Oil Analysis Results: OR :why a 0W-30 is okay to use

Okay folks, got my OAInc results back today from the last oil change.

At 10k miles everything is perfect. Actually makeing me thing "maybe I should go to 20k miles with this oil . . ."

Specifics:
oil: Petro Canada Duron XL 0W-30 Group III/PAO based oil.

Interval: 10k miles 1700 were done all at once at higher than normal sustained speeds with higher than normal loads (more oil stress than usual)

Results: No corrective action is required
oil is suitable for continued use

WELL here are the numbers (just this set if desired I will put everything together)

Glycol: NEGATIVE
% Water: <0.05
% Fuel: <1.0
Viscosity @ 100C: 10.5
Soot: 1.2
%OXD: 7.8 (YEAH BABY YEAH)
%NOX: 10.0 (Oh yeah)
TBN: 8.7 (9.0 new!!!!!)
(Below listed in PPM)
FE: 47
Cr: 2
Pb: 3
Cu: 4
Sn: 1
Al: 11
Ni: 2
Ag: 0
Mn: 1
Si: 5
B: 23
Na: 0
Mg: 51
Ca: 2513
Ba: 0
P: 1222
Zn: 1363
Mo: 0
Ti: 0
V: 0
Cd: 0


DAMN if this oil aint the BOMB - I think the steady diet of Amoco Premium fuel makes a huge difference!

CAN I JUST SHOUT OUT "TOLD YA SO THIS OIL IS DA BOMB!!!!!!"

I am only concerned what Skypup's results will be like - they might just be better (I hope they are for the difference in price there is with the oil). But hell this stuff just ROCKS!

Damn I am late - I need to get home to my real 4 month old baby - kids are much more fun than oil analysis (well okay when they are cranky and sick OA might win out )

Geoff:

This PC 0W-30 CH-4 stuff must have a pretty good additive package in it.

Your amount of wear metals (iron, aluminum, tin, chromium, manganese, and etc...) is lower than normal, while the oil cleaning or wear additive detergents (calcium, phosphorus, and zinc) are holding up very well. Boron (B), as a contaminant, is also low.

Looks like you don't have to use an ultra thick oil made by Grandma Molassis to provide adequate protection to the TDI engine afterall.

No wonder, the trend in the lubricant world is heading towards thinner, more efficient oils, which protect just as well or better than the thicker oils of yesteryear.

Great work! ...And thanks for being a PC Pioneer.

GeWilli:

Do you have a MSDS on Petro-Canada's Duron XL 0W-30 Group III/PAO based oil?

Geoff,

The most impressive thing about the PC oil is the TBN retention. This is more important than having a high TBN that degrades after a few thousand miles. I have consistently said that 0w-30 and 5w-30, CH-4 rated synthetics are just fine for the TDI, and this only confirms that assessment.

For the money, this oil is an excellent value and should be considered by all TDI owners in the northern US and Canada ....

Steve,

boron is commonly used as part of the additive package in HD diesel oils ...I doubt it's a contaminent in this case.

TooSlick

Excellent news, this tends to confirm my misgivings about lower weight oils in the TDI for year around use, I like it now though.

BTW, I am just about at the 10,000 mile mark in both TDIs, one with OEM Castrol 5W-40 and the other with Amsoil 5W-30, so will send in samples to Oil Analysers soon.

The OEM Castrol TDI engine sounds a little rougher idling than the Amsoil one, this has just become apparent in the last 2,500 miles. The Amsoil TDI is still so quiet it is unnoticable that it is a diesel, while the Castrol TDI has the distinctive diesel clanking to it, much more noticeable at idle. Both engines are identically modified and run great. I'll post results here before Thanksgiving for sure.

SkyPup:

I've heard these same points made by several Forum members who have stopped by my home to pickup a case of Series 3000. In fact, I've never heard anyone mention that their engine didn't run smoother after switching to another oil, other than Syntec.

FYI - According to Castrol's 5W-40 spec sheet, their Group III dino oil (with no PAO) is about twice as thick at 40*C. as Series 3000 and about 25% thicker than the viscosity of the other popular 5W-40 diesel oils.

Example - Castrol 5W-40 = 120 centistrokes versus Series 3000 @ 61 centistrokes and other 5W-40 oils = 95 +/-.

