Amsoil In this Thread only

Which AMSOIL?


  • Total voters
    339

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
:)
Thank you for the clarification. Evidently MBZ CDIs do not require 5W-40.
Thanks again.
:D
D
The CDI may require a certain spec and grade of oil, I can't say without seeing the owners manual. Most 229.51 oils are 5w30 though.
 

40X40

Experienced
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Location
Kansas City area, MO
TDI
2013 Passat SEL Premium
Do ANY other oil companies submit their oil for official approval by Volkswagon?

<SNIP>
Is this really a serious question??:eek:


Since there is a long list of oils with VW certification (posted on this forum on an irregular basis), it is safe to say that 'other' oil companies DO submit their products for 'official approval by Volkswagen'.

PS it is not spelled 'Volkswagon'.


Bill
 

scurvy

Good Ol' Boy
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
Chicago IL USA
TDI
2006 Golf
OK....Here's a classic example of an idiot.....He sends me this post PM thinking I'm some newb amsoil hater....Now I get why the rest of you might be hating amsoil people.....(I'm a retailer of the product and have worked on THOUSANDS of TDI's unlike junior here..)
Way to make a great impression, Lucas. :D

I have much respect for Jason or any of the other gurus who work on TDIs regularly - they see the good, the bad & the ugly of what works and what doesn't. I would wholeheartedly agree that running 'approved' lubricants for PDs - especially 5w30 oils - have not shown to help prolong cam/lifter life the way that 5w40 diesel-rated synthetic oils have, regardless of the manufacturer.
 

IFRCFI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Location
Winchester, VA
TDI
2013 Touareg TDI Lux
But with 3000 clients and all of them that oil service with me, 2500 or so at major services and 500-600 on a 10K basis all running amsoil I have seen very little issue. That good enough for me.
Most important post in this thread. Real life observations from someone who knows.

Some of these guys act like an Amsoil rep ran off with their wives.......?
 

cheezy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2002
Location
Madison
TDI
99 NB, 96 B4V
Some of these guys act like an Amsoil rep ran off with their wives.......?

"Scuse me mam, but your husband is dry. I've got some GL-5 Severe Gear Lube I need a used analysis done with. Care to join me for a fluids drop?" :eek:
 

nicklockard

Torque Dorque
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Location
Arizona
TDI
SOLD 2010 Touareg Tdi w/factory Tow PCKG
?? said:
Arguing on the internet is like running a race in the Special Olympics.......you always win
That about sums it up. Some pissing match posts deleted.
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
Mercedes & BMW are both formulating their latest (MB 229.51/BMW LL04), diesel oils around the generic, ACEA C3-08 Specification. This requires a high temp, high shear rate viscosity of at least 3.5 Centipoise @150 C - regardless of if the oil is a thirty weight or a forty weight.

The ACEA, C3-08 Spec has these chemical limits:

Ash < 0.8%
Phosphorus < 900 ppm
Sulfur < 0.3%

These are also the limits for the VW 502.00/505.01 oils, which are considered "Mid-SAPS" products. The VW 504.00/507.00 and Porsche "C30" specs take this even further:

Ash < 0.65%
Phosphorus < 700 ppm
Sulfur < 0.2%

These are classified as Low-SAPS products....

Note: All these European OEM Specs are for both gas & diesel engines. The very low ash is to ensure long term, DPF performance. The reduced levels of P and S are to optimize the life of oxygen sensors, EGR valves and the latest three way catalysts ("TWC"), used on gas engines - particularly the direct injection models that may consume a fair # of oil.



For completeness, we have API/CJ-4:

Ash < 1.0%
Phosphorus < 1200 ppm
Sulfur < 0.4%

(Since this spec was defined to include the use of Group I & II, petroleum base oils, they had to allow higher levels of sulfur, which is inherently part of the base oil. The ash & phosphorus reflect the additive chemistry, so these levels can be manipulated independently).

TS
 
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jcool

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2009
Location
Richlands NC
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI sedan 6spd manual, 2002 Jetta GLS TDI 5spd manual
For the amsoil guys here I have a question. I would like to know if the newer 5-30(amsoil) for the 09 tdi is good to run in my 02? I dont mind ordering two seperate cases of oil, but would be great if both could use the same. Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but hoped this was the best place to ask.
 

jasonTDI

TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Apr 26, 2001
Location
Oregon, WI
TDI
20' RAM 3500 CCLB dually HO/Aisan. 2019 Cherokee 2.0T
The DEO 5w40 would be a much better choice with the cam design in that older motor
 

Chrismak

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Location
Brewster, NY
TDI
2005 Pasatt TDI , 2008 Mercdes E-320 Bluetec, 1983 300D mercedes (Sold :-(
Hey guys,
I'm not anal about my oil as long as it met the spec.
Castrol
Fuchs
Mobil 1
Motul
Pentosynth
Total Quartz
Just replaced the cam in my PD pasatt. Never used Amsoil. All the above mentioned met the VW 505 spec.
What do you recommend as far as Amsoil to try and hold onto this cam for another 200K?

