Mini Bixenons in my New Beetle!

F8L · Aug 19, 2011

schwarze Käfer said:
What I'm shooting for is the ability to perform a rotational adjustment by simply loosening a couple of screws from the from front while the headlight housing is sitting in the car, before the final buttoning up.

At least on the bug, the headlight lens simply snaps in place!

I think you are on the right track. Being able to rotate them is very important. When my rotation was off, one headlight was casting all kinds of light way up onto the side of houses when rolling through a residential neighborhood. ugg

Ohh as far as your lenses snapping into place.....I'm very jealous!

Lex4TDI4Life said:
@F8L. I get squeamish when people mention JB weld in their retros. Do you really find it necessary? Wouldn't an adjustable set up like the one above work but nuts, bolts and washers and a little blue loctite?

@schwarze Käfer - Looks good. This has inspired me to make my own brackets for my next Golf retro (RX350 bi-xenons). I hope to get these done by the end of the month. I will definitely post picks.

I'm going to try and make some sort of bracket to get them to fit but I am very limited in space on the back side of the headlight assembly. Once I have the FX-Rs in hand I can determine how things will pan out. For now I am just guessing. Keep us updated on your RX350s. I can't wait to see how they turn out!

schwarze Käfer · Aug 19, 2011

F8L said:
I think you are on the right track. Being able to rotate them is very important. When my rotation was off, one headlight was casting all kinds of light way up onto the side of houses when rolling through a residential neighborhood. ugg

Ohh as far as your lenses snapping into place.....I'm very jealous!

With slots, mine is adjustable. I'm just changing the method of attachment so that the adjustment can be done from the front of the headlight with just a screwdriver.

I'm trying to get this to a point where just about anyone will be able to do this retrofit. (save for making the brackets)

Seriously, these snap on lenses make this job so much easier! I bet I've had my headlights totally disassembled a half dozen times in the last month!

Once I have this finalized, my next mod will be a bit more involved.
A homemade headlight range/leveling motor system for < $50.
I already have the hardware ...

hpc · Aug 20, 2011

I read and re-read this thread several times now. I am so wanting to do this
same mod; have looked at tmtuning.com's HID NB kit at $2.2K and kept looking
for something else in the 'I can afford this' range.

Are you planning on offering the adapter plates? How about posting a parts list
with sources - like the resistors, etc?

Excellent mod!

schwarze Käfer · Aug 21, 2011

hpc said:
I read and re-read this thread several times now. I am so wanting to do this
same mod; have looked at tmtuning.com's HID NB kit at $2.2K and kept looking
for something else in the 'I can afford this' range.

Are you planning on offering the adapter plates? How about posting a parts list
with sources - like the resistors, etc?

Excellent mod!

Thanks!

I've still got a little work left to "perfect" this mod, and then I plan on posting an extensive "how-to" with a parts list/sources. I'm in the middle of redesigning the mounting bracket and it's attachment to the original plastic reflector carrier. This will make the process of the retrofit and alignment much easier (think hours of time saved).

There's an incredible amount of thought involved in making a "one-off" retrofit into an easily reproducable retrofit. Trust me on this - I'm putting a ton of effort into this trying to find all the potential pitfalls - so you don't have to!
I'm a little hesitant to post this until I'm sure that it's right. I don't want a bunch of folks upset with me over something that I've overlooked.

This retrofit would lend itself to being offered as a "kit" with the mounting plates and parts, as it just screws together. A kit would save alot of time in cutting the mounting plates and chasing parts.

Once I'm sure of the design, maybe we can get a kit together.

I'm short on free time this week as my son starts college!

Bear with me, I'm putting all of my spare time into this!

schwarze Käfer · Aug 23, 2011

I'm waiting for a slew of different types of fasteners to arrive to test.
My retrofit is currently held together with conventional nuts, bolts and washers. While it's functional, it is ridiculously complicated to perform a rotational adjustment on the projector. Proper fasteners will allow for quick and easy adjustments to be made, as well as allowing for the headlight to easily be returned to stock (halogen) operation.

Since I'm waiting for parts to arrive and have a few minutes to kill, I'll let you in on my calculations for resistor values.

As the high beam circuit (relay) has to have a load on it in order to function properly, and the high beam solenoids on the projectors don't provide enough load, resistors are required. Although it's possible to modify the high beam relay itself, it would be much more work and potentially less reliable than simply putting a resistor in each headlight.

