No "chooo" sound from turbo, ALH engine

DivineChaos

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I don't have that sound but if could be my turbo

Swapped turbo to the S7 Borg Warner one on KermaTDI. Straight pipped it and do not pressure relief choo sound.

My theory is that the vanes open quicker or have a different shape that do not make that noise on deceleration.
What specific sound? These cars do not have a bov, so there would never be the relief sound. Only surge and chop.
 

KrashDH

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Hopefully no one is referring to the sounds they are hearing as "turbo bark". If so, that's not a sound you want and is not a good sound at all. It's extremely hard on turbos...
 

DivineChaos

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Hopefully no one is referring to the sounds they are hearing as "turbo bark". If so, that's not a sound you want and is not a good sound at all. It's extremely hard on turbos...
Idk. I get minor compressor surge. But I'm not stock
 

KrashDH

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Idk. I get minor compressor surge. But I'm not stock
Stock or not if it's turbo bark, that is not good. Google "turbo bark" it will help you understand why it's really hard on the turbo shaft and can cause it to twist and potentially break. I am not stock either and my I have no odd surges or sounds.
 

Diesel Fumes

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What specific sound? These cars do not have a bov, so there would never be the relief sound. Only surge and chop.
If I boost hard and then lift off the throttle, I get a "whoosh" sort of sound. Is that what the choo choo sound is supposed to be? Or also I get sounds from revving and hard throttle. See link for a video of what my car sounds like.


I think it's all silly though. If your car works and boosts good, I would leave it alone. I wouldn't have straight piped my car. I bought it that way.
 
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KrashDH

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If I bosot hard and then lift off the throttle, I get a "whoosh" sort of sound. Is that what the choo choo sound is supposed to be? Or also I get sounds from revving and hard throttle. See link for a video of what my car sounds like.


I think it's all silly though. If your car works and boosts good, I would leave it alone. I wouldn't have straight piped my car. I bought it that way.
That high pitched whistle is just a combination of the cartridge and the bearings in the turbo. Usually ball bearing turbos have more of the whistle.
The sound at 0:58...that's turbo bark. That's what you don't want.
 

Diesel Fumes

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That high pitched whistle is just a combination of the cartridge and the bearings in the turbo. Usually ball bearing turbos have more of the whistle.
The sound at 0:58...that's turbo bark. That's what you don't want.
Ah ok. Yea it's a sound that doesn't sound right but I hear it all the time on straight piped diesels. Why does mine make it yet a stock one doesn't? I don't rev the car other than in this video and I don't make a habit of accelerating and letting off, etc. Is it anything to be concerned about? It sounds mostly the same as all the other straight piped diesels I've owned
 

KrashDH

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Ah ok. Yea it's a sound that doesn't sound right but I hear it all the time on straight piped diesels. Why does mine make it yet a stock one doesn't? I don't rev the car other than in this video and I don't make a habit of accelerating and letting off, etc. Is it anything to be concerned about? It sounds mostly the same as all the other straight piped diesels I've owned
Straight piped diesel doesn't have anything to do with it. I have a 3rd Gen Cummins, my buddy also has a 3rd Gen, I know multiple straight piped trucks that are built and none of them have turbo bark. I also know lots of these TDI's that have aftermarket components and don't bark the turbo.

When you build boost like that and suddenly let off the throttle, the pressure spike in the intake manifold (if enough boost is built) has no where to go. So what happens? It basically goes back (reverses) through the system. This causes your turbo wheel to almost instantaneously stop and spin backwards. That barking you hear is that entire process of the turbo wheel transitioning. It can cause twisting in the turbo shaft and snap it. Turbos are pretty stout, so it's unlikely you'll snap a shaft, but it definitely causes premature wear on it.

Really the only thing you can do is limit the amount of restrictions that you have in the entire system (think piping, intake, etc). Or, depending on how good a tuner is, they can minimize it through boost/fuel maps so you don't get such high spikes.
 

