High-mileage TDI -- a reasonable purchase?

Short summary: Is a 2.5 yrs old car with 2.0 TDI-PD (VW's "BMM") engine reasonable second-hand buy at 100,000 mi?

Hello guys,

The car in question is a second-hand Skoda Octavia Scout. The Scout, which has been on the market since 2007, uses VW's "BMM" engine -- the 140 PS two liter TDI-PD with 8 valves, which superseded the "AZV" and "BKD" TDI engines in the Octavia range. The typical Scout at 30,000 to 50,000 miles has always been above my budget, but for this one the asking price is $7000 lower. However, it also has 100,000 miles behind it, accumulated over two and a half years. So, no free lunch.

Many people are instantly put off by such high mileage. When I asked the same question on briskoda.net, quite a few people suggested to "stay away". Others, however, confirmed what I knew from my modest experience with engines: provided that the car has been well cared for, 100,000 miles should not be a deterrent.

Indeed, I've seen here on the forum quite a few people with 200,000+ miles on their cars and still running fine. What worries me, though, is that each new generation of engines seems to get more and more fragile (or less and less sturdy, if you prefer), which is not a surprise, considering the increased complexity and higher loads. While diesel engines had typically been well over-engineered in the past, I'm not sure if that's still that much true today.

To make things worse, the 2.0 TDI-PDs (at least the 140 PS ones) has so far proved to be not the most reliable in the VW's range, from all I've read. And the BMM, in particular, is still rather new, too. Finally, of course, it's not just the engine that is affected by the miles driven.

I realize that it's difficult to answer because there's so much difference between one car and another and even more so between two different owners and the way they've used their cars. So, I'm rather asking whether it's reasonable in general to buy a second-hand car (with a modern TDI) at that many miles, and expect it to run more or less smoothly -- obviously needing more attention and repairs compared to a new one, but certainly not spending more time in the garage than on the road.

I'll appreciate your comments and advice very much. Thanks!

Cheers,
Luchesar, a.k.a. Bilbo

P.S. It's probably helpful to know that the car has been driven in Germany, likely having spent most of its time on the German autobahns.

Evidence of maintenance history is important.

Many folks have purchased good used TDIs. Mine had almost 45k miles on it and at 264k miles later performs just fine.

Good lord! English is my first language, yet I'm not as eloquent as that!

I personally have found that high mileage in short time, particularly from one owner, private (not a taxi or livery service), drops the perceived value far more than any actual loss of residual use would be expected to.
In other words (I have to re-state my point because I'm not as eloquent), if a typical vehicle is expected to have a lifespan of 200,000 miles, accruing 100,000 of those miles in 2 years does not mean the car is half used up, yet the public tends to value the car as such leaving it priced for sale at far less than it's worth. My own 2005 Passat was purchased with 130,000+ miles, for a quite good price specifically because of the perception of high miles equaling reduced residual life remaining.
Similarly, a low mileage does not necessarily entitle that vehicle to a higher value. I have been working on a 1997 Passat (still a 3B in the US market) belonging to a forum member's parent. This car has a bit under 80,000 miles so it is considered to be low miles. Yet it's condition is such that I would not consider it.

It all comes down to maintenence

I bought a car for my daughter- It was 5 years old, and had 200,000 miles on it.
The reason I bought it was because the maintenence records were impecable.- the previous owner had the car serviced by a reputable shop, and all records from new were available.
I did a thurough check of the car - including an engine compression check and oil pressure check- and these checked out to within 5% of a brand new engine. How is it possible that an engine with 200,000 miles on it checks out to within acceptable specs of a brand new engine?
Because high miles over a short time are VERY easy miles on a car. the car is almost always running under ideal conditions, and therefore almost no wear and tear.
The WORST miles to put on a car are those short trips of less than 10 miles.
I would rather buy a (properly maintained)1 year old car with 100,000 miles, than a 10 year old car with 10,000 miles.
Again, the key is proper maintenence.

Lug_Nut said:

Good lord! English is my first language, yet I'm not as eloquent as that!

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Aw, very kind of you to say so, thanks! Well, I can't comment on the language, really, but eloquently or not, you did make one very fine point -- and a point that probably summarizes best what I had in the back of my mind, yet, obviously, was not able to tell in simple words.

Indeed, the economical part is strong here: there's some widespread perception amongst the general public of such high mileage cars as almost breaking apart on the road already, and that inevitably brings their price down. In the end, just as you explained it well, you have a car which, all things considered, is worth more than what's asked for it. Thanks, really, for pointing that out!

Tom W. said:

I bought a car for my daughter- It was 5 years old, and had 200,000 miles on it.
The reason I bought it was because the maintenence records were impecable.- the previous owner had the car serviced by a reputable shop, and all records from new were available.