Here's thread containing info on how to request products and services from Petro-Canada: http://forums.tdiclub.com/NonCGI/Forum5/HTML/001469.html

Just raising this thread out of semi-retirement because the Petro-Canada 0W-30 CH-4 rated diesel oil with PAO is an outstanding value at only $12.00 per gallon.

Here's some info for you to use in purchasing a case for winter use:

Brief company overview - http://www.htlubricants.com/eng/html/intro/index.html

Canada - West: (800) 661-1199
Canada - East (English): (800) 268-5850
Canada - East (French): (800) 576-1686
United States: (888) 284-4572
Europe Phone: (31) 41-32-51-258
Other Areas: (905) 403-6781
Technical Inquiries - Fax: (905) 403-6875
E-mail: lubecsr@petro-canada.ca
Internet Website - www.htlubricants.com

I was wondering if you still changed the oil filter at the same intervals or not.

Yes I still kept the same intervals. I could have easily kept going with the same oil.

However as the car is only half way through the warranty period, I am going to follow the factory reccomended service intervals for everything until I get out of the 100,000 mile powertrain warranty.

At 100,000 I will probably start going to a 20,000 mile change with a filter change at 10k. Possibly installing a bypass filter and switching to the Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30, but most likely continueing to use the Petro-canada stuff.

The analysis was for my peace of mind, cause I am curious, and to have evidence that this oil was doing at least as good of a job at protecting the engine as the Castrol stuff was.

Intangible benefits that this oil has over the castrol syntec is smoother starting, quieter idle, faster starting when it is really cold, improved fuel economy (only a few mpgs but still a significant amount), and peace of mind that there is an additive package that meets the CH-4 rating and the Mack EO-M+ and Cummings CES 20076 ratings (only 0W-30 to do so).

It also gives me a sheet with the analysis that I can carry around and show people esp sitting in the waiting room at the dealer waiting for warranty service!

This PC stuff looks excellent-Geoff-I have a couple of questions: Wouldn't this oil (theoretically) protect the turbo even better than either the 5w40 Delvac or the 5w30 Amsoil because of its 0w30 weight??? Also (theoretically) wouldn't it also give better mpg than the Amsoil/Delvac??? Or would the differences be so slight as to not be noticeable (since all three are CH-4, synthetics)??? Is the PC stuff safe to run in hot July/August conditions (say in the northern half of the US)???

Yes safe for Northern US even in supr hot temps (it is a 30 weight after all with a large % of PAO)

Wouldn't this oil (theoretically) protect the turbo even better than either the 5w40 Delvac or the 5w30 Amsoil because of its 0w30 weight???

--Yes quite so, the theoretical fact that the Garrett engineers say that a 0W-30 protects the turbo bearings the best has been brought up in the forum by Skypup.

Also (theoretically) wouldn't it also give better mpg than the Amsoil/Delvac???
--Yes and no - better mileage than a 5W-40, about the same with a 5W-30 (synthetic)


If you want to order your own case, call Coyne Oil company and I can help deliver it to you. I don't know if you need a two case minimum - but you might be able to find someone else to split the case with.

GeWilli
Shoot with those types of numbers with what you are using. Just putting on the by-pass and sticking with PC sounds like a winner to me.



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Lube-Direct

New Lube Forums

I used to think that $3.35 per quart for one of AMSOIL's synthetic diesel oils was the best value for the dollar, but have now switched to recommending PC at about $3.00 per quart.

PC's 0W-30 is fairly close to many 5W-30 synthetic oils in viscosity and (off the top of my head) about 2% thinner than Series 3000's new formulation. I would expect any synthetic oil with a viscosity between 53 and 61 at 40*C. to get about 4 or 5% better MPG than Delo 400, Delvac 1, and all 15W-40 oils, whose numbers are in the mid 90's at the same temp.

I've experimented with most of these oils and can tell the difference a thinner oil makes in the acceleration and reving ability of the TDI engine.

You won't wake up the neighbors in the morning when you startup a cold engine, either!

This Petro-Canada stuff is the answer for teh TDI I think.

For those with a heavily modified TDI (Skypup- mickey -Gary et al) the Amsoil 3000 or the Delvac-1 would be the ONLY choice. But for the lightly mod'ed or the stock TDIs running anywhere in the country this is the stuff to use.

Check the oil source thread or drop me an email if you want some of this stuff (I do not sell any but would be willing to find you a phone number to call or a place to stop by and get some).