Thanks,
Chris
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
Hey guys,
I'm not anal about my oil as long as it met the spec.
Castrol
Fuchs
Mobil 1
Motul
Pentosynth
Total Quartz
Just replaced the cam in my PD pasatt. Never used Amsoil. All the above mentioned met the VW 505 spec.
What do you recommend as far as Amsoil to try and hold onto this cam for another 200K?
Thanks,
Chris
DEO (5w40)

DME (15w40)

AME (15w40)

AMO (10w40)
 

tditom

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Jackson, MI
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
Hey guys,
I'm not anal about my oil as long as it met the spec.
Castrol
Fuchs
Mobil 1
Motul
Pentosynth
Total Quartz
Just replaced the cam in my PD pasatt. Never used Amsoil. All the above mentioned met the VW 505 spec.
What do you recommend as far as Amsoil to try and hold onto this cam for another 200K?

Thanks,
Chris
Chris- Maybe that was a typo, but that car requires VW505.01, not 505.00
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
I'd run the Amsoil 10w-40, High Performance oil in the PD engine. It's even thicker than their 5w-40 in terms of HT/HS viscosity (4.3 Cp vs 4.0 Cp), it has high levels of ZDDP (1150 ppm of P, 1400 ppm of zinc); it performs even better in the Four Ball wear test (a wear scar of 0.40 mm @ 1800 rpms & 150C oil temp, vs 0.44 mm @ 1200 rpms & 75C oil temp for DEO/5w-40)

The 10w-40/AMO also has a higher TBN (12.0 vs 10.4), than the Amsoil 5w-40 and I've had excellent results with it in TDI's going back to 1997....

TS
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
JPG,

Their 5w-40 European Oil is the official recommendation for the PD engines, since it's using a VW 502.00/505.00/505.01, additive chemistry. However if your engine isn't under warranty, the oil analysis data we've seen for at least the past several years would indicate that the latest API spec, HD diesel oils work even better. These would be SAE 40wt synthetics that carry the CJ-4/SM specification. Amsoil makes this type of oil in either a 5w-40 or 15w-40 grade. For Northern climates, the 5w-40 is the preferred option; for mild to very hot climates, either is fine.

There are also CJ-4/SM rated synthetics available from all the major oil companies...

TS
 

SuburbanTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
Location
Midwest
TDI
Beetle TDI, and two Jetta TDI
JPG,
Their 5w-40 European Oil is the official recommendation for the PD engines,.... However if your engine isn't under warranty...

You can find an "Official" list here with official recommendations, and yes there are a number of European 5w-40 oil's:Technical Service Bulletin_1997-2010.pdf

Those are the "official" approved oils for use while under warranty. Hope the link helps.
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
You can find an "Official" list here with official recommendations, and yes there are a number of European 5w-40 oil's:Technical Service Bulletin_1997-2010.pdf
Those are the "official" approved oils for use while under warranty. Hope the link helps.
Unfortunately none of those satisfy the conditions for what Mr. JPG asked. See post 1399 and 1400.

"Their" means Amsoil, in this case.
 

spleecho

I don't kill trees Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
1999.5 Golf TDI
Few months ago I was researching some oil specs and found the data sheet for the 507 and I had the spreadsheet with all levels in it and now can't find it again, I found AMSOIL's oil had much lower levels of surfactants (detergent) then the VW's. I don't know if that changed and does anybody have this sheet?
 

jasonTDI

TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Apr 26, 2001
Location
Oregon, WI
TDI
20' RAM 3500 CCLB dually HO/Aisan. 2019 Cherokee 2.0T
You can find an "Official" list here with official recommendations, and yes there are a number of European 5w-40 oil's:Technical Service Bulletin_1997-2010.pdf

Those are the "official" approved oils for use while under warranty. Hope the link helps.

Yes, but that car is out of warranty.