I've been testing varying resistor values in order to determine the minimal load required for reliable operation of the high beam circuit, while wasting as little current as possible.

I originally tried 75 ohm resistors that I had on hand, but they didn't provide enough load to function reliably. They worked when warmed up, but not cold. (As resistance increases with heat, lets me deduce that it was relatively close)

I installed some 8 ohm "bulb out" resistors, and they work perfectly. But, the (2) 8 ohm resistors draw approx. 3 amps of current.
I've ordered some 33 ohm and 20 ohm resistors to test, and I believe the 33 ohm resistors will offer adequate load while wasting as little current as possible.
(33 ohm resistors will save 2.27 amps vs. the 8 ohm resistors!)

Here's some approximate values to ponder:

A typical 35 watt digital HID system (L+R) = 7 amps (after startup)
Bi-xenon Solenoids + Resistors (L+R Side) = 1 amp (using 33 ohm resistors)
Bixenon High Beam function = 8 amps

Halogen low beams (L+R) = 9 amps
Halogen high beams (L+R) = 9 amps
OEM High Beam Function = 18 amps

You save about 2 amps with HID low beams and 10 amps with Bi-xenon high beams vs the OEM Halogen setup. Not to mention HID's have 2x-3x the light output.

Table showing Resistor & Current Load
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Halogen High Beams 110 watts 9 amps OEM high beams
(2) 8 ohm Resistors 36 watts 3 amps OK! 100% Reliable.
(2) 20 ohm Resistors 14.4 watts 1.2 amps testing pending
(2) 33 ohm Resistors 9 watts .73 amps testing pending
(2) 75 ohm Resistors 4 watts .32 amps (not reliable/not enough load)
* these are approx. values @ 12 volts

Is saving a couple of amps of current a big deal? Probably not, but I guess it's better than needlessly wasting it by converting it to excess heat in the headlight housing.
And, the 33ohm resistors are ~$3 bucks less than the 8ohm resistors.

Richard55 · Aug 23, 2011

sweet

F8L · Aug 24, 2011

You sure are doing your homework. I assume you have looked up JVX's mounting method on HidPlanet.com?

I can't wait to see your final results!

I bit the bullet today and purchased the FX-Rs. I shouldn't have spent the money but I'll be commuting in the dark for the rest of the year so it's money well spent for my blind arse. lol When I'm finished I'll post a picture to compare them to the D2S mini for you.

schwarze Käfer · Aug 24, 2011

F8L said:
You sure are doing your homework. I assume you have looked up JVX's mounting method on HidPlanet.com? <snip>

Yes sir! Do you mean JnC's mounting method?

So far as mounting & rotational adjustment, I think I've got it licked. I've got some semi-exotic fasteners coming that should solve all the problems, and allow me to keep this retrofit totally reversible to stock operation.

So far, this is all Lego and Erector Set style construction. With the brackets/mounting plates, it all just screws & snaps together - no cutting or gluing required! Should make for a really easy retrofit, no?

If these new fasteners pass muster, it should be good to go!

I'm curious about the FX-R's, but I think my next chunk of free time will be invested in a range/leveling motor mod for my bug lights. The ability to raise and lower the lights from inside the car while on the fly would be very nice...

And before someone chimes in... Yes, I'm aware that VW has range motors and a rheostat for this, but I'm thinking ~$50, not $150-$225!

Looking forward to seeing the results of your FX-R's, F8L!

F8L · Aug 24, 2011

schwarze Käfer said:
Yes sir! Do you mean JnC's mounting method?

So far as mounting & rotational adjustment, I think I've got it licked. I've got some semi-exotic fasteners coming that should solve all the problems, and allow me to keep this retrofit totally reversible to stock operation.

So far, this is all Lego and Erector Set style construction. With the brackets/mounting plates, it all just screws & snaps together - no cutting or gluing required! Should make for a really easy retrofit, no?

If these new fasteners pass muster, it should be good to go!

I'm curious about the FX-R's, but I think my next chunk of free time will be invested in a range/leveling motor mod for my bug lights. The ability to raise and lower the lights from inside the car while on the fly would be very nice...

Yes! You are right. I was just looking at JVX's photos and got confused.

No cutting or gluing will make the project more attractive to those who are new to retrofitting. Just write it up and put it into pdf format and you're set!

Nice work!