Zak99b5

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2003 Jetta TDI
It is my understanding that since diesels have no throttle plate, that pressure DOES have somewhere to go—the cylinders, which at the moment you let off the go pedal are still moving just as fast. That’s why there’s no diverter or blow-off valve, as found in gassers.

Of course, I’ve been wrong before…
 

Diesel Fumes

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Straight piped diesel doesn't have anything to do with it. I have a 3rd Gen Cummins, my buddy also has a 3rd Gen, I know multiple straight piped trucks that are built and none of them have turbo bark. I also know lots of these TDI's that have aftermarket components and don't bark the turbo.

When you build boost like that and suddenly let off the throttle, the pressure spike in the intake manifold (if enough boost is built) has no where to go. So what happens? It basically goes back (reverses) through the system. This causes your turbo wheel to almost instantaneously stop and spin backwards. That barking you hear is that entire process of the turbo wheel transitioning. It can cause twisting in the turbo shaft and snap it. Turbos are pretty stout, so it's unlikely you'll snap a shaft, but it definitely causes premature wear on it.

Really the only thing you can do is limit the amount of restrictions that you have in the entire system (think piping, intake, etc). Or, depending on how good a tuner is, they can minimize it through boost/fuel maps so you don't get such high spikes.
Wouldnt this all happen on a stock set up as well? But the muffler and cat muffle the sound? Or is something worn that causes this? I know plenty of people who buy brand new diesel pickups and the first thing to do is remove the emissions systems and mufflers and they make this "barking" sound.
 

KrashDH

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Wouldnt this all happen on a stock set up as well? But the muffler and cat muffle the sound? Or is something worn that causes this? I know plenty of people who buy brand new diesel pickups and the first thing to do is remove the emissions systems and mufflers and they make this "barking" sound.
Removing emissions will usually make the "bark" go away, it opens up restrictions in the flow path. You won't hear it on a stock setup unless your tuner pushes your boost to the point it builds up and has no where to go except backwards. So for a stock setup, with a stock tune, no this should not happen. The muffler and cat will not cover up turbo barks like that. It comes down to the phenomenon that I described above.

Deleting (which is a no-no these days) is not done to make the turbo bark. That's like saying you're going to remove components to make your turbo have a shorter life. Removing emissions comes down to eliminating some of the problems they brought, especially early on. Recirculation and coking up intakes (just look at threads on here and clogged intakes), regens, etc. Deleting, in theory back in the day, was making the vehicle more reliable. That's not the case with today's emission components.

It's not something worn that causes this. It's just physics. You have too much boost, when you drop the skinny pedal, it has no where to go. It happens more so on modded vehicles that can run too much boost for the components that the person decides to pair with the turbo of their choice. Sure you could tune your stock car and make your little VNT15 bark all day, but you'll have bigger problems if you're spiking boost hard enough to make your OEM turbo bark like that.
 

Diesel Fumes

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Removing emissions will usually make the "bark" go away, it opens up restrictions in the flow path. You won't hear it on a stock setup unless your tuner pushes your boost to the point it builds up and has no where to go except backwards. So for a stock setup, with a stock tune, no this should not happen. The muffler and cat will not cover up turbo barks like that. It comes down to the phenomenon that I described above.

Deleting (which is a no-no these days) is not done to make the turbo bark. That's like saying you're going to remove components to make your turbo have a shorter life. Removing emissions comes down to eliminating some of the problems they brought, especially early on. Recirculation and coking up intakes (just look at threads on here and clogged intakes), regens, etc. Deleting, in theory back in the day, was making the vehicle more reliable. That's not the case with today's emission components.

It's not something worn that causes this. It's just physics. You have too much boost, when you drop the skinny pedal, it has no where to go. It happens more so on modded vehicles that can run too much boost for the components that the person decides to pair with the turbo of their choice. Sure you could tune your stock car and make your little VNT15 bark all day, but you'll have bigger problems if you're spiking boost hard enough to make your OEM turbo bark like that.
Ah ok. Weird... I'll have to read up a bit more on it. My car is all stock save for the straight pipe.