Geoff:

Nice summary concerning TDI life after Castrol Syntec!

I agree that for mostly stock TDI's (even with silver eye-brow fenders ), Petro-Canada's Duron XL and Chevron's Delo 400 at around $12.00 +/- per gallon / 4 liters is a prudent choice. These are highly refined Group III diesel oils with PAO in their basestocks.

For modified engines (with more mods than just silver eye-brow fenders ), upgrading to a Group IV / V synthetic basestock with PAO and Organic Esters will provide a larger margin of safety for the more-active turbo. Suggested oils in this category are Mobil Delvac 1 and AMSOIL Series 3000.

[This message has been edited by Turbo Steve (edited November 29, 2000).]

Where can I find spec sheets for the Petro-Canada Duron XL 0W-30 ?

I looked on their web site and found an excellent glossary and explanation of severe hydrocracking, but I need specs for comparison and also a source for purchase.

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2000 Excursion Limited born 11/99 4x4 Toreador Red ext./gray int. 7.3PSD, 3.73LS, Skidplates, Pwr/Htd TeleMirrors, 6CDchanger, HtdBuckets, LT265/75R16D AT, Ford Wraparound deflector, PSDV8 badging, RoofMarkerLights, Tekonsha Sentinel brake cntrlr

Here are the resultive rewards of a 1 1/2 minute search:



Canada - West: (800) 661-1199
Canada - East (English): (800) 268-5850
Canada - East (French): (800) 576-1686
United States: (888) 284-4572
Europe: (31) 41-32-51-258
Other Areas: (905) 403-6781
Technical Inquiries by Fax: (905) 403-6875
E-mail: lubecsr@petro-canada.ca
Internet Website: www.htlubricants.com

Send them an e-mail and request the MSDS as several Forum members like myself have.

Geoff:

Just curious as to how your TDI is starting in the cold temps you are facing with the Petro-Canada Duron XL 0W-30?

BTW - How cold is it in your neck of the woods?

-2 last night (F) started after a brief glow plug cycle - couple rough sputter then a smooth purr - takes a while to heat up the car.

The Volvo starts super easy too. with the PC stuff this winter.

For the benefit of a newer member who was aware of the cold-flow capabilities of a 0W-30 oil, but who tactfully questioned if it could take the heat in the summer.

TS,

I'd like to see some oil analysis results froms someone with a chipped TDI in a warm climate, running the PC 0w-30. I think this is the litmus test as to weither it's suitable for very high temp use (I fully expect it will be, BTW). GeWilli has a very clean running TDI that doesn't produce much soot, and he does mostly highway driving, which is optimal from the standpoint of oil degradation. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, just playing devils advocate here (since the ZMan isn't around anymore).

TooSlick

Tooslick

I agree, I don't think I can give a full reccomendation for the PC for say Skypup. I think it would do better than the Syntec but by how much?

A chipped southern car would need to use a full PAO ester blend 0W-30 like the series 2000 or Series 3000 5W-30.

Geoff,

I read in a recent issue of Harts Lubricants World that VW in Europe is using 0w-30 oils as the factory fill and recommending them to improve fuel efficiency in their latest engines. They are also recommending oils that have a relatively low HT/HS viscosity for the same reason. By contrast, MB and BMW are still recommending oils that have a HT/HS viscosity of at least 3.5 Cp @ 150C (302F). So there is not general agreement even in Europe as to the best approach, although the trend is to lower viscosity oils ....

If you have a 0w-30 that passes the Cummins CES 20076 and Mack EO-M+ tests, I think it will work fine in the TDI, no matter what the climate ....

TooSlick

Car is starting like a champ - not a single hesitation at all.

Even the Volvo is starting fine. This oil is amazing.

Last year it took longer to warm up the car and many more glow plug cycles to start it, and the Volvo would be extremely cantankerous - I should start chargin PC advertizing fees I like this stuff so much.

And FWIW I spent some time reading about the highly refined mineral oils in that new edition Synth lube book and man did it have some great info. Esp some that will convince people that you need Group II, III or better in your engine. And with cheap Group II, and III based oils availible, there is no excuse to keep using a group I based product.

Damn it is good to be back at work - now I have a few minutes to sit down and puruse the Forum - well after I get through the 300 emails that have piled up . . .

I kinda like this oil - I think it works very well.

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It is not enough to believe what you see. You must also understand what you see.

- Leonardo da Vinci