute of 13km and my consumption has been bad, around 6 to 7 l/100km (I'm not surprised by this) ...just curious to see what others get in these sort of temperatures

Cogen Man · Jan 21, 2014

I really can't say. My eyes are frozen over.

Thank God for bum heaters, winter grill blocks and coolant heaters. These are temps I remember from when I was a little guy. I'm a member of the OFC. Now what does that stand for.

TJGarvin · Jan 22, 2014

-29 in Barrie this morning. Commute to Oakville. 90 km one way. I'm managing to get it to 5.2 to 5.5 l/100km. Mainly due to the time I travel, though. Leave the house around 5:30 AM and arrive in Oakville about 6:30. At that time I'm ahead of most of the traffic and I manage to maintain 100 kph for most of it. I do worse on the way home as I'm into traffic through Toronto on the same route.

jettawreck · Jan 22, 2014

Here in northern Mn it's been a cold (colder than usual) December and January to date.
looking back at my fills over this time it's obvious and expected to see a drop, but even with a lot of sub -20F temps my tank average commuting to work/home has stayed above 48.65 mpg. Car is parked overnight in unheated garage (no FrostHeater use) and usually outside during the work day (occasional FrostHeater use). The commute trip is 40 miles each way. Thermostat is good and the radiator is fully covered with coroplast.
Fairly minimal drop of 5-7 mpg from my typical mileage in non freezing season. One thing that makes it not directly comparable is I tend to slow down a bit more in the extreme cold. Scan Gauge shows a significant mileage drop over 60 mph when it's very cold and/or until the car is well warmed up. Keep the cabin blower fan turned down to low setting until coolant temp gets above 150 helps getting the engine temp up near normal and enjoy the heated seats.

fruitcakesa · Jan 22, 2014

The last fillups in both cars yielded 38-39mpg ,down 10-20% from normal.
Really cold temps, snow tires and a lot of short trips , I really can't complain.

Oilerlord · Jan 22, 2014

I logged my worst tank with the JSW - 29.8 MPG. I can't speak to the older TDI's but my FE has suffered over the winter. We're now having some mild weather; looks like the next tank will be back around 40 MPG.

kjclow · Jan 22, 2014

Cogen Man said:
I'm a member of the OFC. Now what does that stand for.

Office of Frozen Canadians?

Even down here in NC, I saw a 5-10 mpg drop with the single digit temps.

PacketHauler · Jan 22, 2014

jettawreck said:
Here in northern Mn it's been a cold (colder than usual) December and January to date.
looking back at my fills over this time it's obvious and expected to see a drop, but even with a lot of sub -20F temps my tank average commuting to work/home has stayed above 48.65 mpg. Car is parked overnight in unheated garage (no FrostHeater use) and usually outside during the work day (occasional FrostHeater use). The commute trip is 40 miles each way. Thermostat is good and the radiator is fully covered with coroplast.
Fairly minimal drop of 5-7 mpg from my typical mileage in non freezing season. One thing that makes it not directly comparable is I tend to slow down a bit more in the extreme cold. Scan Gauge shows a significant mileage drop over 60 mph when it's very cold and/or until the car is well warmed up. Keep the cabin blower fan turned down to low setting until coolant temp gets above 150 helps getting the engine temp up near normal and enjoy the heated seats.

I have to ask the question since your a fellow Minnesotan, where do you buy your winter diesel? That you still get great mileage and can start your car in -20F no problem?

Oilerlord · Jan 22, 2014

kjclow said:
Office of Frozen Canadians?

Nope. OFC is group of guys that stand outside naked in -25 temps and scream "Oh, F*** it's Cold!

TDIGAZ · Jan 22, 2014

Cogen Man said:
I'm a member of the OFC. Now what does that stand for.

Office of Frozen Canadians? .... nice one "kjclow"

My turn... "Overly Frigid Commuters? "

Drive On!