I've always been told I shouldn't rev a diesel up. And I don't. I'll just keep doing what I do. It's even difficult to get the turbo to go: "whooooosh". You need to actively try doing it, but if you're driving hard and shifting fast you don't hear it much. If your driving with a heavy foot and shifting slow, you hear it. But letting off the throttle gradually makes the sound not present.

It does sound cool but had no idea it was bad for the turbo.
 

Ez2typethis

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California
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2003 Jetta ALH
The sound from the video in post 1. About 20 seconds in. I've heard it on powerstrokes before too. Definitely not turbo bark. Or a BOV

What specific sound? These cars do not have a bov, so there would never be the relief sound. Only surge and chop.
 

DivineChaos

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mk6 jetta sportwagen tdi
If I boost hard and then lift off the throttle, I get a "whoosh" sort of sound. Is that what the choo choo sound is supposed to be? Or also I get sounds from revving and hard throttle. See link for a video of what my car sounds like.


I think it's all silly though. If your car works and boosts good, I would leave it alone. I wouldn't have straight piped my car. I bought it that way.
Prebably. Sounds like compressor surge to me. Just not enough moist to pulse. Maybe he has a different brand turbo.
 

MukGyver

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stick 3 or 4 Kazoos in the tail pipe reverse direction.. great "kchazooo" sound!! just make sure the kazoos are metal not plastic.
 

KrashDH

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Aren't Garrett's ball bearing? Sounds like surge to me.
Negative.
There are some "hybrid" VNT ball bearing turbos out there. But most all of the VNT turbos we are running are not. Don't think they (Garrett) have a small frame bb turbo?
Prebably. Sounds like compressor surge to me. Just not enough moist to pulse. Maybe he has a different brand turbo.
Compressor surge and turbo bark have basically the same effect on the turbo. There's still no place for boost to go except take the path of least resistance, which is backwards through it.
 

DivineChaos

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Negative.
There are some "hybrid" VNT ball bearing turbos out there. But most all of the VNT turbos we are running are not. Don't think they (Garrett) have a small frame bb turbo?

Compressor surge and turbo bark have basically the same effect on the turbo. There's still no place for boost to go except take the path of least resistance, which is backwards through it.
I don't have a stock size turbo. 2260v.
 

KrashDH

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I don't have a stock size turbo. 2260v.
It's still a small frame turbo right? VNT?
Then it's cartridge. There's numerous reasons not to run a ball bearing turbos on our diesels. They are much more useful in medium duty frames (Ford, Cummins, Chevy).

But prove me wrong I guess. I would suggest researching your turbo more. I have heard of VNT ball bearing turbos out there, but none from Garrett that fit this car.
 

ghohouston

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Fords use a ball bearing turbo. That whistle is from that type of turbo.
Ford didn't use a ball bearing turbo until the 6.7's came out in 2010 (2011 my trucks). 7.3's, 6.0's, and 6.4's all had journal bearing turbos from the factory. 6.0's had the most whistle of the International manufactured powerstrokes, 2003 6.0 trucks having the most whistle. Why? Because the turbo had a 10 blade turbine wheel, and this was a v.g.t.
 

ghohouston

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It's still a small frame turbo right? VNT?
Then it's cartridge. There's numerous reasons not to run a ball bearing turbos on our diesels. They are much more useful in medium duty frames (Ford, Cummins, Chevy).

But prove me wrong I guess. I would suggest researching your turbo more. I have heard of VNT ball bearing turbos out there, but none from Garrett that fit this car.
What do you find wrong with using a ball bearing turbo on a tdi?
 

KrashDH

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Comes down to friction at the higher RPMs these cars make with turbos. 150k+ RPMs these turbos can make are more suitable for a journal bearing. Less friction due to the oil journal bearings.

BB turbos are better suitable for larger turbos spinning slower.

I wouldn't run one on a TDI.
 

