Stop fueling with Propel HPR Diesel

Hey, guys.

This is my first post on this forum and I bring some news. Don’t use Propel HPR Diesel! Don’t get me wrong this stuff is amazing I love the fact it’s renewable and the extra cetane gives the TDI more responsive power! But recently my high-pressure fuel pump failed.

Lets back up a bit. I was merging onto the freeway when my TDI Jetta lost power luckily no cars were on the freeway so I quickly pulled to the shoulder of the freeway called AAA to get my car towed to Volkswagen. Thinking I would quickly get my car fixed and hit the road once again. Volkswagen charged me $150 to diagnose the problem as an HPFP Failure (a $5,000 to $6,000 fix) and seems to be covered under warranty. But they needed to sample the fuel to make sure I didn’t put gas in the tank. A few days later they get the results back as a FAIL because I used Propel HPR Diesel and not regular diesel, therefore, its no longer covered under their warranty.

The lesson don't fuel with Propel HPR Diesel because Volkswagen doesn't recognize this fuel as #2 diesel even though Propel states its #2 diesel and safe to use in any diesel engine. Propel really needs to work with the Big Motor Companies to get their fuel covered under manufacturers warranties.

Not convincing to me, here's why.... VW has a long history of blaming your fuel for problems, yes even regular D2. And not covering repairs. Sounds more like a VW / dealer problem then your fuel. HPR has more lubricity then d2. What year is your Jetta? They also are well known for failing on D2. Also contact Propel for their guarantee to cover repairs if their fuel caused a problem.

HPR meets the ASTM D975 standard. This does not mean it is D2, it means that it is directly compatible. VW cannot deny your claim on this alone.

1 tank on 1 instance isn't a curve.

Read up on HPFP failures: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=286380. Please don't be ignorant and post like you're not.

Propel is claiming that their product meets ASTM D975, so if VW is claiming that the fuel in the tank does not meet ASTM D975, then it's time to contact Propel. (And, get a sample of the fuel yourself, to have independently tested.)

If Propel's fuel comes out as ASTM D975 compliant, it's time to sue Volkswagen. If it does not come out as ASTM D975 compliant, and Propel doesn't cover the repair costs, it's time to sue Propel.

Problem solved.

@ temporaptor I agree with you! I have a 2011 Jetta

@digital Corpus Propel has #2 on the pump

DontfulewithHPRbyPropel said:

@digital Corpus Propel has #2 on the pump

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No it doesn't

Digital Corpus said:

HPR meets the ASTM D975 standard. This does not mean it is D2, it means that it is directly compatible. VW cannot deny your claim on this alone.

1 tank on 1 instance isn't a curve.

Read up on HPFP failures: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=286380. Please don't be ignorant and post like you're not.

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^^^this.

How many hpfp's have failed running straight D2? And biodiesel in all its flavors? I don't have a hpfp but from what I've seen here, it's a design flaw, not widespread misfueling, causing the failures. Don't blame the fuel without concrete evidence (like an actual lab sample of your specific fuel).

And I might add, your username is over-the-top suspect...

DontfulewithHPRbyPropel said:

Hey, guys.

This is my first post on this forum and I bring some news. Don’t use Propel HPR Diesel! Don’t get me wrong this stuff is amazing I love the fact it’s renewable and the extra cetane gives the TDI more responsive power! But recently my high-pressure fuel pump failed.

Lets back up a bit. I was merging onto the freeway when my TDI Jetta lost power luckily no cars were on the freeway so I quickly pulled to the shoulder of the freeway called AAA to get my car towed to Volkswagen. Thinking I would quickly get my car fixed and hit the road once again. Volkswagen charged me $150 to diagnose the problem as an HPFP Failure (a $5,000 to $6,000 fix) and seems to be covered under warranty. But they needed to sample the fuel to make sure I didn’t put gas in the tank. A few days later they get the results back as a FAIL because I used Propel HPR Diesel and not regular diesel, therefore, its no longer covered under their warranty.

The lesson don't fuel with Propel HPR Diesel because Volkswagen doesn't recognize this fuel as #2 diesel even though Propel states its #2 diesel and safe to use in any diesel engine. Propel really needs to work with the Big Motor Companies to get their fuel covered under manufacturers warranties.

Click to expand...

Basically, I think this post is entirely fictional. Why don't you post some evidence that what you say is true, and prove me wrong?

My $.02

From what I have been seeing in CR systems that have failed:

- Evidence of corrosion
- actual rust
- evidence of free water (pitting, corrosion)

I'm starting to form an opinion that failures are related to water and fuel with water condensate.

On my 2013 I'm running Power Service White Bottle year around, my goal is to stop any suspended water from condensing and becoming free water which is fatal to these systems, 100% of the time.

I know the failed parts are going back to Bosch for inspection which are covered under warranty, and I know they are seeing the same things we are...

