3 Dual Mass Flywheel failures

Mrkrinkle

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Location
Tacoma Washington
TDI
2010 JSW DSG
Greetings,

I have a 2010 DSG sportwagen with 140K miles on it.

I had the OEM flywheel fail, then the replacement failed 100 miles later, that one was replaced and failed 100 miles later.. The flywheels that were used are LUK brand. Called LUK and whomever I spoke to there told me that I have another issue that is causing them to fail so rapidly. I tend to agree with him as it makes the most sense. Within the last couple weeks it has been slowly getting worse and worse and the noises aren't contained to the flywheel. It is very easy to hear rattling in the top end of the motor. Please watch my YouTube videos to possibly help me rule things out.


http://youtu.be/t0UmhitaI68

http://youtu.be/X07lqQUFynE

Thank you in advance.
 
Last edited:

redbarron55

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Location
Navarre, FL.
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI Executive
Do you have a DSG tune for the added HP and Torque?
Anything over stage 1 from Malone (not your tune I know) requires a DSG recalibrations.
I have no idea if this applies and has anything to do with your problems.
 

MonsterTDI09

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Location
NoVa/NJ
TDI
2010 Jetta DSG/ up keep on 2009 Jetta DSG 2006 Jetta Pag 2 in North SEA Green
Sounds like a 6 speed to me in the video. Look into a single mass set up.
 

Mrkrinkle

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Location
Tacoma Washington
TDI
2010 JSW DSG
Sounds like a 6 speed to me in the video. Look into a single mass set up.
Aren't all DSG's 6 speeds? If someone makes a single mass I'd be all for that. However, I believe my issue is a little deeper than just needing a new flywheel.

Would driving with a failed DMF cause terrible damage? Warp the crank perhaps? What could be causing these flywheels to fail assuming they aren't defective?
 

skinnyb

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2009
Location
Western, NC
TDI
2013 JSW TDI
Ooh that sounds nasty. Mine has rattled a little since new and hasn't gotten any worse with age (2013 with 90K) so I have been driving on. Mine is Malone stage 2 with DSG tune and I run the crap out of it... Mine isn't nearly that loud, I would not drive if mine was that loud :(
 

Face76

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Location
Long Island
TDI
12 JSW TDI
How soon after APR's DSG tune did this occur? This may be something that you may want to mention to them.
 

dmarsingill

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2011
Location
Dacula, GA
TDI
2011 Sportwagen Turned in , 2000 Z3 Coupe, 2003 Ford Expedition
Have you thought about consulting Malone? They should know the symptoms of operating the DSG without a proper tune. Maybe there isn't anything wrong other than it needs a tune. Remember, VW disabled launch control on the TDi's with DSG for a reason. There are big differences in how diesel and gassers make power.

Donald
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
FYI DSG cant do SMF

What has the oil been looking like on your DSG service?

Might have more expensive issues inside the DSG.
 

Mrkrinkle

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Location
Tacoma Washington
TDI
2010 JSW DSG
FYI DSG cant do SMF

What has the oil been looking like on your DSG service?

Might have more expensive issues inside the DSG.
Did a flush right after I purchased the car. It looked just fine.

I'm pretty sure the trans is destroyed. It sometimes shifts very hard and will hesitate and shift very slow.

Did another flush when the first flywheel failed, around 30,000 miles after I bought the car and did the first flush. I am fairly certain the shop did the flush with the trans out of the car. The only way I have seen DSG fluid changed is with the car running. I don't know if there is a way to flush it on the bench. I could be wrong, though. I am also unsure if they even used the proper OEM fluid.
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Yet another example of why a DSG is such a ridiculous choice for a transmission. A really cool tranny when they work right, but really stupid expensive to fix when they don't.

No SMF available so you are stuck with the dismal DMF they come with.
 

gloaming

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2012
Location
Port Fishington, Philadelphia
TDI
2010 Golf 6MT CR170 (Sold); 2004 R32 (not a TDI)
The Malone tuned guys haven't had any problems with their DSG's with a proper tune. Maybe your harmonic balancer is bad and is causing excessive vibration to the flywheel
 

Mrkrinkle

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Location
Tacoma Washington
TDI
2010 JSW DSG
Update!

Flywheel came off the crank last night. There is a hole in the bell housing, with at least a crack to the case with fluid leaking. It was towed to a dealer late last night and I have asked them to take pictures of the carnage. They are currently pulling the trans right now.
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
Update!