Rrusse11

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Lots of Garret turbos available with ball bearings. They are likely to spool quicker and sooner. From most of what I've
read though they are not as long lived as journal bearings. Gottuned.com build a lot of various size hybrids with and
without the BB option.
 

ghohouston

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Comes down to friction at the higher RPMs these cars make with turbos. 150k+ RPMs these turbos can make are more suitable for a journal bearing. Less friction due to the oil journal bearings.

BB turbos are better suitable for larger turbos spinning slower.

I wouldn't run one on a TDI.
You don't suppose medium series as well as class 8 truck sized engines spin quite a few turbo rpm's as well? I've seen tons of journal bearing turbo's fail from small 4 cylinder diesel engines to 15 liter cummins engines. All journal bearing. Now my only personal experience with a ball bearing turbo was with a Garrett 38r on my first 7.3 powerstroke I had. Truck had injectors over twice the size of stock, tuned, etc. Those injectors honestly had alot more fuel than that turbo could clean up in the hot tune, but holy crap it was quick spooling, and quick for a daily driver diesel pickup. I beat the absolute hell out of that turbo daily for a few years, and never had issues out of it. That was the most popular upgrade of the 7.3 crowd for a long time too, and you didn't hear of hardly any failures either, with quite a few other guys doing more with them than they were intended to handle. I really don't see why a properly sized ball bearing turbo wouldn't be reliable, especially if a person uses common sense and let's the engine idle a minute or so before shutting off after driving.
 

KrashDH

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You don't suppose medium series as well as class 8 truck sized engines spin quite a few turbo rpm's as well? I've seen tons of journal bearing turbo's fail from small 4 cylinder diesel engines to 15 liter cummins engines. All journal bearing. Now my only personal experience with a ball bearing turbo was with a Garrett 38r on my first 7.3 powerstroke I had. Truck had injectors over twice the size of stock, tuned, etc. Those injectors honestly had alot more fuel than that turbo could clean up in the hot tune, but holy crap it was quick spooling, and quick for a daily driver diesel pickup. I beat the absolute hell out of that turbo daily for a few years, and never had issues out of it. That was the most popular upgrade of the 7.3 crowd for a long time too, and you didn't hear of hardly any failures either, with quite a few other guys doing more with them than they were intended to handle. I really don't see why a properly sized ball bearing turbo wouldn't be reliable, especially if a person uses common sense and let's the engine idle a minute or so before shutting off after driving.
I'm not here to argue with you. They don't spin nearly the RPMs that these small class turbos do. Friction and wear are killers of those turbos. Would I put one in my 5.9? Sure

I've done my research and have made my own conclusions based on what information I've found. I would not run a BB turbo in these cars. By all means do it if it gives you fuzzies.

I agree, they spool fast and are great turbos for the right application.
 

jrythetdiguy

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2002 ALH
I don't have that sound but if could be my turbo

Swapped turbo to the S7 Borg Warner one on KermaTDI. Straight pipped it and do not pressure relief choo sound.

My theory is that the vanes open quicker or have a different shape that do not make that noise on deceleration.
i just upgraded to the s7 myself and did a bunch of other things and im still not getting the choo choo? i just replaced all my vacuum lines and n75 just waiting on my egr gauge so we’ll see if that changes anything
 

jrythetdiguy

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If I boost hard and then lift off the throttle, I get a "whoosh" sort of sound. Is that what the choo choo sound is supposed to be? Or also I get sounds from revving and hard throttle. See link for a video of what my car sounds like.


I think it's all silly though. If your car works and boosts good, I would leave it alone. I wouldn't have straight piped my car. I bought it that way.
yes that noise where you revved it
Prebably. Sounds like compressor surge to me. Just not enough moist to pulse. Maybe he has a different brand turbo.
yes that noise where you revved it at 49 seconds and after, mine does not make that noise
 

DivineChaos

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Also. The mk6 has a turbo muffler. It's on the outlet side of the intake. Gotta pay to play bud.
 
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