new Jetta: gas or diesel?

I’m looking for a VERY reliable, reasonably small car with good cargo capacity. (I'm currently driving a '91 Honda Civic hatchback, which has been great, but is getting old.) I have looked at virtually everything on the market, and so far the Jetta wagon is at the top of the list (provided it is truly reliable).

Now the question is gas or diesel. While I love the fuel economy of the diesel, I only drive 5,000-7,000 miles per year, so is getting a diesel “overkill?” Also, is there a reliability difference between the gas and diesel?

Most importantly perhaps: Is the VW tops in reliability?

(I love this forum, and all you folks are great! I have learned a tremendous amount by browsing around.)

Thanks for any input or suggestions,
MaryL

I love my Diesel but it's definitely not a car for everyone. It's an expensive car if your going to take it to VW for maintenance work. This site has saved me at least $1000 since I bought my car in repairs. Also read this thread. Not trying to discourage you but don't expect a VW to be hassle free. If you have a good VW shop in your area then you might be ok. I would buy another one without even thinking about it since mine has been somewhat hassle free.

I would buy a Diesel for sure. Many different reasons:
1. Fuel economy
2. Reliability
3. Car Insurance
4. Trunk Space (you mentioned that you were looking at the Jetta wagon, even the Jetta sedan has a huge trunk!
5. Styling
6. Tuning

You said that you are in the market for a good reliable car with a good amount of cargo room - You can't go wrong with the Jetta!!

To get an opinion on the gas vs. diesel issue, I contacted a service manager at an Atlanta area VW dealer. He said that a diesel runs best and most efficiently when hot, so it was better for longer commutes or trips. For short trips, such as a 15-20 minute trip to the store, a gas engine is better. So he said it depends on the type of driving you do as to which car you should get.

I'm ignorant about diesels, so do you guys out there agree with the service manager's opinion?

Still wondering,
MaryL

my opinion is that if your tired of your current honda and it's "only" 12 years old, it would be silly for you to get a diesel. You said you only drive 7-8,000 miles per year. So after 10 years you'll only have 80,000 miles on it...will you get tired of it like the honda? A diesel is more for someone who either drives a lot of miles, or keeps cars for a while (over 200k miles).

But to each his own.

MaryL said:
I’m looking for a VERY reliable, reasonably small car with good cargo capacity. (I'm currently driving a '91 Honda Civic hatchback, which has been great, but is getting old.) I have looked at virtually everything on the market, and so far the Jetta wagon is at the top of the list (provided it is truly reliable).

Now the question is gas or diesel. While I love the fuel economy of the diesel, I only drive 5,000-7,000 miles per year, so is getting a diesel “overkill?” Also, is there a reliability difference between the gas and diesel?

Most importantly perhaps: Is the VW tops in reliability?

(I love this forum, and all you folks are great! I have learned a tremendous amount by browsing around.)

Thanks for any input or suggestions,
MaryL

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We seriously considered three cars for a bread and butter 52 mile round trip, 5 days a week. The path is app 85% highway (speeds from 35 mph to INXS of 85) The other 15% is the connectors and bypasses used to get to and from the highway. Monthly mileage is projected at 2.5k-3k. VW Jetta gasser did not even meet the cut list. The top cars were Honda Civic and Toyota Corrolla. Given the TDI engine the Jetta got on the short list. For the mileage you drive I would take any of the two above cars. Forego the VW. I took the chance because I could do a lot of maintenance myself and the fuel mileage is just awesome.

ruking said:
We seriously considered three cars for a bread and butter 52 mile round trip, 5 days a week. The path is app 85% highway (speeds from 35 mph to INXS of 85) The other 15% is the connectors and bypasses used to get to and from the highway. Monthly mileage is projected at 2.5k-3k. VW Jetta gasser did not even meet the cut list. The top cars were Honda Civic and Toyota Corrolla. Given the TDI engine the Jetta got on the short list. For the mileage you drive I would take any of the two above cars. Forego the VW. I took the chance because I could do a lot of maintenance myself and the fuel mileage is just awesome.

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For the original poster, I'd suggest a Toyota Matrix, Pontiac Vibe, or a Scion xB over a Civic or Corolla, since one of her criteria was good cargo space (these three are wagons, so they can handle cargo much better than a Civic or Corolla sedan). Fuel economy should be better than a gasoline Jetta wagon (though not as good as a TDI), and, as Toyotas, these three cars are probably a better bet for reliability than a VW.

MaryL said:
To get an opinion on the gas vs. diesel issue, I contacted a service manager at an Atlanta area VW dealer. He said that a diesel runs best and most efficiently when hot, so it was better for longer commutes or trips. For short trips, such as a 15-20 minute trip to the store, a gas engine is better. So he said it depends on the type of driving you do as to which car you should get.