Flywheel came off the crank last night. There is a hole in the bell housing, with at least a crack to the case with fluid leaking. It was towed to a dealer late last night and I have asked them to take pictures of the carnage. They are currently pulling the trans right now.
Sounds like someone didn't torque the bolts correctly...
 

Mrkrinkle

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Location
Tacoma Washington
TDI
2010 JSW DSG
Well, the shop that did the work claims they used new bolts, used locktight and used the proper torquing sequence..

I am not sure if the flange itself is still connected to the crank, with the mating surface in pieces in the bell housing, or if the entire flywheel came off clean. I will know later today.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
In for if/how the shop will help make things right
 

Mrkrinkle

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Location
Tacoma Washington
TDI
2010 JSW DSG
I'll keep this updated as things develop. Car is at the dealer now. The service advisor had to leave yesterday and was out today due to a 'family emergency' so no updates today.

The shop who originally did the work has said 'were behind you %100' and seems to be cooperating so far. They have asked me to advise VW to not throw anything away that comes off the car. Bolts, flywheel, nothing.
 

Mrkrinkle

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Location
Tacoma Washington
TDI
2010 JSW DSG
Contacted the shop who did the work to begin with and they're sending a tech out tomorrow to the dealership to get a look at it. I don't see what they're going to accomplish then, but they can certainly go look. They will not be touching the car again, though.

Dealer claims the crank runout is within spec, so the motor should be fine. I'm not too sure about that, though. Total bill out the door will be a little over $8000.
 

dmarsingill

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2011
Location
Dacula, GA
TDI
2011 Sportwagen Turned in , 2000 Z3 Coupe, 2003 Ford Expedition
Contacted the shop who did the work to begin with and they're sending a tech out tomorrow to the dealership to get a look at it. I don't see what they're going to accomplish then, but they can certainly go look. They will not be touching the car again, though.

Dealer claims the crank runout is within spec, so the motor should be fine. I'm not too sure about that, though. Total bill out the door will be a little over $8000.
That is more than a 2010 is worth(regardless of dieselgate), I would either walk away from the car, or find used stuff to put in it.(new DMF, of course)
I would definitely take the tune out or talk to Malone about tuning the DSG.
I saw a complete engine and DSG on Craigslist with 30,000 miles for $2700 the other day. It's gone now, but they are out there.

Donald
 

ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
That is more than a 2010 is worth(regardless of dieselgate), I would either walk away from the car, or find used stuff to put in it.(new DMF, of course)
I would definitely take the tune out or talk to Malone about tuning the DSG.
I saw a complete engine and DSG on Craigslist with 30,000 miles for $2700 the other day. It's gone now, but they are out there.
Donald
Judging from what the original shop said it sounds like they will likely be covering the expenses.
 

dmarsingill

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2011
Location
Dacula, GA
TDI
2011 Sportwagen Turned in , 2000 Z3 Coupe, 2003 Ford Expedition
Judging from what the original shop said it sounds like they will likely be covering the expenses.
Yeah, I missed #21. I would still detune it, or get with Malone on the DSG tune.

Donald
 

ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
Yeah, I missed #21. I would still detune it, or get with Malone on the DSG tune.

Donald
Or drop the APR tune entirely and go 100% Malone.

I'm wondering if the OP is getting the infamous dual mass flywheel shudder under acceleration and didn't realize it with the APR tune.
 

dmarsingill

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2011
Location
Dacula, GA
TDI
2011 Sportwagen Turned in , 2000 Z3 Coupe, 2003 Ford Expedition
Or drop the APR tune entirely and go 100% Malone.

I'm wondering if the OP is getting the infamous dual mass flywheel shudder under acceleration and didn't realize it with the APR tune.
I would be on the phone with Malone as soon as it comes out of the shop.

Donald
 

raider929

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Location
VA
TDI
2011 Golf TDI
Or drop the APR tune entirely and go 100% Malone.

I'm wondering if the OP is getting the infamous dual mass flywheel shudder under acceleration and didn't realize it with the APR tune.
I dunno, it's pretty hard to miss from my experience. I never had DMF shudder at stage 2 but the day I went 3.5 I had it happen on the way home from the shop. I can definitely feel the car shaking and if I'm watching the tach I can see it doesn't climb smoothly while it's happening. It was bad enough that I thought "that can't be good for the car, don't make it happen again" and I've been driving around the issue since.

That said I agree with the other posters about the DSG tune. It's worth it even at stock power levels, if you've got any kind of increased power it's definitely something you should do.
 
Top