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I'm really glad that you confirm all I've known about how a car is affected by age and mileage, and also what stands behind the different "pairs" of these. BTW, this is very like how the computer hard-disks wear. They could easily work for over a decade in servers that are rarely stopped, yet could fail in just a few years on a typical desktop that has constantly been shut down and restarted again. And here the conditions, too, play a critical role: at constant and optimal temperature the hard disk suffers only minimal wear, but high temperature, vibrations and other nasty stuff, including lack of maintenance (like not keeping clean around,) inevitably kills it.

Thanks again, guys, these have been two very nice points!

Most cars have a rated life of 150K miles at the max, TDIs claim 200k

Take the new price and if your not getting 1/2 of what a new car costs then you are not getting a deal.

brucebanes said:

Most cars have a rated life of 150K miles at the max, TDIs claim 200k

Take the new price and if your not getting 1/2 of what a new car costs then you are not getting a deal.

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I disagree. High milage in a short time period means the engine was started and ran for miles at a time before another cold start. Once an engine is up to operating temperature almost zero wear occurs. Cold starts are what kills engines.

Why do you think tractor-trailer engines last so long? A special kind of metal? special oil? No it's because they are run contantly at operating temperature racking up the miles in a short period of time.

What would a semi go for if it had 100K after a year? 10,20.40% off the new value? The engine is probably just fine but go by the blue book values if it's less your getting a good deal if not then you are paying too much.

brucebanes, the price is indeed almost half that of a new car. And it's also 30% cheaper than a car at half the mileage.

Go for it.. have it inspected before you buy it.. Sounds like a good deal then. Are you getting it below Kelly Blue Book?

brucebanes said:

Go for it.. have it inspected before you buy it.. Sounds like a good deal then. Are you getting it below Kelly Blue Book?

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I hope for a Decra seal even. Sadly, there's no KBB for Europe. The closest is probably Parkers.co.uk, but it's paid for non-typical mileages. However, the price seems reasonable by a bit of extrapolation on their free data. In any case, as far as the prices go in Germany, this one seems if not a bargain, then at least a fair one.

Not knowing much about those engines, I wonder if the timing belt is due, and if that particular engine is as picky about oil as the PDs over here are.

Worst case, you need to change timing belt, lifters and camshaft. In the U.S. on a PD engine that's probably about $1500, maybe a little more. Unless the car's been abused, I would expect another 100K at least after doing whatever maintenance is needed. If the correct oil has been used and/or the European cams are better more durable than the U.S. PDs, probably just the timing belt which should be under $1000.

Ya I didn't see that you were located in Bulgaria. Look at comparable and get it inspected if it passes and your paying less then comparable then your getting a good deal. Just got to be careful in that part of the world it's not stolen or a salvage job dragged across the Polish boarder and fixed up with stolen parts. If they catch you they confiscate the vehicle at the border.

halocline, I have to really check that. Typically, the timing belt should have been changed at 80,000 mi, but newer belts have service life of 100,000. The price could be easily higher here in Europe (like the same amount, but in euro), however there are cheaper options at independent garages, or even DIY, which I generally enjoy quite a lot (and often prefer, because the quality of service in my region tends to leave much to desire).

brucebanes, that particular car is located in SW Germany, close to the border with Switzerland, and I believe that should be an overall "safe" region. Plus (and that's really a big plus to me), the garage that sells the car is an entirely German small family business (don't want to offend anyone, but I'd be really more suspicious with non-native people there). BTW, it seems like the car has also been bought from and maintained in that garage through her life, so that's perhaps another plus.

bi1b0 said:

the garage that sells the car is an entirely German small family business

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Forgot to mention that they are also official Skoda dealer.

I lived in Germany for years I know how things work there. I used to watch junk cars towed across the German boarder to Poland and put back together and then brought back into the Germany and resold.

If you know the family and where it came from sounds like you got a good deal. The high mileage might mean they have to drive 50 miles before they get to work or the store. Go for it, it sounds good if that's what you want.
You just have to be careful in that part of the world because many think smoking is a God given right and they smoke a pack a day in their cars and it ruins the interior.

brucebanes said:

I lived in Germany for years I know how things work there. I used to watch junk cars towed across the German boarder to Poland and put back together and then brought back into the Germany and resold.

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Oh, I see. Indeed, that's the reason why I'd be reluctant to buy a car from the former Eastern Germany. Unfortunately, those practices have somewhat spread to the Western provinces, too. So, thanks for mentioning that, really.

If you know the family and where it came from sounds like you got a good deal. The high mileage might mean they have to drive 50 miles before they get to work or the store. Go for it, it sounds good if that's what you want.
You just have to be careful in that part of the world because many think smoking is a God given right and they smoke a pack a day in their cars and it ruins the interior.

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Ah, no, I don't personally know them, but I'm looking for all information I could find. And, yes, that was a VERY good point about smoking -- I've completely forgotten it. Thanks again!