I'm ignorant about diesels, so do you guys out there agree with the service manager's opinion?

Click to expand...

All engines do better and last longer when they are used so that they get warm. However, diesel engines usually take somewhat longer to warm up than gasoline engines.

What I have calculated is that the break-even point in fuel savings versus initial cost for the TDI option on a VW is between 50,000 and 100,000 miles, depending on local fuel costs and local costs for the TDI option. Someone who drives a low mileage over the lifetime of the vehicle may not reach break-even, or save much, by choosing the TDI option.

MaryL, I'd recommend you keep an eye on diesel prices and availability where you drive. Are there a few good stations that have diesel? Are the prices comparable to gas?

I'm in Tampa, and at my favorite station, diesel is actually a couple of cents lower per gallon than the bottom grade gas.

Also, as previously noted, maintanence can be an issue. If you like turning wrenches, get a TDI and have fun! But if you don't, make sure you know of a good, honest diesel-capable mechanic...you may never, ever need him, but then again, you just might. I think there are several members of this forum in and around Atlanta...you might try to contact them for more info. Hope this offers some help.

Keith

I have seen the ones that you recommend and like the looks and concepts. The problem is that I do not think there are 3-5 year track records on ANY of these models. Civic and or Corrolla of course have at least that.

According to CNN, the Jetta Wqagon TDI has the best resale value of any small car. Ours has been flawless. We save $50 a month in fuel, compared to the CRV it replaced. It feels more solid than anything out there.

According to CNN, the Jetta Wqagon TDI has the best resale value of any small car. Ours has been flawless. We save $50 a month in fuel, compared to the CRV it replaced. It feels more solid than anything out there.

ruking said:
I have seen the ones that you recommend and like the looks and concepts. The problem is that I do not think there are 3-5 year track records on ANY of these models. Civic and or Corrolla of course have at least that.

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The Matrix and Vibe are just Corolla wagons with different styling, introduced in MY2002 (actually earlier than the current Corolla sedan, which came out slightly later as a MY2003). The Scion xB is based on the Echo platform (which came out in MY2000) -- conceptually, it is like an Echo station wagon. The current Civic is from MY2001.

So if you are comfortable recommending the current Civic or Corolla in terms of reliability track record (only about a year for the current design Corolla), I don't see why you wouldn't be comfortable recommending the Matrix, Vibe, or Scion xB.

The good news and the bad news is that OEM's are going from concept to market much quicker. This can be good and it can be bad,time being the ultimate arbitrator. In reality, all one is trying to do is stack the deck in favor of YOU the consumer.

In three to five years, of the person who wants the information, with a yearly 7k miles per year, three to five years represents only 21k- 35k miles. Even Toyotas are guaranteed for 3 yr or 36k.

You bring up the point that one of the models is an echo platform. I have not read good things at all about the echo. So for my .02 cents the echo and the echo platform would not make my hit parade. Corrolla and Civic have historically been good cars, so it would not be as big a stretch to gambit on a new model design for either. Again there is not so much historical data as for the Civic and Corrolla. And sometimes it can be misleading. For example, I got a 1985 Toyota Camry based on the strength of a Consumer Reports review. It turned out to be a big mistake come 5 years and above. I not only dropped about 7 mpg and the dealership could not even begin to remedy, but I also had INXS of 3k in unscheduled maintenance with approximately 1,500 dollars additional being written off to the "secret warranty." So really the tab was 4.5k on a 14k car!!!???. I would have normally chalked it up to somehow getting a small % car with bad luck or as it is called now, lemon but the problems I had were actually widespread, which is what the longitudinal data actually indicated.

Also, as it applies to VW, just a cursory search will tell you that in addition to having to do consistent maintenance (TDI, for our purposes)AND in over 33 years somehow this has not changed too much), the gassers 2.0 and the 1.8 have a lot of concerns (%) percentage wise. Some have include the window regulators ,2.0 and 1.8 burning oil, premature MAF failure, etc, etc.. Not only that but the Jetta has consistently been on the list of worst 5 cars for a while.

I myself have stated here and/or on other posts that I took a "CHANCE" in getting the Jetta TDI, for I felt that for our situation the TDI engine (with 10,000 hour design parameters) in the 12 year VW rust thru frame might be worth the risk. So far after 5 mos and 11k miles it has been quite good, except for faster wear on the tires, front right. I had known beforehand that this was a 5-6 tire rotational procedure instead of a 4 tire procedure. I have been quite fortunate so far or the OEM has accidently got mine right!! So far the TDI engine uses absolutely NO OIL in 11k miles. So in this case I will take it anyway I can get it!

ruking said:
You bring up the point that one of the models is an echo platform. I have not read good things at all about the echo. So for my .02 cents the echo and the echo platform would not make my hit parade.