1998redwagon · Jan 22, 2014

PacketHauler said:
I have to ask the question since your a fellow Minnesotan, where do you buy your winter diesel? That you still get great mileage and can start your car in -20F no problem?

iirc jettawreck lives near grand rapids and drives an older tdi version that started with better mileage (pump duse?) i think gets fuel from the sa up on the hill in town. sa always advertises on the marquee when they start selling winterized fuel. i get mine from m&h simply because they have diesel nozzles that fit my passat. speaking with the m&h folks they blend 80/20 plus an additive to get to -40f (or c really). good thing too cuz during the last spell we got down to -36f at home. it started but it wasnt real happy about it.

pparks1 · Jan 22, 2014

I've gone from getting 42-44MPG in the summer, to my last 3 tanks at 34.7, 33.9 and 32.7. It's been 0-20F, lots of snow, I've got new snow tires, etc.

PacketHauler · Jan 22, 2014

1998redwagon said:
iirc jettawreck lives near grand rapids and drives an older tdi version that started with better mileage (pump duse?) i think gets fuel from the sa up on the hill in town. sa always advertises on the marquee when they start selling winterized fuel. i get mine from m&h simply because they have diesel nozzles that fit my passat. speaking with the m&h folks they blend 80/20 plus an additive to get to -40f (or c really). good thing too cuz during the last spell we got down to -36f at home. it started but it wasnt real happy about it.

Good to know, I've seen SA advertise that their 'Nordic Winter Diesel' is good to -40F, but that is tested on a 40 micron filter, which is nowhere near what is in our little cars, so not sure what that would work out to...unless someone has a conversion chart.

Pretty amazing that just a couple hundred miles north can be 20 degrees cooler than my part of the state. My hat is off to you all in the north.

eb2143 · Jan 22, 2014

Small hit in mileage once I'm up to operating temperature; in other words, I've had a few 50 mpg tanks this winter if vast majority are long highway trips. These probably would have been 53 mpg tanks in summertime. But in normal driving when car rarely gets up to operating temperature, a cold spell tank knocks me down to 46 mpg average from 49-50 in summertime.

jettawreck · Jan 22, 2014

PacketHauler said:
I have to ask the question since your a fellow Minnesotan, where do you buy your winter diesel? That you still get great mileage and can start your car in -20F no problem?

I buy most of my fuel where it's cheapest. And since I commute for work from Grand Rapids to Hibbing, fuel has generally been cheaper in Hibbing. Either at a local corner Spur station or Murphy/WalMart, sometimes Edwards Oil. It doesn't matter, most of it all comes from the same distribution guys up here. If I buy fuel in Rapids it's at Holiday or Davis Oil on the west end of town, but seldom. Only use some PS additive when it's really cold mostly as peace of mind. I truly seem to get better numbers w/o using any additive(s) in warm weather and have many tanks logged to make that claim, but whatever works, right?

Side note: gas is currently 3.299/gal at home and 40 miles away at work it's 3.049/gal. This has been typical spread for some time now. Diesel doesn't vary near as much, but last weekend on the way up to I Falls diesel was 4.599/ gal most everywhere northwest of Deer River. Wow, the loggers and truckers up that way are getting hosed! Diesel was 3.759 at Murphy when I filled Monday. 690.5 miles/14.117 gal to the rim=48.91 mpg for the tank.

Car doesn't sit out much except at work and if it's below -0F I either start it a couple times during the day or if possible I get it inside the cold warehouse or plug in the FrostHeater for a couple hours before quitting time if there is parking available. Car overnights in the unheated garage at home which helps a lot. Even at -30F, the garage never got less than 15*.
Keeping the speeds down, advanced injection timing with the bigger nozzles and opportune driving make for the only known mpg enhancements. And yes, the older VE type ALH engined cars do better mileage than the newer ones.

It never got above -0F today and the wind was howling (but nothing like out in the plains). Forecast for -25 tonite, again.