I've had a lot less issue for a longer time with CI-4+ CJ oils than the grp III castrol crap that VW sells. We run DEO 5/40 Amsoil only for the past 2 years and the AFL 505.01 "recommended" prior to that. the "new 507" in the new 09-10 cars.
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
Since Amsoil just released their VW 504.00/507.00 formulation, I'm not sure how you compared it to anything? By "official", I meant simply the Amsoil 5w-40 European Oil is the product they warranty for VW/Audi engines calling for a 502.00/505.00/505.01 Spec lubricant.

Of course, we've seen PD camshafts & lifters wear out prematurely even with vehicles that are dealer serviced with oils from VW's "Approved List" of lubricants. So I think people need to assess this situation for themselves. On average, it's hard to see even a good PD engine lasting as long as earlier designs, due to the very high contact pressures at the cam lobe to lifter interface, as well as some suspect metallurgy (insufficient surface hardening), on some lots of these parts.

The VW 505.01 oils are just a bandaid for an overly stressed design; the API spec oils seem to be an even more effective bandaid. But a small percentage of PD valve trains will fail, regardless of what you do.

One thing that's often overlooked when it comes to the PD motors is the effect of soot levels on the rate of iron wear. Soot is always a "bad actor", when it comes to diesel engines. In the PD it's critical to keep the average soot concentration as low as possible. You can do this by installing a 2 um (micron), bypass filter, or simply by reducing your oil change intervals by a reasonable (25%-33%), amount. I'd particularly consider the shorter intervals if you're running a VW Spec (505.01 or 507.00) diesel oil. The bypass filter also increases the total oil capacity by ~ 1 quart, so on average your oil will run cooler and not thin out as much.

TS
 
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SuburbanTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
Location
Midwest
TDI
Beetle TDI, and two Jetta TDI
Sorry, I thought that when he was talking about the 'official oil ... to be used under warranty' that it would be helpful to actually have a link to the official oils.

I don't know if there is a more recent list.
 

roadking00

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Salisbury, NC
TDI
2005.5 Black Jetta (Auto DSG)Pushing 320K
I've switched to Amsoil 5W-40 in my VW Jetta 2005.5 PD about 30K miles ago when I hit 100K on the car, due to a recommendation of a friend that has been using it for years in his F250 diesel, when I originally switched over I was told by an Amsoil tech that my change intervals is fine to be double (20K) of the manufacturers recommendations, but to replace the MANN oil filter at the normal interval (10K)miles due to the fact EA filters were not available for my VW yet , or it can even be longer intervals if I had an oil filtration system installed and had oil analysis done through them?

Since then I have been reading alot on the forums, just changed my DMF for my auto DGS, and about to inspect my cam.I guess I've been reading a little bit too much lately since I am starting to second guess the tech on the change intervals?

Would it be beneficial to send a sample to amsoil at or around my next scheduled change to see how the oil is holding up at my change intervals of 20K and the filter every 10K as I have been doing since I've switched over ?

Any help is much appreciated,
Steve
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
Steve,

If you are using the Amsoil European Formula, I would not exceed 10k miles under any conditions. If you're using the more robust, 5w-40, Premium Diesel Oil (CJ-4/SM rated), you can probably go 15,000 miles if it's mostly highway driving. You certainly can on the older TDI models.

In any event, I'd get one of the Oil Analyzers, Inc kits through Amsoil and have the oil tested. Post the results & we can fine tune the service interval recommendation. You may actually want to use something even thicker than the Amsoil 5w-40 in the PD engine, ie either the 10w-40/AMO or 15w-40/AME. These are 12 TBN (very high detergent), formulations with even higher levels of antiwear additives (ZDDP).

I still consider the 15w-40 to be Amsoils best HD diesel oil, unless you have a newer turbodiesel pickup with a diesel particle filter (DPF) that requires a low ash oil.

TS
 
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roadking00

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Salisbury, NC
TDI
2005.5 Black Jetta (Auto DSG)Pushing 320K
Thanks for the response TS, I responded to your PM ... What numbers in an oil analysis am I looking for in what parameters?
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
I'd look at the iron levels and at the Total Base Number (TBN), as well as the percentage of soot & the viscosity @ 100C. I'd also look at the silicon(dirt) concentration in parts per million (ppm) and the # of fuel dilution. For a PD engine I'd use these limits:

Fe < 60 ppm
TBN > 2.0
Viscosity > 12.5 Cst @ 100C (this lower limit is for a 40wt oil)
Silicon < 15 ppm (most diesel oils contain 4-6 ppm of polymeric silicone, which is an anti-foam additive)
Fuel < 1.0% (this is sometimes a factor if you're running B100, due to the much higher flashpoint of biodiesel vs #2 pump diesel. Roughly +300F, vs +125F)

TS
 
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