JettaSportTDi · Aug 25, 2011

well done guys...........I think the FX-R's will fit into both of your lights but it all a matter time how much time you have to fit them. The mini's are a great up grade to get you retrofit HID feet wet then you want more.

Great photo's too

schwarze Käfer · Aug 26, 2011

JettaSportTDi said:
well done guys...........I think the FX-R's will fit into both of your lights but it all a matter time how much time you have to fit them. The mini's are a great up grade to get you retrofit HID feet wet then you want more.

Great photo's too

Thanks Blair! Just got in from doing a couple of hundred miles tonight with the mini's.
Yeeeessss, they are a great upgrade!
Caught myself pulling ahead of traffic just so I could enjoy those glorious high beams. Incredible!

You say there's more? Ok, I'm biting... How much more you talking about?
Give me your professional opinion... FX-R's? or what's next? Hell, skip the rest, what's best?

Even though I have a hard time imagining something better, if there's a projector that's a major improvement...
I'll find a way to make them work!
And, if they're really that good, I'd be the first to tell everyone to skip the mini's and go with them, instead.

Time? I'm having way too much fun to worry about time.

James

JettaSportTDi · Aug 26, 2011

schwarze Käfer said:
Thanks Blair! Just got in from doing a couple of hundred miles tonight with the mini's.
Yeeeessss, they are a great upgrade!
Caught myself pulling ahead of traffic just so I could enjoy those glorious high beams. Incredible!

You say there's more? Ok, I'm biting... How much more you talking about?
Give me your professional opinion... FX-R's? or what's next? Hell, skip the rest, what's best?

Even though I have a hard time imagining something better, if there's a projector that's a major improvement...
I'll find a way to make them work!
And, if they're really that good, I'd be the first to tell everyone to skip the mini's and go with them, instead.

Time? I'm having way too much fun to worry about time.

James

Hey James,

The only way to get even better lighting is to run the FX-R's with a 50watt HID kit. the FX-R's are a little wider then the Mini h1 or D2S. But you can only run 35watt HID system in the Mini type projectors.

If you ran the FX-R's with 50watt HID's you would see at least 35% more in front of the car, and maybe 25-50ft further.

The new Gen 2 FX-R's are more compact, and have too different bolt mounting patterns from the old one. They also have a better reflector bowl and internal shield.

I will be installing the 50watt HID system into my FX-R's in the next few weeks. I'll post before and after shots.

schwarze Käfer · Aug 26, 2011

JettaSportTDi said:
Hey James,

The only way to get even better lighting is to run the FX-R's with a 50watt HID kit. the FX-R's are a little wider then the Mini h1 or D2S. But you can only run 35watt HID system in the Mini type projectors.

If you ran the FX-R's with 50watt HID's you would see at least 35% more in front of the car, and maybe 25-50ft further.

The new Gen 2 FX-R's are more compact, and have too different bolt mounting patterns from the old one. They also have a better reflector bowl and internal shield.

I will be installing the 50watt HID system into my FX-R's in the next few weeks. I'll post before and after shots.

I've read there were some cutoff bowing problems with the Gen II FX-R's. Has that been resolved?

Here ya on the 35 watt limit on the mini's. The mini's are darn good, but yeah, with that kind of an improvement, it'd be silly not to go for the FX-R's, especially since the cost is virtually the same.

I can't wait to see your & F8L's results!

Richard55 · Aug 29, 2011

Please advise asap about which setup turns out to be the best. 55 watts sure sounds great. I want to do this mod asap. Thanks for all the research guys.

Lex4TDI4Life · Aug 29, 2011

You may want to be careful about using a 55W setup. It does generate more heat and some housings have been known to show some melting. Moreover, standard bulbs will burn out more quickly.

schwarze Käfer · Aug 29, 2011

Lex4TDI4Life said:
You may want to be careful about using a 55W setup. It does generate more heat and some housings have been known to show some melting. Moreover, standard bulbs will burn out more quickly.

Yeah, I'm thinking of trying the FX-Rs and giving 50-55watts a whirl.
The minis are sure sweet, but they're gonna get me a speeding ticket.
I keep pulling ahead of traffic just so I can use those high beams!

I don't know if the FX-Rs will work, yet....

We'll see... if they don't work out in the bug, I'll park 'em in my F150!

schwarze Käfer · Aug 29, 2011

Richard55 said:
Please advise asap about which setup turns out to be the best. 55 watts sure sounds great. I want to do this mod asap. Thanks for all the research guys.