I don't have an opinion on any fuels out there, but as long as they meet ASTM D975/S15 you should be fine. But keep in mind that suspended water is a separate issues from the ASTM specification.

If it were up to me the TDI woul have a two stage filter system (coarse with water separator+ 2micron polishing element) the fuel with every pass thru the pump woul be routed for complete two stage filtration by the filters.

If you own a CR TDI, my advice Dose up 4-6oz per tank of Power Service White bottle additive to stop the formation of free water.

Don't bother asking about other additives, the answer is NO, I have only seen positive results from the PS White bottle additives for water.

Their silver bottle is good for blending to get higher Cetane, but does not contain the solublizer compounds.

If you look on Facebook the same guy has posted the same "don't buy HPR" message on the Propel HPR page. Again, with the same lack of detailed information.

HPR has to be treated as diesel #2 by vehicle manufacturers, according to CARB and California law.

So that means that either VW is in direct contravention of California law, or the original poster is either mistaken, or a deliberate liar.

So I say : either put up, or shut up. In what way exactly did VW say that your fuel did not meet their specifications?. The fuel has to not meet spec in some way - lubricity, cetane, water content, gasoline content. They can't just say that they don't like it. If $6,000 was at stake, I'd want it in writing.

I’m warning you people don’t fuel with HPR Diesel if your TDI is under any kind of warranty. If you have an older TDI go for it.

Yes, I know, you already said that. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to provide more info than that.

Just noticing this thread...

So, what are "normal" people seeing with HPR? (By "normal", I mean those who don't have DontFuelWihHPR in their nym.)

I've filled up the past two tanks of my '00 Jetta with this and have noticed nothing different than when I've used B20 or D2 at <Insert Major Fuel Chain Here>.

DontfulewithHPRbyPropel,
You are unwilling to post proof of your claim, and/or your repair order from the dealer. I don't believe a word you say and think that you're a fake. Challenge my claim and those from the rest of us by posting some paperwork the others have asked for. Of course, take your time to block/cover your personal information. I'm curious about substantiated claims, not wild proclamations based on one experience.

I've run HPR multiple times from different stations (including 3 different ones in the Sacramento area and 2 more in the Bay Area) in 3 different TDIs with 3 different engines. Haven't had 1 problem other than slightly lower fuel economy because of lower overall BTUs in the fuel. What it does do is help the car run 1. smoother in the higher revs and 2. with none or much reduced visible hazy emissions.

I'm part of a small TDI repair shop in the Bay Area and have had no customers come in complaining to us about adverse effects to their CR engines while using the stuff. We actually recommend HPR as an alternative to FAME biodiesel for CR owners. We do encourage them to use a lubricity additive like Power Service or Opti-Lube XPD. Some have disliked the slightly lower overall fuel economy and have gone back to D2. That's their choice.

I guess if you have an issue with HPR you could've made a reasonable username, and then come on to this website to have an honest and calm conversation. There are a number of us who would've been willing to have a reasonable chat with you, including me. Instead you use an interesting choice in username, and the VERY FIRST thread you start is this one. Classy.

Trolls gonna troll.

I've been running it for a year now without any problems. Well, one small problem: since I'm no longer making weekly trips down to Sacramento, I have to plan on going when I have sufficient fuel left, AND a reason for the trip. Oh, I do carry a 1 gallon container of DieselHPR in case I'm getting too low. I'm heading down tomorrow to meet my sister so we can do our late mother's income taxes, so I'll fill up at the W. Sacramento location.

Running HPR only now...

I have an '02 Jetta TDI@185K miles & Ford F250HD 7.3L@300K.

I've run HPR for 9 months in my Jetta with no additives & no issues.
I've also been running it in my '97 F250 Powerstroke for over a year.

I can't note a significant power or mileage difference.
Both my engines engines run fine on it.

I like that HPR is a renewable biofuel.
And, HPR is price competitive with local D2.

The main benefits of HPR is this:
It doesn't stink like diesel either before or after it is burned.

Fuel always gets spilled at fueling stations.
But, I don't smell diesel around the HPR pumps...

Also startup isn't a clean burn initially...
With D2 I have to pull my car to warm up out or the garage reeks.
With HPR... exhaust smell is there, but it's isn't gross like D2.

Perfectreign said:

Just noticing this thread...

So, what are "normal" people seeing with HPR? (By "normal", I mean those who don't have DontFuelWihHPR in their nym.)

I've filled up the past two tanks of my '00 Jetta with this and have noticed nothing different than when I've used B20 or D2 at <Insert Major Fuel Chain Here>.

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I see I never answered your question. Like Jay4Tek, I notice less "diesel odor" both from the fuel and the exhaust, along with less "smoke" (does burning RD result in smaller particulate matter?) I'll really see what happens during the "snap" test when I take it in for the smog test in a couple of months. Back in 2014 RD wasn't available so I just ran D2 and it passed.

