First gear grind: clutch or synchro?

9mmkungfu · Feb 11, 2012

Hi all,

New here and just recently picked up a 2000 TDI w/ 5-speed. It's got 205k on the original clutch.

If I depress the clutch, wait one second, and shift into first gear, it works fine.

If I depress the clutch and quickly shift into first gear, it grinds.

Is this a synchro going bad or a clutch issue or.. fluid?

Thanks in advance!

Yblocker · Feb 11, 2012

With the car warmed up, try the following drill while shifting in to reverse. Depress the clutch and gently (but immediately) engage reverse. You'll be able to feel the reverse idler gear spinning and grinding if the clutch is dragging. A little clunk under those conditions is kinda normal, but the "Grind a pound for me!" comment from your neighbor isn't.

The first gear synchro doesn't get a lot of wear. It's 2nd and 3rd that take the most abuse from powering through the gears

If you think the clutch is dragging, you might also detect a low to the floor engagement point at the pedal, possibly indicating air in the system in which case bleeding may help. It could be a failing slave cylinder, or worse case- a release lever that is starting to bend that will require trans removal to repair. I think you have the dual mass flywheel in that car, which is also prone to failure.

9mmkungfu · Feb 11, 2012

Thanks for the reply! I'll run that test later today.

I was already looking at 02M conversions

Ski in NC · Feb 11, 2012

If it does not grind by delaying shift into first after pushing the clutch, it does not sound like a clutch issue. Second that about seeing if reverse grinds, as it has no synchro. Push clutch, count to three, go in reverse. If no grind, clutch is ok.

Also try the same with clutch pedal 1/2" above the floor. Should still not grind.

Change your tranny oil. I used the dealer spec'd and supplied stuff (g60 IIRC) and my shifting went from ok but notchy to smooooth as butter.

9mmkungfu · Feb 12, 2012

Reverse seems to work ok. I forgot to try it with the clutch pedal above the floor.

Without having to wade through a search, is the factory gear oil the best stuff to use?

Yblocker · Feb 12, 2012

That's seems the consensus.

9mmkungfu · Feb 12, 2012

Alright. I'll test out the reverse engagement with the clutch pedal 1/2" from the floor later today. If it checks out okay, what do you all think the problem is going to be?

I can live with a one second delay shifting into first. But I would like to know what's causing it.

Yblocker · Feb 12, 2012

If reverse engages without grinding, then the clutch is releasing, the input shaft is coming to a stop, and first gear shouldn't grind either.

The hydraulic system is ideally supposed to be flushed every 2 years or so. If it were me, I would perform that bit of maintenance, which would bleed any air too. Do a search here to learn about it.

I'd also change out the trans oil with the G60 from VW, and I'd be inspecting the shift linkage.

tat2 · May 1, 2016

I will revive this thread instead of making new one.
So I been having all kinds of shifting problems. Hard shifting, grinding into first from dead stop. Randomly grinding into other gears when driving. As the car got hotter it got worst. It would also leerch forward with clutch pedal all the way down. I changed the trans fluid it made shifting a little better but everything was still there.
So I decided to try changing the slave cylinder ($100 from oreillys) it was fairly easy about an hour. Remove two bolts remove the line, bench bleed the new one, out the line and clip in install the new one. Hit it with a vacuum bleeder for three cycles and done.
While I was at it I sprayed the shifting linkage with some white lithium lube.
I just say it was worth the effort!!! Car shifts beautifully! It has brought the fun back. I would sometime dread the bad shifting days. Now it is like I got a new machine and I can finally enjoy all the performance mods!!!!

tat2 · May 1, 2016

I will revive this thread instead of making new one.
So I been having all kinds of shifting problems. Hard shifting, grinding into first from dead stop. Randomly grinding into other gears when driving. As the car got hotter it got worst. It would also leerch forward with clutch pedal all the way down. I changed the trans fluid it made shifting a little better but everything was still there.
So I decided to try changing the slave cylinder ($100 from oreillys) it was fairly easy about an hour. Remove two bolts remove the line, bench bleed the new one, out the line and clip in install the new one. Hit it with a vacuum bleeder for three cycles and done.
While I was at it I sprayed the shifting linkage with some white lithium lube.
I just say it was worth the effort!!! Car shifts beautifully! It has brought the fun back. I would sometime dread the bad shifting days. Now it is like I got a new machine and I can finally enjoy all the performance mods!!!!

blacksi · Dec 7, 2018

Man, Thank you so much...After my tranny went out at 450k miles I put a junk yard pull in with only 130K at that time I also used that slave since it was newer. It has had a slight grind for 40K miles and finally started to get worse. I was about to yank the tranny tonight but saw this and stuck my old slave back in and waaa laaaa no more ginding! I also used the 130k clutch and always thought I missed something and they weren't exactly the same...

tat2 said:
I will revive this thread instead of making new one.
So I been having all kinds of shifting problems. Hard shifting, grinding into first from dead stop. Randomly grinding into other gears when driving. As the car got hotter it got worst. It would also leerch forward with clutch pedal all the way down. I changed the trans fluid it made shifting a little better but everything was still there.
So I decided to try changing the slave cylinder ($100 from oreillys) it was fairly easy about an hour. Remove two bolts remove the line, bench bleed the new one, out the line and clip in install the new one. Hit it with a vacuum bleeder for three cycles and done.
While I was at it I sprayed the shifting linkage with some white lithium lube.
I just say it was worth the effort!!! Car shifts beautifully! It has brought the fun back. I would sometime dread the bad shifting days. Now it is like I got a new machine and I can finally enjoy all the performance mods!!!!

First gear grind: clutch or synchro?

9mmkungfu

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Ski in NC

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