Will do Richard! The mini setup I have now isn't bad at all, but if you can wait a few weeks, I'll try out the FX-Rs & 50-55 watts.

Richard55 · Aug 29, 2011

Thanks bro.

hpc · Aug 30, 2011

schwarze Käfer said:
Will do Richard! The mini setup I have now isn't bad at all, but if you can wait a few weeks, I'll try out the FX-Rs & 50-55 watts.

Me too - would like to move to the FX-R's with 55 watters.

Superb work.

JettaSportTDi · Aug 30, 2011

Lex4TDI4Life said:
You may want to be careful about using a 55W setup. It does generate more heat and some housings have been known to show some melting. Moreover, standard bulbs will burn out more quickly.

I have run 55watt HID's in my FX-R retrofit's before so it's not a problem, as long as the projector doesn't touch any part of the plastic housing. The reflector bowls can handle the extra heat. I just sold my old setup with 35watt and kept my 55watt system because they are going into my new ones. I will post pictures before the weekend.

schwarze Käfer · Aug 30, 2011

JettaSportTDi said:
I have run 55watt HID's in my FX-R retrofit's before so it's not a problem, as long as the projector doesn't touch any part of the plastic housing. The reflector bowls can handle the extra heat. I just sold my old setup with 35watt and kept my 55watt system because they are going into my new ones. I will post pictures before the weekend.

I'm going to try the FX-Rs @ 55watts as it's worth a shot.
Been doing quite of bit of nightime highway driving with the minis.
They are awesome! If the FX-Rs will give an extra 25-30ft further reach on low beams with a bit more spread, that would be outrageous!
Honestly, the mini's high beams don't need much improvement as they easily light up an area larger than several football fields like daytime!
Don't have to worry about deer when using the high beams!
Just wish I could use them more!

schwarze Käfer · Aug 30, 2011

hpc said:
Me too - would like to move to the FX-R's with 55 watters.

Superb work.

So you want to hold off 'till we see how the FX-Rs workout? (I would)

hpc · Aug 30, 2011

schwarze Käfer said:
So you want to hold off 'till we see how the FX-Rs workout? (I would)

Most definitely - I wish to wait and see how your FX-R's pan out.
As they say, good things come to those who wait.

Just got the Bug back from Matt Whitbread...he is an awesome tuner.

I am so looking forward to getting some decent headlamps in the
Bug - I do lots! of Interstate driving at night and stock lighting
is so inadequate...unless you never drive about 30-40 MPH and
only look one car ahead.

Cheers!

schwarze Käfer · Aug 30, 2011

hpc said:
Most definitely - I wish to wait and see how your FX-R's pan out.
As they say, good things come to those who wait.

Just got the Bug back from Matt Whitbread...he is an awesome tuner.

I am so looking forward to getting some decent headlamps in the
Bug - I do lots! of Interstate driving at night and stock lighting
is so inadequate...unless you never drive about 30-40 MPH and
only look one car ahead.

Cheers!

Yeah, the stock headlights aren't much good. The minis are great - can't wait to try the FX-R @ 55watts.

JettaSportTDi · Aug 31, 2011

Just for reference here are the FX-R's with 35watt on my jetta. Lost a ballast last night so I have to get another 55watt on, so I switched to 35watt. Distance is about 60ft from curb. I will shoot the same location for the 55watt ballast next week.

Beam cut off (both headlights are on)

schwarze Käfer · Aug 31, 2011

Good pics, Blair. I can't wait to see your 55watt pics.

Richard55 · Aug 31, 2011

is there anyway someone can explain the difference in the systems. Is it just 35 vs 55 watts. What is the difference between the H1 and D2S bulbs ect.

schwarze Käfer · Aug 31, 2011

Ok Richard, this is a quicky, generalized explaination, hope it helps ...

H1 refers to the type of connection the bulb uses to connect to the projector/headlight.
An H1 HID bulb is what they call a "rebased" bulb. It was originally designed to fit into a halogen headlight housing/projector. If you see an H as in H1, H4, H11 etc... they are rebased HID bulbs. There are also "rebased" bulbs that use the conventional numbering system, such as 9006, 9007, etc...
I'm sure you've seen many fools out there running rebased HID bulbs in their stock halogen headlight housing, driving around blinding folks with all the glare.