Used it on my 09 JSW TDI when it became available a few years ago when it switched from the Bio diesel
Now it sits in my driveway waiting for the buy back.

Have the 328XD. It sat on the dealer lot about 6 months. Used the Propel exclusively and after the 3-4 tank bye goes the HPFP. Asked Propel to check their fuel and they claimed they did and stated no problem at their end.

I took them at their word.

Still use Propel unless out of state, Nevada/ Idaho.

No problems 25k miles later

Was the blown HPFP in the BMW same make as the one used in the VW?

BMW does use a Bosch CP4-series HPFP in their diesels. As we all are aware, that pump has been problematic in many applications, not just VW, although some are more troublesome than others.

I smell trolling.

FYI: How can their pump say "98% biomass-based diesel blend" and also say "contains no biodiesel" on it?

This red car contains no red paint? - That is equally an implausible statement. Biomass (whatever the original biological or living source material) makes bio-diesel.

This entire thread has the odor of much biomass... As in the biomass that you receive from the back end of a bull who has eaten recently. Don't step in the fresh biomass.

They're defining "biodiesel" as fatty acid methyl esters.

Their product ends up going through refining processes similar to those used for petroleum, as I understand, as opposed to transesterification using KOH and methanol.

Geordi said:

I smell trolling.

FYI: How can their pump say "98% biomass-based diesel blend" and also say "contains no biodiesel" on it?

This red car contains no red paint? - That is equally an implausible statement. Biomass (whatever the original biological or living source material) makes bio-diesel.

This entire thread has the odor of much biomass... As in the biomass that you receive from the back end of a bull who has eaten recently. Don't step in the fresh biomass.

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According to the U.S. Department of Energy:

Biodiesel (BD) is defined as diesel created using the FAME process.

Renewable Diesel (RD) is defined as diesel created using the hydrogenation process.

So it is NOT the TYPE base stock used, but HOW the base stock is made into "diesel".


The trolling was/is done by the OP of this thread and those like him.

MN '03 Jetta 5sp wagon renovation. [smogged clean on HPR]

I just completed my restore on an eBay purchased, 1-owner 200K mi. MN '03 Jetta GL 5 speed wagon.
Pix here https://goo.gl/photos/WL6LXk5mKpJfuWqH8
My first step was to replace most of the totally-rusted F&R suspension.
A complete full front strut package was included with the car.
Calipers/rotors, rear shocks & springs I bought from RockAuto.
An abundance of cheap & clean CA recycled parts kept my cost low.
A nearby specialty recycler delivered front hub assemblies & axles for $260.
Pick & Pull is a mile away... I scored a complete rear axle assembly for $142... and about 2 hrs of my time.
The engine was initially running a bit rough.... it sat for a couple of years.
I ran a direct a diesel purge and the engine smoothed out a lot.
...2 days later the large (non-viton) O-ring seal in the HPFP failed.
YouTube walked me through the seal replacement... not to difficult.
Had the fuel metering set it passed the CA smog on HPR with no issues.
Once I got to drive it around for a while... it became obvious the clutch was not functioning properly... Last pix shows the failure... Damn MN road salt!
One solid flywheel & sport clutch later... $1100...ouch!
All in my total costs added up to $7K
Not sensing any further issues...
I really like the rpm control with the 5-speed!
Looking forward to a HPR freeway mpg test with on cruise control.

You will have no issues with the HPR diesel. It is a great product. There is a fair size group of us in California who have been using it for several years. You will take a small hit on fuel economy, your engine will run with less smoke and less noise. The O.P. on this thread was just a Troll.

So to derail here, isn't the purpose of HPR to be cheaper than diesel and of course, better for the enviroment?

Digital Corpus said:

HPR meets the ASTM D975 standard. This does not mean it is D2, it means that it is directly compatible. VW cannot deny your claim on this alone.

1 tank on 1 instance isn't a curve.

Read up on HPFP failures: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=286380. Please don't be ignorant and post like you're not.

Click to expand...

Don't be a jerk and post like your not.

This person is learning the hard way about how VW treats ANY fuel use other than D2 or D2 with 5% or less.

Looking forward to Propel picking up the repair bill. They will point to the HPFP issues and VW will point to the fuel and the customer is screwed in the process....

Mark SF said:

Yes, I know, you already said that. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to provide more info than that.

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LOL! As a B100 user for years. We have learned that VW screws user of ANY alternative fuel.

This person is fully entitled to post a warning based on HIS experience. He does not need to prove to YOUR satisfaction, that he is facing this issue.

All of us have at one point been told by VW service that running Biodiesel is not covered. I have personally experienced that when getting service for a NON fuel related issue.

Stop attacking the guy... I say you need to PROVE your counter argument that he did not actually experience this!

Oh and Mark since you only joined in 2015, I question your credibility. Some of us have been here a long time and using B100 since 2000, so we know what we are talking about.