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What bad things have you heard about the Echo?

Corrolla and Civic have historically been good cars, so it would not be as big a stretch to gambit on a new model design for either. Again there is not so much historical data as for the Civic and Corrolla.

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If you don't like the Echo, I can see that you would hesitate to recommend the Scion xB. On the other hand, if you like the Corolla, why would you hesitate to recommend the Matrix and Vibe, which are essentially just Corolla wagons (and actually have been out slightly longer than the current generation Corolla sedan)?

Well, perhaps using the example of VW will illustrate. Writeups for the VW Jetta are very good (Edmunds.com) etc. However, back end, indicates a high % of problems: such as 1.8, 2.0 oil burning, etc. etc. It has also consistently been on the 5 worst car's list. However, if you get a TDI which is like 6% of the VW JETTA population in the USA, the diesel engine is not at all known for burning oil! So just that fact alone will bypass a huge structural problem. Which is only one major reason why I recommended against a gasser VW. Also against a 2.0 there is roughly a 1-1.3k premium for a TDI engine but against a 1.8 T there is virtually no premium. So to pay a premium for a gasser than has a high % of oil burners is a risk I would not like to take and to have to pay for the increased risk to boot!!??

Conversely for me, I do not have any 1.8 or 2.0 VW Jetta oil burning problems, for I obviously have a non oil burning TDI engine. The other nit noy stuff I can live with; such as shock absorbers NG at 25k-35k, Rear brakes pads and rotors that are NG at 25k-50k. Excessive right front tire wear. The other warranty stuff will hopefully surface within the 4 year or 50,000 mile warranty period. Keep in mind that in Germany the VW Jetta has a one year/12,000 mile warranty. So the implication is that consistent maintenance is a must/given. This is not the expectation here in the states. Hence the poor reliability rating here in the states.

( I am used to 100k mile shock absorbers in a TLC) plus the fact that struts and shocks for a VW cost MORE than Bilstein shocks for a TLC)

So in the ultimate scheme of things this particular product, this 2003 VW Jetta is expected to function as my commute rig, to get 45/49 mpg, with 25-36k year miles and go 550,000 miles with expected scheduled maintenance and hopefully low unscheduled maintenance at roughly 6-7 cents per mile operating costs. So far, its a keeper. Would it be good for her? Given her need to do 7k per year, etc, I doubt it!

Another thing to keep in mind, in the past, I have run a used 1970 VW Beetle 250,000 miles, which was purchased used in 1971 for 1,800 dollars and sold in 1978 for 900 dollars. My perception is that this 2003 VW Jetta is better engineered. So to me the 500,000-550,000 seems infinitely do able.

So the procedure to evaluate, variants of the Toyota and such, should be roughly the same. Obviously each OEM and model will have its specific issues.

VW Jetta drives much better than Hondas and Toyotas: VWs are more solid on the road. Also, VWs come with more security features by default (extras in Honda/Toyotas).

Then, VW Wagon has a better rear visibility than Matrix. Matrix rear visibility is non-existant.

VW Wagon has a huge cargo area, specialy, with the rear seats folded down. Even the sedan has a big trunk. It's also worth notting that, if you search for a cargo car, the high torque of a TDI makes easier to pull a loaded car. And this also means, that fuel economy is even better for a loaded TDI vs loaded Gasser.

Also, VW car body, in my opinion, is stronger than a Honda/Toyota. In case of an accident, with all those SUVs, this is some sort of extra insurance.

And then, VW TDIs seem to be more realiable than VW gassers. There are less moving parts that need attention.

Note: I've driven recent ('02, '03) Echos, Matrixs, Corollas, Subarus, RAV4s... and I feel safer driving a VW than any of those.


Peace,
Sinner

It continues to amaze me how good a XXX digit mph cruiser the TDI continues to be!(with the Euro TDI engine it was made to be an autobahn cruiser) All the while getting 45 mpg! While there are enthusiasts who complain about the suspension, it is very stable at these cruise speeds.

But if I read your post correctly, the need for and use of this capability will probably be slight to non existent. Truthfully, the Corrolla and Civic will be more than up to the task of up to 65-85 mph cruising.

I am guessing that app 6% of VW owners are unhappy or have problematic cars. I am also guessing that the principle of 1 unhappy client tells 10 or so and a happy client might tell 3.