Other than the Mini H1, true HID projectors use a bulb connector style such as D2S, D2R, D1S, etc...

Putting an HID rebased bulb into a halogen housing is generally a bad idea. A halogen housing is not designed for HID, the extra light output is usually just blinding other drivers.
With a true HID projector, the beam is properly contained and is low and wide.
On my bug, I put an HID H1 "kit" into the stock halogen projectors. While there was a little improvement over halogen for the low beams, it totally washed out the high beams.
Rendered the high beams virtually worthless, as the lows were so much brighter.

The Mini H1 Projector is a true HID projector, it's just designed to utilize the rebased H1 HID bulb. There is also a Mini D2S projector, but it's performance is not as good as the Mini H1 projector. Go figure...

Basically, as far as wattage is concerned, all factory HID systems are 35 watt. Also, virtually all HID bulbs are 35 watt. But, the bulbs can be overdriven to 50 watts, and beyond, and produce much more light doing so. The tradeoff for the extra light is shorter bulb life and more heat in the projector. Running 50-55watt ballasts is a generally accepted good tradeoff for bulb life and performance. However, some projectors, such as the Mini H1 and Mini D2S, can't handle the extra heat and the chrome plating on the projector bowl will burn or flake off from the heat.

That's the idea behind trying to retrofit the FX-R projector into the bug. No only does the FX-R have better optics and a better beam spread, but it also has a larger reflector bowl and is known to be able to handle the heat from running at 50-55 watts, without burning the plating off the bowls.

Don't get me wrong, the Mini H1 projector is very good. I LOVE them in my bug.
But, I'm going to try the FX-R as the better optics at even 35 watts should be worth the effort. And, at 50-55 watts, it should be phenomenal!

JettaSportTDi · Aug 31, 2011

schwarze Käfer said:
Ok Richard, this is a quicky, generalized explaination, hope it helps ...

H1 refers to the type of connection the bulb uses to connect to the projector/headlight.
An H1 HID bulb is what they call a "rebased" bulb. It was originally designed to fit into a halogen headlight housing/projector. If you see an H as in H1, H4, H11 etc... they are rebased HID bulbs. There are also "rebased" bulbs that use the conventional numbering system, such as 9006, 9007, etc...
I'm sure you've seen many fools out there running rebased HID bulbs in their stock halogen headlight housing, driving around blinding folks with all the glare.

Other than the Mini H1, true HID projectors use a bulb connector style such as D2S, D2R, D1S, etc...

Putting an HID rebased bulb into a halogen housing is generally a bad idea. A halogen housing is not designed for HID, the extra light output is usually just blinding other drivers.
With a true HID projector, the beam is properly contained and is low and wide.
On my bug, I put and HID H1 "kit" into the stock halogen projectors. While there was a little improvement over halogen for the low beams, it totally washed out the high beams.
Rendered the high beams virtually worthless, as the lows were so much brighter.

The Mini H1 Projector is a true HID projector, it's just designed to utilize the rebased H1 HID bulb. There is also a Mini D2S projector, but it's performance is not as good as the Mini H1 projector. Go figure...

Basically, as far as wattage is concerned, all factory HID systems are 35 watt. Also, virtually all HID bulbs are 35 watt. But, the bulbs can be overdriven to 50 watts, and beyond, and produce much more light doing so. The tradeoff for the extra light is shorter bulb life and more heat in the projector. Running 50-55watt ballasts is a generally accepted good tradeoff for bulb life and performance. However, some projectors, such as the Mini H1 and Mini D2S, can't handle the extra heat and the chrome plating on the projector bowl will burn or flake off from the heat.

That's the idea behind trying to retrofit the FX-R projector into the bug. No only does the FX-R have better optics and a better beam spread, but it also has a larger reflector bowl and is known to be able to handle the heat from running at 50-55 watts, without burning the plating off the bowls.

Don't get me wrong, the Mini H1 projector is very good. I LOVE them in my bug.
But, I'm going to try the FX-R as the better optics at even 35 watts should be worth the effort. And, at 50-55 watts, it should be phenomenal!

Well said,
I see you have been spending time on HID planet.

schwarze Käfer · Aug 31, 2011

JettaSportTDi said:
Well said,
I see you have been spending time on HID planet.

Yes, it's a good forum & source for information.

Mini Bixenons in my New Beetle!

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