BlankThis · Jan 22, 2014

Getting low to mid 30s. Driving <10km to the train without EGR so I'm hardly up to temp before I get out. Sits for 10 hours then the same deal home.

thebigarniedog · Jan 22, 2014

So much for global warming. The last three winters have been frigid. This one by far the coldest. Summer has been a joke. The last time we had a proper Spring season was in the early 1990s. I need to move someplace that is warm .......

jettawreck · Jan 22, 2014

1998redwagon said:
iirc jettawreck lives near grand rapids and drives an older tdi version that started with better mileage (pump duse?) i think gets fuel from the sa up on the hill in town. sa always advertises on the marquee when they start selling winterized fuel. i get mine from m&h simply because they have diesel nozzles that fit my passat. speaking with the m&h folks they blend 80/20 plus an additive to get to -40f (or c really). good thing too cuz during the last spell we got down to -36f at home. it started but it wasnt real happy about it.

Hey there!
Nice to hear from you.
Have you had enough of this cold yet? Guess not, because the next couple weeks look like we will see plenty of it still.
You got me beat. Coldest I have had is -33F. Warba country is always cold.

eb2143 · Jan 22, 2014

thebigarniedog said:
So much for global warming. The last three winters have been frigid. .......

Such much for the difference between weather and climate. Earth is a lot bigger than central Ohio.
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/2013/13

2.2TDI · Jan 22, 2014

Oilerlord said:
I logged my worst tank with the JSW - 29.8 MPG. I can't speak to the older TDI's but my FE has suffered over the winter. We're now having some mild weather; looks like the next tank will be back around 40 MPG.

29.8MPG? Jezz, I didn't think the newer ones could get that low, how long is your commute? I guess that 34-38 doesn't seem unreasonable during short commutes for my ALH then.

I also wanted to ask, my car has an ECU EGR delete done, but I have yet to install a straight pipe and remove the actual EGR, so does the ECU modification actually effect warm up temps, since the EGR is still there?

jettawreck · Jan 22, 2014

I don't think enough to matter. I did the VCDS EGR turn off on the '01 mentioned/referred to above and have not on my '03. I can't really tell a difference in warm up time between them in normal daily use.

Cogen Man · Jan 22, 2014

kjclow said:
Office of Frozen Canadians?

Even down here in NC, I saw a 5-10 mpg drop with the single digit temps.

Oilerlord said:
Nope. OFC is group of guys that stand outside naked in -25 temps and scream "Oh, F*** it's Cold!

TDIGAZ said:
Office of Frozen Canadians? .... nice one "kjclow"

My turn... "Overly Frigid Commuters? "

Drive On!

You're all close. Old Farts Club.

To the OP. Today I was averaging about 6L/100km. About the same as you but on a 2011 Golf. An around 110kph.

2.2TDI · Jan 22, 2014

I'm guessing that's good for a DSG CR?

kjclow · Jan 23, 2014

I've got to fill up over the weekend and will see about 70 miles less on this tank due to the colder weather. Works out to about a 5 mpg drop.

PacketHauler · Jan 23, 2014

jettawreck said:
I buy most of my fuel where it's cheapest. And since I commute for work from Grand Rapids to Hibbing, fuel has generally been cheaper in Hibbing. Either at a local corner Spur station or Murphy/WalMart, sometimes Edwards Oil. It doesn't matter, most of it all comes from the same distribution guys up here. If I buy fuel in Rapids it's at Holiday or Davis Oil on the west end of town, but seldom. Only use some PS additive when it's really cold mostly as peace of mind. I truly seem to get better numbers w/o using any additive(s) in warm weather and have many tanks logged to make that claim, but whatever works, right?

Side note: gas is currently 3.299/gal at home and 40 miles away at work it's 3.049/gal. This has been typical spread for some time now. Diesel doesn't vary near as much, but last weekend on the way up to I Falls diesel was 4.599/ gal most everywhere northwest of Deer River. Wow, the loggers and truckers up that way are getting hosed! Diesel was 3.759 at Murphy when I filled Monday. 690.5 miles/14.117 gal to the rim=48.91 mpg for the tank.

Car doesn't sit out much except at work and if it's below -0F I either start it a couple times during the day or if possible I get it inside the cold warehouse or plug in the FrostHeater for a couple hours before quitting time if there is parking available. Car overnights in the unheated garage at home which helps a lot. Even at -30F, the garage never got less than 15*.
Keeping the speeds down, advanced injection timing with the bigger nozzles and opportune driving make for the only known mpg enhancements. And yes, the older VE type ALH engined cars do better mileage than the newer ones.

It never got above -0F today and the wind was howling (but nothing like out in the plains). Forecast for -25 tonite, again.

Unfortunately here in the cities, everyone's diesel price is within $.03 of each other. I've been filling at Kwik Trip the last few times and the car doesn't seem to mind it, and my mileage has been thankfully consistent.

-15 is what the car thermometer said on the way to work this morning. We'll see how she starts at the end of the work day, I left it out where the sun hits it in the afternoon.

I'm embarrassed to say that we have become pansies down here, and have to close school when it gets too cold?

PacketHauler · Jan 23, 2014

2.2TDI said:
29.8MPG? Jezz, I didn't think the newer ones could get that low, how long is your commute? I guess that 34-38 doesn't seem unreasonable during short commutes for my ALH then.

I also wanted to ask, my car has an ECU EGR delete done, but I have yet to install a straight pipe and remove the actual EGR, so does the ECU modification actually effect warm up temps, since the EGR is still there?

My worst tank was a couple of fills ago, 31 MPG. I recall I had a different brand of diesel in there, but there was bitter cold temps, and lots of stop and go driving on the freeway.

My computer read 33 MPG this morning on my 30 mile trip. I was cruising at 50+ MPH 85% of the drive. It was -15F on the car thermometer with some wind added in too. Yesterday when it was 5F out with the same trip it read 37MPG. Go figure.

jettawreck · Jan 23, 2014

PacketHauler said:
Unfortunately here in the cities, everyone's diesel price is within $.03 of each other. I've been filling at Kwik Trip the last few times and the car doesn't seem to mind it, and my mileage has been thankfully consistent.

-15 is what the car thermometer said on the way to work this morning. We'll see how she starts at the end of the work day, I left it out where the sun hits it in the afternoon.

I'm embarrassed to say that we have become pansies down here, and have to close school when it gets too cold?

I had "only" -24F when I left home this morning, but it usually is a bit colder on the work end of the commute. Intake temps were -15+/- a couple degrees depending on where I was, load, etc. Only got the coolant temp up to 174F for the trip which is less than usual even for the cold temps, but my speed was lower than normal. I'll plug it in a couple hours before heading home at days end. Runs good, drone noise is more when its below -20*F for some reason.
Scan Gauge read 47.1 for the commute this morning. It's been very close to actual at tank fillings. Getting tired of the cold spell. It's been almost 2 months now.
Yeah, most schools are delayed 2 hours, some are closed. Not sure what good that does. It certainly doesn't warm up any in 2 hours, often gets colder just post sunrise. I'm sure it messes up a lot of working parents schedules.

Oilerlord · Jan 23, 2014

2.2TDI said:
29.8MPG? Jezz, I didn't think the newer ones could get that low, how long is your commute? I guess that 34-38 doesn't seem unreasonable during short commutes for my ALH then.

I also wanted to ask, my car has an ECU EGR delete done, but I have yet to install a straight pipe and remove the actual EGR, so does the ECU modification actually effect warm up temps, since the EGR is still there?

Along with the extreme cold, 29 MPG tank happened due to stop & go traffic. Big snow storms ground the city streets and commuter freeways to a halt. Still, I'm not complaining except for the freaking price of diesel these days - $1.32 / liter ($4.98 per US gallon).

Sorry, can't answer the question if the engine warms up quicker after the tune. I haven't noticed a difference but I did the tune in the middle of summer, and this is my first winter with the JSW.

thebigarniedog · Jan 23, 2014

eb2143 said:
Such much for the difference between weather and climate. Earth is a lot bigger than central Ohio.
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/2013/13

Your link is not a valid source. Your distinction no longer has a difference.

Cogen Man · Jan 23, 2014

2.2TDI said:
I'm guessing that's good for a DSG CR?

I'm thinking it's good for these ambient temps.

Extreme cold and your fuel economy

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Well-known member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Master of the Obvious

Top Post Dawg

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Master of the Obvious

Veteran Member